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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga Development
      /  Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
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Everblue 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 22-Nov-2019 11:19:25
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2006
Posts: 634
From: Amigaland

I think MorphOS x86 will be (relatively) more popular than Aros.

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terminills 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 22-Nov-2019 11:24:43
#22 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1385
From: Unknown

@Everblue

Quote:

by Everblue on 22-Nov-2019 6:19:25

I think MorphOS x86 will be (relatively) more popular than Aros.


That very well may be true but also very hard to gauge.

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asymetrix 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 22-Nov-2019 12:49:36
#23 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 846
From: United Kingdom

@thread

Any new system has to be unique and advanced in hardware and software.

For example using Fast Trigonometric functions in hardware, AI, Image Processing processors etc.

Here is some fast maths, can you imagine a Vampire with this ?

http://gruntthepeon.free.fr/ssemath/

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Rose 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 22-Nov-2019 13:02:33
#24 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 653
From: Unknown

@asymetrix

Quote:

asymetrix wrote:
@thread

Any new system has to be unique and advanced in hardware and software.

For example using Fast Trigonometric functions in hardware, AI, Image Processing processors etc.

Here is some fast maths, can you imagine a Vampire with this ?

http://gruntthepeon.free.fr/ssemath/



Yeah, literally 20 years old tech is unique and advanced.

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BigD 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 22-Nov-2019 13:17:56
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5069
From: UK

@Rose

Can anyone bar the lucky few that attended Amiwest (USA) or Amiga34 Show (Germany) actually buy a Vampire Standalone yet? I mean seriously retailers are still taking pre-orders with no price! The computer has been on sale and bundled already so surely the Apollo Team know the price and can talk about supply in the run up to Christmas?!

And we are worried out the third IT revolution?! We struggle with basic marketing and supply and demand never mind advanced electronics

Edit. Neither the V4 nor the Vampire A1200 are listed in the product section of the Apollo website so if you didn't follow the news you wouldn't know they are coming or in the case of the V4 technically here!

Last edited by BigD on 22-Nov-2019 at 01:32 PM.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 22-Nov-2019 13:41:44
#26 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 165
From: Unknown

From developer point of view, native AROS on x86 is worth nothing crap,
that support decade old graphics cards, and even on that old graphics cards AROS drivers are ten times slower than commercial drivers.
Winuae allow to use 3D hardware from host, so 3D is many times faster than on native AROS and work on any 3D card.
The same 3D C code is faster on emulated 68k on Amiga Os in WinUae than on native AROS.
From developer point of view, AROS x86 users should switch to uae.
It will allows us developers to have one 68k binary that work everywhere.

Amiga NG Third Generation should solve problems not preserve problems and add new one like AROS on x86.

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megol 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 22-Nov-2019 16:41:11
#27 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 327
From: Unknown

@Agami

People have burned through much more that $10M in search for a new paradigm, just look at HP's The Machine[sic]. What did that give them? Not much, something that at best combines the practices of today with the nonvolatile memory of yesterday (like core memory).

@asymetrix

From your link: "Of course it is not IEEE compliant"
I can imagine fast IEEE compliant functions but not from the Apollo core. Don't see how fast trigonometric functions would be 1) unique 2) relevant.

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BigD 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 22-Nov-2019 17:17:29
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5069
From: UK

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
Amiga NG Third Generation should solve problems not preserve problems and add new one like AROS on x86.


The Amiga parties did nothing to adapt their IP for the movement to touch / mobile technology. What makes you think there is the vision, money and skill set available to design a new paradigm? Try formulating an abstract in 200 words to try and explain what your 'vision' is and post it on IndieGo or Kickstarter if you want to try and lead us to a new dawn. Otherwise, as others have suggested go and do some coding (every little helps).

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kolla 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 22-Nov-2019 19:24:10
#29 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1367
From: Trondheim, Norway

Which amigoid TCP stacks support getaddrinfo and getnameinfo?

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sTix 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 22-Nov-2019 19:32:37
#30 ]
Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2003
Posts: 80
From: Lund, Sweden

@kolla

Quote:
Which amigoid TCP stacks support getaddrinfo and getnameinfo?


AROS hosted

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wawa 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 22-Nov-2019 19:33:24
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6243
From: Unknown

as a general remark, this thread should rather be called:
does is pay to answer to "worth nothing crap"?

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Argo 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 22-Nov-2019 20:06:53
#32 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 306
From: St. Lawrence Co., NY, USA

@Everblue

Quote:

Everblue wrote:
I think MorphOS x86 will be (relatively) more popular than Aros.



In Germany

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wawa 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 22-Nov-2019 20:49:27
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6243
From: Unknown

@Argo

Quote:
@Everblue

Quote:

Everblue wrote:
I think MorphOS x86 will be (relatively) more popular than Aros.

In Germany


whatever the expectations, i dont remember they have been proven right, but rather been a result of dreaming and hoping.

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amigang 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 22-Nov-2019 21:29:16
#34 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1471
From: Cheshire, England

one thing Im amazed by is how many ways have been explored by this community!

if you want an open source amiga like system..aros

if you want a PPC official solution...amigaos 4

if you want a PPC & soon x86 unofficial solution...morphos

if you like the retro but want small fixs/updates....amigaos3.2 / vampire / fpga amigas

if you just want the classic...emulation/real deal machine recapped etc

Pretty much every idea of what could be a Next Gen / third way Amiga solution has been explored, yes it unfortunate because of the splits and just size of the community no one solution is perfect and need more resources/work but I would just suggest which everyone is closest to what you want support its efforts, it great that we have so many choices.

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fishy_fis 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 23-Nov-2019 7:30:46
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1865
From: Australia

@ppcamiga1

You not so stupid as to think you're anything but transparent surely?
No-one who isnt functionally retarded is *THAT* stupid.

Also, have you contributed anything? Anything at all? An iota of anything?

Additionally, no-one cares what you think. *NO-ONE*. Not a single person. It simply doesnt matter what you think others should do with their time no matter how many times you repeat it.

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BigD 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 23-Nov-2019 7:49:53
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5069
From: UK

@fishy_fis

I think that's a bit harsh but yes unless he's prepared to spearhead his vision he should not expect the likes of Trevor Dickinson to just get on board because of some epiphany of perfect logic!

He should but his money, coding skills and time / energy where his mouth is or just sit back and enjoy the ride IMHO! However, his point of view is still valid just not as influencial as he thinks it should be!

Last edited by BigD on 23-Nov-2019 at 07:50 AM.

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megol 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 23-Nov-2019 11:42:29
#37 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 327
From: Unknown

@amigang

I'd argue that a true next generation haven't even been attempted yet! MorphOS could be seen as the starting point for an attempt however they still remain in the old generation by not changing the AOS concept enough to be called modern. It's all retro and it's still limited by a 80's home computer design.

Look on how other operating systems got next generation systems: Microsoft took their cooperative multitasking 16bit DOS graphics shell as inspiration to create a modern portable multitasking and multiprocessing system in the form of Windows NT, they kept backwards compatibility while improving everything. Apple (after several failed attempts) moved from their almost library-OS cooperative multitasking (at best) thingy onto a completely new platform while keeping backwards compatibility.

I have some hope that MorphOS could indeed morph into a more modern system perhaps pushed by changes necessary by an AMD64 transition.

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bison 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 23-Nov-2019 16:31:18
#38 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1499
From: N-Space

@megol

Quote:
I'd argue that a true next generation haven't even been attempted yet!

My question: is it even possible to have a true next generation Amiga? If it is updated to the point of being considered modern, then it will loose most of what made it an Amiga in the first place. At this point Amiga is probably an archaism.

A modern OS could be designed (or borrowed!) that has a few "Amigaisms" in the UI, and emulation for old software, but maybe that's as far as it can go.

Last edited by bison on 23-Nov-2019 at 04:31 PM.

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utri007 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 23-Nov-2019 18:41:33
#39 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Aug-2003
Posts: 977
From: United States of Europe

I think that is is delusional to imagine that x86 would change anything. I think that is delusional to imagine, that Amiga OS would be anything more (or less) than hobby OS.

What would need tot get Amiga OS to mainstream again? few miljard euros and then it woun't matter what technics it uses.



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megol 
Re: Amiga NG Third Generation - a viable way
Posted on 23-Nov-2019 19:44:35
#40 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 327
From: Unknown

@bison

I don't really agree with that but all parts of the system have to be changed and some parts replaced completely. There are many small parts that can keep much of the feeling of Amiga OS in a more modern system, from something as simple as named volumes instead of mount directories or drive letters, a common scripting subsystem, named screens etc. Combine that with simplicity and configurability for the end user and let the user be in command of their own machine.
Simplicity with (for the time) power and flexibility are to me the most important part of the OS worth keeping.

Don't really want to have a workbench workalike as part of a modern system BTW, the UI is IMHO part of what would have to be changed drastically or replaced.

@utri007

Don't think going to x86/AMD64 will change anything in itself with the exception of getting access to powerful hardware but the changes required for a port makes for an nice point changing to a more modern design. That's assuming the port isn't simply a PPC/68k port with some native code.
And I absolutely don't think anything Amiga will ever reach mainstream - but would that be required to carve out a niche much larger than the current one?

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