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      /  Big potential for Amiga
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BigD 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 22:59:19
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5244
From: UK

@10MARC

Shouldn't the Armiga or Minimig have been the mass market product? Were marketing and bundled games the only things missing?

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SHADES 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 1-Apr-2020 1:55:13
#22 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 652
From: Melbourne

ealm wrote:
Quote:
Moving hardware platform and evolving is just PPC/AOS4 all over, but would work out even worse a second time after all these years and with an ever smaller fan base. Keeping up with time is not realistic for the Amiga. What is realistic though is to do the best of what we already have and package it in an attractive format for any nostalgics and geeks.

It wouldn't take that much, and with enough quantities it wouldn't have to be too expensive, to do an A600-like box for the Vampire standalone. On top of that it justs needs tweaking and packaging to make it an attractive product, easy to get started with.


@ealm

I don't agree with this point.

The prohibitive costs associated with current CPU architecture dictate that new users taking up the platform will be very slow if any at all. That can only hurt development.

Using available ARM designs opens the door to low-cost computing. Additional functions like an FGPA custom chipset can also be done if wanted however, graphics and high-speed I/O are all mostly taken care of with most SoC using ARM.

Last edited by SHADES on 01-Apr-2020 at 01:58 AM.
Last edited by SHADES on 01-Apr-2020 at 01:57 AM.

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SHADES 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 1-Apr-2020 1:56:58
#23 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 652
From: Melbourne

@OneTimer1

Well, there's plenty of news about it if you look.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/03/17/how-apples-move-to-an-arm-mac-is-going-to-be-a-bumpy-road-for-some

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AmigaMac 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 1-Apr-2020 2:37:50
#24 ]
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Joined: 26-Oct-2002
Posts: 1027
From: 3rd Rock from the Sun!

@ealm

I totally agree with pretty much everything you said!

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fishy_fis 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 1-Apr-2020 2:52:56
#25 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1890
From: Australia

@SHADES

Given the date of the article you linked to Im not sure you made the point you intended :P

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 2-Apr-2020 2:29:29
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2203
From: Ft. Collins, Colorado, USA

@ealm

Maybe once the Apollo core is on a complete 1.5 GHz ASIC we can migrate everybody to that. Of course it'll need AmigaOS 5 or an AROS solution but for the price of FPGA chips it's a bit daunting for a 100 MHz solution.

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SHADES 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 2-Apr-2020 5:24:51
#27 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 652
From: Melbourne

@fishy_fis

There's plenty online about it.
Google is your friend.

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ealm 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 2-Apr-2020 9:32:43
#28 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2003
Posts: 112
From: Unknown

@Samurai_Crow

Quote:
for the price of FPGA chips it's a bit daunting for a 100 MHz solution


Maybe I'm missing something, but as for as a I can tell the Vampire chip has twice the performance of the fastest 68060 CPU. Plus comes with SAGA, HDMI port, SD-card reader, modern sound chip etc.

Seems to me Vampire is both faster and way cheaper than the other existing solutions. PLUS it keeps evolving with software updates due to the nature of FPGA.

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AmigaOldskooler 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 2-Apr-2020 9:48:26
#29 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2015
Posts: 172
From: Unknown

@ealm

I think this project (Amiga X) looked quite cool when it was announced:

https://vintageisthenewold.com/emubees-amiga-x-project-aims-capture-the-spirit-of-commodores-classic-computing-line/

There you had the case etc., and a nice front-end for launching games etc.

You can read more about why the project was stopped here:

https://www.newamiga.com/

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ealm 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 2-Apr-2020 10:18:02
#30 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2003
Posts: 112
From: Unknown

@AmigaOldskooler

Interesting! However it doesn't seem like the project is "stopped", rather slowed down considerably due to IP discussions. I'd be happy to run that software, but I wouldn't want to buy a new machine just to emulate the Amiga when I already have several capable of doing it (TV-boxes, computers, phones and tablets).

If I'd buy new Amiga hardware it has to be a classic looking Amiga with 68k compatible hardware. At the moment I'm considering picking an A600 and a Vampire card up, because that's as close as I can get right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S3B8a8N83k

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 2-Apr-2020 10:37:22
#31 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 209
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

@SHADES

Quote:

SHADES wrote:
@fishy_fis

There's plenty online about it.
Google is your friend.


Dearest SHADES!

Google certainly might be your friend,
but with this attitude, it's bound to be your only friend! :o) ;-P


Sent from my ornate, sapphire-encrusted Nokia N95,
MEGA_RJ_MICAL, Esquire

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OneTimer1 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 2-Apr-2020 19:13:10
#32 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 584
From: Unknown

Quote:

AmigaOldskooler wrote:

I think this project (Amiga X) looked quite cool when it was announced:

There you had the case etc., and a nice front-end for launching games etc.


They are using a case that looks much like an Amiga power supply, probably with an RaspberryPI like board, some games should be pre installed, Amiga emulation should be done with UAE.

So much the same like you can have today, I don't know if the Amiga keyboard will be a part of the standard package. A custom made keyboard will cost more than a RaspberryPI with power supply.

They are just one (of many) small companies or groups who try to revive something Amiga related, here is someone else: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/armiga-project#/

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 02-Apr-2020 at 07:30 PM.

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SHADES 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 2-Apr-2020 21:52:30
#33 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 652
From: Melbourne

@ealm

Quote:

ealm wrote:
@Samurai_Crow

Quote:
for the price of FPGA chips it's a bit daunting for a 100 MHz solution


Maybe I'm missing something, but as for as a I can tell the Vampire chip has twice the performance of the fastest 68060 CPU. Plus comes with SAGA, HDMI port, SD-card reader, modern sound chip etc.

Seems to me Vampire is both faster and way cheaper than the other existing solutions. PLUS it keeps evolving with software updates due to the nature of FPGA.


Vampire is like around $500 euro buy in for that 100MHz
A Pi is $50 and has FAR better graphics and I/O

Imagine if the OS ran native on that SoC. You want less, native graphics? just emulate them or slap a FPGA on a Pi board. Got to be less than 500 euro.

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SHADES 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 2-Apr-2020 21:54:15
#34 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 652
From: Melbourne

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Quote:

MEGA_RJ_MICAL wrote:
@SHADES

Dearest SHADES!

Google certainly might be your friend,
but with this attitude, it's bound to be your only friend! :o) ;-P


Sent from my ornate, sapphire-encrusted Nokia N95,
MEGA_RJ_MICAL, Esquire

I already provided one article, if you're interested, there's a ton of them talkinag about it.
Honestly, if that's the attitude, humanity is probably going to remain stupid

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SHADES 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 2-Apr-2020 21:58:28
#35 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 652
From: Melbourne

@AmigaOldskooler

Quote:

AmigaOldskooler wrote:
@ealm

I think this project (Amiga X) looked quite cool when it was announced:

https://vintageisthenewold.com/emubees-amiga-x-project-aims-capture-the-spirit-of-commodores-classic-computing-line/

There you had the case etc., and a nice front-end for launching games etc.

You can read more about why the project was stopped here:

https://www.newamiga.com/


OK.
Fine.
I love this. It looks so good. I will even draw an ASCII heart. ❤

I also love the idea of a new AMIGA like the new X-Box fridge look with an external keyboard and tank mouse, in white of course.

Love that AMIGA coloured check too.

Last edited by SHADES on 02-Apr-2020 at 10:01 PM.

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ealm 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 2-Apr-2020 23:02:42
#36 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2003
Posts: 112
From: Unknown

@SHADES

Quote:
Vampire is like around $500 euro buy in for that 100MHz A Pi is $50 and has FAR better graphics and I/O


You can get a faster PC as well for that money. But not "better" since it's another architecture. I already have a PC which is much faster then a Pi so why would I buy a Pi for emulation?

Vampire operates like m68k and you can't get anything else 68k as fast without resorting to emulation. And to be honest you cannot really make use of more power on a classic amiga anyway.

Last edited by ealm on 02-Apr-2020 at 11:05 PM.

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 2-Apr-2020 23:42:40
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2203
From: Ft. Collins, Colorado, USA

@ealm

I guess the point is that there are no catch-all solutions. I think having an Amiga that's as fast as a 100 MHz Core2 Solo is a great idea but not worth $500.

I have an 800 MHz G3 PPC in my Micro AmigaOne series and it's already almost worthless because it has only 256 MB RAM and 32 MB video RAM with a dedicated Radeon 7000 GPU. I also bought a pair of G4 Mac Minis and stole the PSU of a Core2 Duo to make one of them run MorphOS 3.13 for $50 USD.

None of them run the same software as the others. If AmigaOS 5 ever comes out it'll need a bytecode compiler just to make software run on all of them. AmigaDE, here we go again.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 2-Apr-2020 23:58:31
#38 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 209
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

@SHADES

Quote:

SHADES wrote:
@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Quote:

MEGA_RJ_MICAL wrote:
@SHADES

Dearest SHADES!

Google certainly might be your friend,
but with this attitude, it's bound to be your only friend! :o) ;-P


Sent from my ornate, sapphire-encrusted Nokia N95,
MEGA_RJ_MICAL, Esquire

I already provided one article, if you're interested, there's a ton of them talkinag about it.
Honestly, if that's the attitude, humanity is probably going to remain stupid



I REST MY CASE


VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR


MRJM

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SHADES 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 3-Apr-2020 1:20:21
#39 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 652
From: Melbourne

@ealm

Quote:

ealm wrote:
@SHADES

[quote]
You can get a faster PC as well for that money. But not "better" since it's another architecture. I already have a PC which is much faster then a Pi so why would I buy a Pi for emulation?

Vampire operates like m68k and you can't get anything else 68k as fast without resorting to emulation. And to be honest you cannot really make use of more power on a classic amiga anyway.


That's why I'm suggesting a port to ARM. ??????
$500 euro is not cheap.

Why can't you make use of more power on a classic Amiga? is that serious?

- Real-time multi-track audio
- AAC/Opus/x.264/265/OpenMedia
- Video editing
- Youtube?
- LHA and compression
- Copying files locally or over a network
- Fast Internet access
- Anytype of networking with other computers in 100Mbit or gigabit or more.
- Skype type access?
- Games that are't locked into 80s graphics
- The use of newer GPUs that go beyond a Voodoo?
- NVMe/SSD
- USB3x ??
- More memory above 128MB??

-Who wouldn't want a classic Amiga that could do all that and much more.

A Pi type design, could and the OS would fly if running native.

Emulation is not going to get new buy-in. They just use a PC and WinUAE.
Vampire is nice but doesn't go far enough for the expense.
Nextgen PPC is too expensive, even for design.
PC x86 is still more costly than ARM.

So, while I agree, the Amiga has some possible big potential, it's not in the current state and arcitecture chosen.
Time for a change, like Apple is doing to ARM and has done in the past with 68k and PPC.

Last edited by SHADES on 03-Apr-2020 at 01:36 AM.
Last edited by SHADES on 03-Apr-2020 at 01:35 AM.
Last edited by SHADES on 03-Apr-2020 at 01:30 AM.
Last edited by SHADES on 03-Apr-2020 at 01:24 AM.
Last edited by SHADES on 03-Apr-2020 at 01:21 AM.
Last edited by SHADES on 03-Apr-2020 at 01:20 AM.

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Signal 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 3-Apr-2020 16:27:54
#40 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 664
From: USA

@SHADES

Quote:

Time for a change, like Apple is doing to ARM and has done in the past with 68k and PPC.


Yes, and Apple will first release a line of AppleARM computers and then follow up with SuperARM Apples, then SuperDuperARM over the next 7 years before they drop ARM all together in favor the the next hot chip.

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