@amigang

I'm actually kind of baffled about your obsession to create a narrative that "this is just a mobile CPU", that ARM is all the same, etc, that it should have been cheap as hell because it's just ARM, and whatnot.

Apples iPhone/iPad CPU's became on par with Intel Core-i7 laptops several years ago. They were on par with Intels desktop offerings for at least a year. They just happened to put them in phones and iPads, to a growing crowd's amaze. It has obviously been a long road and it's the result of enduring persistent work for Apple to get to this point. It's not something that just happened.

Four high performance CPU cores plus another four energy efficient CPU cores. Lots of other special purpose cores. And I don't think there is any reason not to believe that the new, integrated GPU will compete very well with any Intel/AMD offerings. Fast and low latency RAM being tightly integrated. And the key ingredient is most certainly the custom fabric that connects everything, most certainly with an enormous bandwidth that goes beyond the traditional "PC" model that has been the standard since forever.

The M1 is Apple's first own Laptop class CPU. 16 billion transistors running at 3.2GHz. Their own marketing numbers (that actually tends to be quite accurate) suggests up to 2x raw CPU performance compared to the fastest commercially available Intel/AMD based Laptops and that it matches peak PC performance while only using 25% of the power. And that means: "Comparison made against latest‑generation high‑performance notebooks commercially available at the time of testing [October 2020]". In other words - not a Chromebook. Instead more in the realms of current full-blown desktop x64 CPU's, but at a fraction of the energy consumption compared to x64 Laptops. The GPU is also claimed to be 2x as fast as Intel/AMD, while using 33% of the power.

I'm sure there will be plenty of tests from plenty of sources in just a week from now. And I wouldn't be surprised if the conclusion is that this is a solid upgrade to x64 offerings rather than the sad compromise that you want it to be. Especially when running native software.

I think this is one of the most interesting things that has happened to computing in many years. Can't wait to see their first take on a desktop class CPU. It will probably have PCI Express 5.0 etc.

@cdimauro

Quote:

Its microkernel, bounded to the chipset, is also the reason why the Amiga platform wasn't competitive anymore, since other o.ses./platforms were able to provide much more solid/stable/future-oriented environments and big technology progresses.

I agree but.. if you want to support powerful standard hardware you need drivers and due closed source hardware simply you can't.
you have to pay as example amd/nvidia to develop driver for amiga platform, the same is valid for any sound card or storage expansion/raid, or wifi card.
It don't seems to me a viable way so the other route is to develop hardware and drivers yourself.
You can make it happen with fpga chips reprogramming them as gfx/sound/dsp/blitter/etc.. chips or you can go with open source projects like Arm RPi or Power BlackBird and similars, in all these projects hardware is open from firmware to drives and all is well documented and supported by vendors and community.

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I don't understand why we have to waste transistors too on emulating only the chipset, and even more for an "AGANG" which has zero software for it (and even if some is developed, you'll count it in the fingers of your hands). (Win|E)UAE running on any existing hardware platform should be enough for enjoying the old binaries (games, applications).

Again I agree.
The AGA/AGANG chipset example was related to vampire project because that board want be a modern powerful replacement of an old a1200.
I had preferred a quad core arm cpu and completely new and future proof custom fpga chipset, able to run apps and games at least at 720p maintaining aga compatibility

As said 68k emulation could be has done via software recompiling binaries for arm, 'n' times faster than actual 68080 fpga.

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@TRIPOS



https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/apples-m1-based-macbook-air-benchmarked.274554/page-4#post-4393875

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@Hammer
Posting something wrong from Monday while just a few posts later in the same thread real data is available? I don't get it. You had the information when you posted this including a link to the thread.

Just to save others some time: Here are the real numbers...





(Single core: 1500 / multi-core: 7800)

Source:
Anandtech

@ASiegel

Possibly the most impressive thing of all is Rosetta 2 outperforming Intel-based Macs running code natively. Bonkers.

@clebin

Well, the Mac Mini M1 keeping up with a 6,000 USD 2019 Mac Pro may be more impressive. Admittedly, software compilation could be considered a niche application in the grand scheme of things but still.

Last edited by ASiegel on 18-Nov-2020 at 09:39 AM.

@ASiegel

Really much better than any reasonable expectation!
This is the reason why I never would like AmigaOS to swap for x86 arch.
Ancient and inefficient it survived only due big investments in miniaturizing fab process, world needs to go ahead and say bye bye x86 asap.

My2cents.

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AmigaOS4.1 fe - MorphOS - Debian 9 Jessie

@Fl@sh

The M1 is great, but a lot of people are also impressed with the AMD 4800U, also on 15W. But the M1 has offcourse on die memory so not really comparable, but also not expandible.

Last edited by bennymee on 18-Nov-2020 at 01:55 PM.

@Fl@sh

Quote:

This is the reason why I never would like AmigaOS to swap for x86 arch. Ancient and inefficient it survived only due big investments in miniaturizing fab process, world needs to go ahead and say bye bye x86 asap.

Please note that the M1 is Apple-exclusive technology.

Unless you are proposing to port your favourite niche operating system to those newly introduced Apple brand computers with M1 chips, there is absolutely no viable alternative to AMD64-compatible processors if you are looking for competitive desktop performance at affordable prices.

In fact, even though the M1 is obviously quite good, it is only fair to point out that you can buy a 16 inch Magicbook Pro with an AMD Ryzen 5 4600H CPU for a mere 699 EUR (incl. VAT), which is a whopping 400 EUR cheaper than an entry-level Apple Macbook Air, features a much bigger screen and gets a better multi-core score in Cinebench 23 (thanks to its 6 cores).

@ASiegel

I was referring to second part thread's title "..the end of x86" focusing not on apple m1 implementation but on ARM general cpus.
Apple is the first to build a cpu targeted for desktop in a serious way.
Similar results could be archived even by Qualcomm/Samsung moving focus from smartphone to desktop market, with higher TDP.

I guess next company to make a great arm desktop cpu will be Nvidia for obvious reasons..

Anyway if ever need a new notebook tomorrow, without any doubt I'll choose a Mac.

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AmigaOS4.1 fe - MorphOS - Debian 9 Jessie

@ASiegel

It’s amazing what reasonably priced products companies can bring to market when they have minimal R&D costs because they copy and ‘borrow’ IP, PCB schematics and reimplement all the design language from their competitors! In the western world those practises would land them in court and bankrupt!

MagicBook Pro = investment in a company that thinks IP is irrelevant

Last edited by BigD on 19-Nov-2020 at 08:54 AM.

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@BigD

Quote:

It’s amazing what reasonably priced products companies can bring to market when they have minimal R&D costs because they copy and ‘borrow’ IP, PCB schematics and reimplement all the design language from their competitors!

First of all, Apple are known to proactively protect their IP if they believe a competitor violated them. The laptop I referenced is being sold buy a billion dollar company that used to be part of the even bigger HUAWEI. The fact that Apple have not sued them might be of interest to you.

As for copying design language or features, you might want to do some more research on Apple who do plenty of copying themselves.

Also, I do not blame you for not knowing this, but many high-priced "name-brand" computers and other electronics devices are in fact purely and solely designed and developed in Asia. Western companies will review samples offered by Asian suppliers and then merely agree to put their name on it and use their existing sales and support channels. (Feel free to visit the inventec website where you will find pictures of premium and mid-price laptops sold by HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc.)

The idea that vendors in certain Asian countries would need to "steal" technology to be able to create competitive consumer electronics devices is very much outdated.

Mind you, I do not own the Magicbook Pro nor any other Huawai/Honor products. I only gave this example because, based on reviews I happened to see, it appears to be at least somewhat comparable (low fan noise, good display brightness, decent battery life, low weight and thickness). There are even cheaper "bargain bin" laptops that are faster than an M1-equipped Macbook AIr in Cinebench but they are usually of poor quality.

@ASiegel

Quote:

features a much bigger screen

For me that is a con and not a pro, I even find 13" annoyingly large.

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@ASiegel

Quote:

In fact, even though the M1 is obviously quite good, it is only fair to point out that you can buy a 16 inch Magicbook Pro with an AMD Ryzen 5 4600H CPU for a mere 699 EUR (incl. VAT), which is a whopping 400 EUR cheaper than an entry-level Apple Macbook Air, features a much bigger screen and gets a better multi-core score in Cinebench 23 (thanks to its 6 cores).

Thats like comparing a 911 to Ford Mustang and saying that is better cos it got more horsepower and is cheaper......

The MacBook Air is lighter will run without any fan longer on battery.

The only official site I found states (in hilarious "german") that it is limited to 16GB (same as the Air) and 512GB SSD (the Air can be pushed to 2TB) without any mention of it being user upgradable.

But all in all it is just the wrong HW for a fair comparison.

Last edited by Kronos on 19-Nov-2020 at 12:36 PM.

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@Kolla
Quote:

For me that is a con and not a pro, I even find 13" annoyingly large.

Good for you. I mentioned the size as a bonus since Apple charge a hefty premium for all their larger iPad (Pros), iMacs and Macbook Pros so they clearly think bigger screens provide added value to consumers thus justify higher prices.

@Kronos
Quote:

Thats like comparing a 911 to Ford Mustang and saying that is better cos it got more horsepower and is cheaper......

That is not what I said though.

Fl@sh claimed that the Apple silicon proves that "x86" is technically inferior garbage and wholly unsuitable as an architecture target for "AmigaOS" (tm)(r).

I pointed out that you can actually buy affordable hardware that is at least in the same ballbark with regard to performance - at least when handling the type of general purpose computing tasks that you could do with the type of software that is currently available or could be reasonably expected to become available on "AmigaOS" (tm)(r).

Quote:

But all in all it is just the wrong HW for a fair comparison.

For nitpickers, there is no "right hardware" for a "fair comparison" unless it also runs MacOS, which usually limits you to Apple brand hardware in the first place. I am sure M1 Macs also run iPad apps so much better than AMD64 Mac hardware would via a hypothetical emulation.

None of this matters when you are discussing the suitability of processor architectures with regard to specific niche operating systems though.

The reality is that alternative operating systems have never run nearly as smoothly on Intel Macs as MacOS did. For instance, Windows and Linux offer significantly reduced battery life on Macs. I have no expectation that this will change with these new ARM machines. When you discuss Apple hardware as hardware targets for alternative operating systems, this is certainly something to be aware of.

@all

Interesting read, maybe.

https://wccftech.com/why-apple-m1-single-core-comparisons-are-fundamentally-flawed-with-benchmarks/

@bennymee

Quote:

bennymee wrote: @all Interesting read, maybe. https://wccftech.com/why-apple-m1-single-core-comparisons-are-fundamentally-flawed-with-benchmarks/

Wccftech - It's like The Sun and News of the world started a tech site, only less reliable. Sometimes they accidentally publish something worth of reading (usually copy paste from someone with a clue) but this ain't one of those.