@NutsAboutAmiga

Dear friend NutsAboutAmiga,

what is missing is that this is not how things work out there, in the real world. It is perhaps how it works in the bible, in a videogame, in the explanation mom and dad would give to a 5 years old. Im the real world there are clauses, penalties, courts of law that would put the house for public auction and pay you back with the proceedings of said auction.

@David Doyle, if you are out there looking at us from your heavenly palace of light: this Amigaworld you originally created, really makes me wonder how all these guys function out there, with their childlike superficial understanding of basic law, economy, not to mention complete lack of common sense.

Maybe, oh maybe, such is the lure of Amiga: a machine for the dysfunctionals. For the people who are either uniquely talented, or brain damaged: both, in different ways, outcasts.

Oh and by the way, @ppcamiga1: to enact some biblical law, let's go "an eye for eye". My friend, if I (not Franko) am insane, then I still cherish this flaw more than the flaw of being a retarded simpleton as you are.

With love,
MEGA_RJ_MICAL

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@matthey

Quote:

Please show that selfishness even exists in this case.

The only sane course of action in such a small market is to settle out of court. An armchair lawyer could deduce that Cloanto is owed a license fee for OS3.1.4 development / sales and Cloanto and Hyperion should draw up 'rules of engagment' so that they are not competing in the same market sectors. Cloanto could make money from licensing and emulation and Hyperion from AmigaOS. Hyperion SHOULD be made to pay for the right to develop for 68k rather than PPC and should be made to relinquish AmigaOS 4.x unless they continue to develop it! Yes, Hyperion has more lose but they also have more to lose in the court of public opinion! They are on the back foot, refuse to engage with the offer of a Stephen Jones interview and are heavily in debt! If they are no longer interested in developing OS 4.x then they should sell it to A-EON to help service their debt!

Quote:

A child who has gone without food or other necessities is likely more reluctant to share than one who has had everything given to them and expects more.

That is simply not true. It is the habit of doing something that is taught prior to the understanding of why you should do it. An only child is likely to experience a greater aversion to sharing simply because they haven't had to unless a friend comes over for a play date.

A child with less will generally be happy with less (obviously not to the point of poverty or squalour) because that is their frame of reference. Until they start to be influenced by toy adverts and seeing what their friends have etc they can be content without an iPad for example but there is ALWAYS the temptation NOT to share the drawing pad that they do have with their siblings!

A sense of entitlement will come from rich, 'little emperor' only-children who have never been told 'no'. That is why China (without the influence of the Chinese House Churches) is in danger of becoming very selfish and self-serving because the upcoming generation has NEVER been told no as children and will happily see the world burn as long as they have a freshly roasted pangolin on their plate!

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

pretty simple, you ask some to build you a house, instead of paying for the work, you move in say the house is yours, is the house yours?

not quite how it happened, as Kmos/investors did pay £5million I think for Amiga rights from Gateway, if I remember correctly, and i beleive they paid £7,000 to Hyperion twice through out the mess, so it more like

You ask someone to build you a house, with all the equipment, materials and land rights all paid for by you, but dont pay for the work so the builders move in and have the house. is that fair?

lets face it, it just a mess.

Last edited by amigang on 26-Jul-2020 at 10:49 AM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Is pretty simple, you ask some to build you a house, instead of paying for the work, you move in say the house is yours, is the house yours? Or is there something missing in this transaction?

The problem with the house metaphor is that it doesn't take intellectual property rights into consideration, which is a big factor in the current (and seemingly unending) Amiga disputes.

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@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

So you say that you are not franko. Prove it.
your act exactly as this troll.

@amigang

AInc also dont pay HP.
AInc lie to Hyperion that they AInc have Amiga Os source code.
AInc lie to Hyperion about state of Amiga Os source code.
Hyperion have to pay AInc unpayed bills to get Amiga Os source code.
AInc also dont pay Hyperion for work on 3D for AmigaDE.

AInc get what they deserve.

They should not order work for which they don't want to pay.

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 26-Jul-2020 at 06:00 PM.

Quote:

bison wrote: The problem with the house metaphor is that it doesn't take intellectual property rights into consideration, which is a big factor in the current (and seemingly unending) Amiga disputes.

I don't see the problem. IP is property like the house is property in the metaphor. I would change the metaphor a little even though it is still not perfect.

Amiga owned a house and wanted to add a second floor so contracted Hyperion to add one. Hyperion wasn't given the correct condition of the house or even the correct address which they had to find themselves. The house was older and needed costly improvements before the second floor could be added. Amiga ran out of money and couldn't pay Hyperion resulting in a lawsuit. Without money, Amiga settled allowing Hyperion to use the second floor. Hyperion then notices that the first floor has been vacated and starts fixing it up and using it as well. The house is then sold to another owner.

@matthey

Quote:

Hyperion then notices that the first floor has been vacated and starts fixing it up and using it as well.

Which is why they are now in court.

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@matthey

And AInc oblige that will not use first floor only basement.
And also that first floor will be not used by any new owner of the house.

@BigD

Quote:

The only sane course of action in such a small market is to settle out of court.

Yes and also the only sane course is most probably the one hidden in the latin message of Cloantos website.

one umbrella coorporation, where each section serves a part of the market. The income of the various sections is split, so every section gets a piece of the pie. I can not think of many downsides, in fact this is what most corporations strive to achieve in the real world. And truly most succefull corporations -in this implementation of the "economy"- have achieved exactly this.

Ben Hermanns could then continue doing what he does best. Granted there might maybe be some stall in the first years, but if Amiga gets a little bigger market share (as a retro platform or however) there will be legal issues coming to them. Besides this, there migth be a bunch of fair legal contract to draft and stipulate with game developers intended for games which could be bundled to a presumable "classic retro game console".

A monopoly would have such a better overwiew of the available resources and where to channel them.. R&D, WinUAE, macUAE, AmigaOS NG, zombie&bloodsucker cards, CG and NG machines.

And in a few years we could buy out µSoft and intel (which is dead anyway, now that the fruits are going melusdomesticaSi)

Quote:

An armchair lawyer could deduce that

I need a new armchair. I would deduce an armchair lawyer has at least one to give away for free.

Quote:

They are on the back foot, refuse to engage with the offer of a Stephen Jones interview and are heavily in debt! If they are no longer interested in developing OS 4.x then they should sell it to A-EON to help service their debt!

Yes, I am sure an armchair lawyer from Belgium knows 1000 tricks to just dissolve a company heavily in debt, and most importantly with no repercussions for himself or others involved. In Belgium it HAS TO BE as easy as it is in the UK and in the rest of the world!
I mean, in the worst case scenario, Hyperion could just sell every debt they have to Trevor, and be done..
Easy peasy lemon squeezy!
Why didn't I think of it two and half years ago when all could stll be saved! I'll have to send Trevor a email.. He could then just use the "t" to write his name and use a "deb" install on every machine he sells and off we go to eliminate all the outstanding financial obligations!!
G-E-N-I-O-U-S! I tell ya, g-e-n-i-o-u-s!

Peace!

@Amigo1

Quote:

Ben Hermanns could then continue doing what he does best.

You mean legal shenanigans, living off contract loopholes, threatening people with lawsuits, screwing business partners, acquiring control by diluting shareholders, etc?

No, I truly wish he wouldn't continue doing that.

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@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: @MEGA_RJ_MICAL So you say that you are not franko. Prove it. your act exactly as this troll.

how on earth is he going to prove that, I wonder!

And even if he is, remember, Franko is not on the first place in the list of the most evil villains blameworthy of the demise of the Amiga!!!

I came to see, that not any of RJ_MEGA_MICAL ups MEGA_RJ_MICAL posts made this a worse place.

Aren't we all here to just have fun?

I realized Franko-MEGA-RJ-MICAL-WhoEverHidesBehindAnThatsWhatThey-Are-For-AvatarNickname is here for fun too.

There are no more hidden agendas.

His messages are sometimes funny to read, sometimes like a splint in a barefoot walking human's foot. As are most posts, of all of us.
Remove the splint and realize that the one single hop out of pain made you leap over a pile of dog crap.

@Trixie

Quote:

Trixie wrote: @Amigo1 Quote: Ben Hermanns could then continue doing what he does best. You mean legal shenanigans, living off contract loopholes, threatening people with lawsuits, screwing business partners, acquiring control by diluting shareholders, etc? No, I truly wish he wouldn't continue doing that.

I can only build up my opinion by puzzling together what floats on the forums. I have not taken the time to read all the legal documents Number6 has so diligently put together.

Based on what one can be read on fora, I am not assuming it is a picture one can draw true conclusions from. That's my opinion.

But if it really is the way you describe it, then I am all your opinion and I wish the same.

If that is the case tho, I ask myself why. I can come up with a couple of more acceptable and conspiracy theories, but in the end, they all appear so absurd to me.

I don't know much about international corporate law, besides what my ex-girlfriend used to tell me. It was not international corporate law she worked on, but even on the national level, the interweavement, restrictions, implications were so weird, I wonder why humans apparently walk towards complicating thins instead of a simplification.


Edit: type

Last edited by Amigo1 on 27-Jul-2020 at 09:31 AM.

@Amigo1

Quote:

Yes, I am sure an armchair lawyer from Belgium knows 1000 tricks to just dissolve a company heavily in debt, and most importantly with no repercussions for himself or others involved. In Belgium it HAS TO BE as easy as it is in the UK and in the rest of the world! I mean, in the worst case scenario, Hyperion could just sell every debt they have to Trevor, and be done.. Easy peasy lemon squeezy!

In the words of Coldplay,

"Nobody said it was easy, but nobody said that it would be this hard! Let's take it back to the start."

They either want to be part of the AmigaOS 4.x development or they'll tow the line and leave the exciting developments to A-EON's enhancer project anyway! If they want to continue developing AmigaOS 4.x then hurry up and get some updates out already (with or without SMP) or just sell it to A-EON (now with Cloanto's blessing hopefully) and have done with it!

This has become more about servicing Hyperion's debt than running a business as far as I can see, that is all I am trying to say! Whether it is possible to separate Amiga OS4.x licenses from Hyperion at this point, I have no idea.

BigD's Question Corner:

Q1. Would Ben Hermans like AmigaOS 4.x to go down with the Hyperion ship?

BigD's opinion:
I would hope not but he is not engaging with the community so why should we believe otherwise? Let's hope that Trevor got a 'AmigaOS license transfer to A-EON in case of bankruptcy' clause out of Hyperion when he bailed them out a few years ago!

Q2. Does BigD want Hyperion to go bankrupt?

A. No, they have served us in the past when many jumped from the good ship Amiga. The real question is; are they already bankrupt and being propped up by illegal liquidity from OS3.1.4 and litigation escapades?

Last edited by BigD on 27-Jul-2020 at 12:59 PM.

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@Amigo1

Quote:

I mean, in the worst case scenario, Hyperion could just sell every debt they have to Trevor, and be done..

Start from scratch?
After so many years?
Get lost.

@thread

I changed the title to better reflect the content of the thread.

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ROAR

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@Hondo

Quote:

I changed the title to better reflect the content of the thread.

I saw that and thought, "Six pages already! What happened now?"

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@bison

Quote:

in the current (and seemingly unending) Amiga disputes.

to which we can now add:

Cloanto goes against US trademark 'Amico'

same in English

#6

Last edited by number6 on 27-Jul-2020 at 10:52 PM.

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