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g01df1sh
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Bloat Posted on 7-Sep-2020 19:38:32
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Super Member |
Joined: 16-Apr-2009 Posts: 1777
From: UK | | |
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| Hi
What do modern OS do with memory. Was just cleaning up my girlfriends Samsung tablet. Its using 1.5gb out 2 just to boot to the os. What is it doing with all the memory ? _________________ A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr Elbox empty Power Tower RPi3 Emulating C64 ZX Atari PS BBC Wii with Amiga emulation Vampire v4 SA |
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Steady
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Re: Bloat Posted on 8-Sep-2020 4:16:43
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Joined: 1-Nov-2004 Posts: 211
From: Melbourne, OZ | | |
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| @g01df1sh
Services. Some programs pre-load portions on startup (naughty in most cases and often done by the pre-installed bloatware). Also, the more memory you have to manage, the more real memory is used by the mapping. Also, registry.
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sTix
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Re: Bloat Posted on 8-Sep-2020 8:36:36
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Joined: 22-Oct-2003 Posts: 138
From: Lund, Sweden | | |
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| @g01df1sh
It's probably not really using (in the Amiga sense of the word) anywhere near that amount of memory. Asking a Linux system how much memory it's using is a bit like asking a bank how much money they have, it all depends on who's asking and when / how they're going to use it. Look at 'cat /proc/meminfo | grep MemAvailable' instead (not 'cat /proc/meminfo' | MemFree')', that will give you something that's closer to the truth (it's still just a very rough guestimate though). _________________
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ErikBauer
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Re: Bloat Posted on 8-Sep-2020 9:45:39
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Super Member |
Joined: 25-Feb-2004 Posts: 1141
From: Italy | | |
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| I'd say also caching/preloading of files and common libraries.
Also, modern OS have lots and lots of things running in background that elder ones do not have
Maybe when ultrafast NVME will be the common reality there will be less preloading,who knows
_________________ God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music
Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)! |
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asymetrix
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Re: Bloat Posted on 8-Sep-2020 16:23:00
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Cult Member |
Joined: 9-Mar-2003 Posts: 868
From: United Kingdom | | |
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| @g01df1sh
Modern software recognise that memory is 1000x faster than the hard drive, so sophisticated software will take advantage of it Eg load file system in memory for fast access. Or load DOM in memory for quick browsing the web. The theory is what’s the point in having super fast memory if you are not using most of it. These days memory is cheap and in 2020 the standard is set to 32 GB. _________________ Download 499.26 Mbps, 659.94 Mbps Upload :) |
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bison
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Re: Bloat Posted on 8-Sep-2020 18:27:27
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Elite Member |
Joined: 18-Dec-2007 Posts: 2112
From: N-Space | | |
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| @sTix
Good suggestion, but 'free' produces almost the same result, and is easier to type.
bison@home ~ $ free; cat /proc/meminfo | grep MemAvailable total used free shared buff/cache available Mem: 32802380 1287492 29180800 109936 2334088 30959836 Swap: 33416192 0 33416192 MemAvailable: 30959324 kB
_________________ "Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner |
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sTix
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Re: Bloat Posted on 8-Sep-2020 19:35:49
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Regular Member |
Joined: 22-Oct-2003 Posts: 138
From: Lund, Sweden | | |
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| @bison
Back in the 90s people would have fainted if someone would say that almost 2G is a minor difference :)
But I agree, on your system the difference is surprisingly small. You need to run more cruft and leave the machine on for half a year ;). I'm willing to bet a euro or two (not more) that the relative difference on g01df1sh's tablet is bigger though. _________________
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sTix
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Re: Bloat Posted on 8-Sep-2020 19:40:49
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Regular Member |
Joined: 22-Oct-2003 Posts: 138
From: Lund, Sweden | | |
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| @bison
LOL, I just realized that your 'same results' comment wasn't about memory use at all. Silly me, nevermind my comment above. I just like cat:ing things :) _________________
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matthey
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Re: Bloat Posted on 8-Sep-2020 23:07:51
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Elite Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2007 Posts: 2010
From: Kansas | | |
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| Quote:
asymetrix wrote: These days memory is cheap and in 2020 the standard is set to 32 GB. |
There is a memory size standard and it is 32GiB? Is that how much memory the average user needs to use a web browser now days?
Computers can be so cheap that for the cost of every 8GiB of memory a usable computer can be purchased. Does that make memory cheap or the cost of bloat expensive?
Last edited by matthey on 08-Sep-2020 at 11:10 PM.
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outlawal2
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Re: Bloat Posted on 9-Sep-2020 16:09:38
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Regular Member |
Joined: 16-Apr-2010 Posts: 114
From: Unknown | | |
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| @matthey
Sorry folks but 32Gb is not the standard. If you are a gamer maybe, but not the standard by a long shot. (I AM a Gamer and play very heavy flight sims that eat up memory and I still only have 16 GB so 32 is a ridiculous statement, sorry) Most machines are still being shipped with 8 although 16GB IS starting to become more mainstream so I MIGHT agree hesitantly that MAYBE 16 GB but 32, not a chance.
And you can run a browser on 4GB if you want to but I don't recommend it. Most folks today can still get along perfectly with 8GB so let's not exaggerate things eh?
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Lou
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Re: Bloat Posted on 9-Sep-2020 17:52:48
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Elite Member |
Joined: 2-Nov-2004 Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island | | |
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| My main PC has 32GB of ram and 16GB on the video card. I run 2 screens. 2 screens comes in handy running my Wii U emulator since I can be fullscreen on one screen and have the Gamepad screen on the other which emulates touch functionality with the mouse.
My main screen is a 43" 4k TV but I mostly run that at 1440p. Second screen is an older 24" 1080p monitor.
What I really need to do is clean out my office so I can have the space to run VR... |
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pavlor
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Re: Bloat Posted on 9-Sep-2020 19:49:17
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9588
From: Unknown | | |
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| @outlawal2
My cheap notebook had 4 GB when purchased nearly 4 years ago. Two steps really improved its performance: 1) forced reinstall of Win10 (thanks Microsoft... at least pre-installed bloatware is gone) and 2) updating RAM to 8 GB. With my limited needs (basic webbrowsing, office, Amiga emulation and older games), this configuration is fully sufficient. Maybe replacing HDD with SSD could be another step, but I will probably rather buy a new computer (with more RAM installed by default), than invest in the old one. However, I´m quite sure any ram above 8 GB would be used only by video games. |
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matthey
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Re: Bloat Posted on 9-Sep-2020 22:08:39
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Elite Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2007 Posts: 2010
From: Kansas | | |
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| Quote:
pavlor wrote: Maybe replacing HDD with SSD could be another step, but I will probably rather buy a new computer (with more RAM installed by default), than invest in the old one.
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I have bought used memory DIMMs for older PC computers which can be quite reasonable in cost. I have configured several old computers for multi-channel use which gives a nice performance boost in addition to the boost from increasing memory in a OS using virtual memory and demand paging. The AmigaOS is no faster with additional memory until nearly all is used causing a flush while Windows is preloading and then slow paging on demand no matter how much memory there is.
An SSD usually uses flash memory. There has been some talk about access times in this thread.
SRAM L1 cache 1-2ns SRAM L2 cache 3-20ns SDRAM mem 50-100ns flash mem 25,000-50,000ns disk mem 5,000,000-10,000,000ns
An SSD can make quite a difference with demand paging. Virtual memory is usually not used on a RTOS which the Amiga is closer to because of the unacceptable pauses during normal program execution.
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However, I´m quite sure any ram above 8 GB would be used only by video games. |
Extra memory is nice for multi-tasking too but 8GiB is enough for most casual users.
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kolla
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Re: Bloat Posted on 9-Sep-2020 23:27:49
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Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Aug-2003 Posts: 2896
From: Trondheim, Norway | | |
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| Last edited by kolla on 09-Sep-2020 at 11:28 PM.
_________________ B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC |
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KimmoK
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Re: Bloat Posted on 13-Sep-2020 19:23:25
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Elite Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2003 Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland | | |
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| Just a few observations...
If I have Steam launched on a idling 2GB Win10 machine, it will run out of memory in a few days.
+ 2GB enable running one app (like chrome) at a time. The bloat is insane. _________________ - KimmoK // For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA // // Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer? |
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