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bison
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Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs Posted on 11-Jan-2021 4:03:12
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Elite Member |
Joined: 18-Dec-2007 Posts: 2112
From: N-Space | | |
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Some non-ARM platforms that might also be candidates for removal include:
- H8300 - C6X - SPARC/Sun4M - PowerPC/CELL (separate from the PlayStation 3 code) - PowerPC/CHRP - PowerPC/AmigaOne
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Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs_________________ "Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner |
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Hypex
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Re: Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs Posted on 11-Jan-2021 6:05:36
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Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11200
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @bison
PowerPC/AmigaOne? When did they ever support PowerPC/AmigaOne? I've never seen an official kernel build in the past 15 years that supported PowerPC/AmigaOne out of the box so I don't know that means.
Do they mean removing support for configuring it in a custom kernel? In that case PowerPC/AmigaOne is rather obsolete as there has been PowerPC/SamXXX, PowerPC/AmigaOne X1000 and PowerPC/AmigaOne X5000 in the meantime. All completely different PowerPC/AmigaOne platforms. Also what about PowerPC/Pegasos that was directly supported in PPC distros?
To be fair running Linux on a PowerPC/AmigaOne platform these days is too dog slow. You can't do much with it. Even just on a simple desktop it's not good. A sub 1Ghz CPU and no graphics acceleration is just too slow for even basic work. It works but it isn't pretty to deal with lag. The only thing in its favour is the kernel can boot real fast on an XE and would be wicked fast on an SSD I imagine. Last edited by Hypex on 11-Jan-2021 at 06:08 AM.
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Geri
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Re: Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs Posted on 11-Jan-2021 8:51:49
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Joined: 7-Oct-2003 Posts: 2038
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bison
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Re: Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs Posted on 11-Jan-2021 18:36:35
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Elite Member |
Joined: 18-Dec-2007 Posts: 2112
From: N-Space | | |
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| @Hypex
I searched the kernel,org mailing list thread, and at this time there's really not any further information, except for this brief note:
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I can also confirm that Pegasos2 users in the Amiga scene are running Linux (Debian) on these machines. |
Old platforms: bring out your deadLast edited by bison on 11-Jan-2021 at 06:42 PM.
_________________ "Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner |
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Geri
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Re: Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs Posted on 11-Jan-2021 20:29:17
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Elite Member |
Joined: 7-Oct-2003 Posts: 2038
From: ST/AT | | |
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| @bison
Quote:
bison wrote: @Hypex
I searched the kernel,org mailing list thread, and at this time there's really not any further information, except for this brief note:
Quote:
I can also confirm that Pegasos2 users in the Amiga scene are running Linux (Debian) on these machines. |
Old platforms: bring out your dead |
Yepp, some users over at a1k.org have installed Linux on their Pegasos2 machines. More important however is that the Debian PowerPC ports maintainer is still using powerpc/chrp machines to which the Pegasos2 belongs to._________________ A1SE: G3@600MHz, 2GB, 1GBit network card A1XE: G4@933MHz, 2GB, refitted AC'97 codec microA1: G3@800MHz, 1GB
- A1 Linux support - |
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Hypex
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Re: Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs Posted on 22-May-2021 13:48:50
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Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11200
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @Geri
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But okay, this platform has probably more Linux users than the first-gen AmigaOne. |
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BTW: is any of the other AmigaOne platforms officially supported by a Linux distribution (and no, I'm not talking about the support provided by AEON for Linux)? |
Well, there are patches in the source tree, which is the closest to actual support. Christian is the main maintainer on AmigaOne X1000 and X5000 platforms. Although his name is not mentioned down below in the author list, he would submit bug reports.
https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/log/?h=v5.10&qt=grep&q=amigaone
To my knowledge, there are no distros with official support for the A1 series. Which would be hard as that would imply a bootable installer with working Linux system, ready to boot from, at least to me. However, there is the relatively recent Fienix distro specific for PowerPC. There's no installer that I'm aware of so it must be imaged to a partition then is ready to go after setting it up in the boot menu.
http://fienixppc.blogspot.com |
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Geri
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Re: Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs Posted on 22-May-2021 22:47:48
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Joined: 7-Oct-2003 Posts: 2038
From: ST/AT | | |
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| @Hypex
Quote:
Hypex wrote: @Geri
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But okay, this platform has probably more Linux users than the first-gen AmigaOne. |
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Well, I know that some A2000/A3000s are used as build boxes for the Debian m68k port.
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I only know that Darren Stevens posts patches specifically for the X1000 from time to time (as can be seen for some of the commits under the link you posted).
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To my knowledge, there are no distros with official support for the A1 series. Which would be hard as that would imply a bootable installer with working Linux system, ready to boot from, at least to me. However, there is the relatively recent Fienix distro specific for PowerPC. There's no installer that I'm aware of so it must be imaged to a partition then is ready to go after setting it up in the boot menu.
http://fienixppc.blogspot.com |
Ah yes, I forgot about the Fienix distro. Unfortunately it seems to be for 64-bit machines only. So Debian testing is still the only alternative for 32-bit powerpc machines._________________ A1SE: G3@600MHz, 2GB, 1GBit network card A1XE: G4@933MHz, 2GB, refitted AC'97 codec microA1: G3@800MHz, 1GB
- A1 Linux support - |
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Hypex
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Re: Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs Posted on 23-May-2021 9:32:30
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Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11200
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @Geri
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Well, I know that some A2000/A3000s are used as build boxes for the Debian m68k port. |
That's great news! Amiga over Mac.
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I only know that Darren Stevens posts patches specifically for the X1000 from time to time (as can be seen for some of the commits under the link you posted).
Yes I noticed that name a bit. What I found interesting is that the X1000 was last updated 2020 but I could only find one entry from 2015 for the X5000 (Cyrus.) Must be a solid platform.
https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/log/?h=v5.10&qt=grep&q=cyrus
[quote] Ah yes, I forgot about the Fienix distro. Unfortunately it seems to be for 64-bit machines only. So Debian testing is still the only alternative for 32-bit powerpc machines. |
Perhaps, but if it gives you some hope, the kernels tend to be 64-bit but the programs run in 32-bit user space. In the Fienix about window it says 32-bit release. |
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs Posted on 23-May-2021 10:31:23
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Elite Member |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12817
From: Norway | | |
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| @Hypex
So are they talking about dropping 32bit support, or is just big endian cpu’s that they want to stop supporting, PowerPC is used in embedded space, NASA uses cpu’s and US military, sure many of PowerPC har hybrids, stopping supporting 32bit, and many of embedded system should happy run 64bit kernels.
Dropping all 32bit support should result in some pushback, Linux is not just for desktop, in fact, I bet most Linux installations are client / server installations. Not desktop installation.
_________________ http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/ Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS |
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs Posted on 23-May-2021 10:37:06
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12817
From: Norway | | |
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| @bison
Regarding code organizing, my guess is lot of this has to do how code is organized, if code is badly organized, it being in way, making code less readable, then it where likely that people wont it removed, if code is well organized, modular / self-contained, and follow guidelines, I’m sure they won’t have issue with it. unless something major is going to happen to the kernel. _________________ http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/ Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS |
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cdimauro
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Re: Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs Posted on 23-May-2021 12:34:25
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Elite Member |
Joined: 29-Oct-2012 Posts: 3649
From: Germany | | |
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| @NutsAboutAmiga Quote:
NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Hypex
So are they talking about dropping 32bit support, or is just big endian cpu’s that they want to stop supporting, |
The general trend is to drop support to big-endian.
That's because all major architectures support little-endian. Quote:
PowerPC is used in embedded space, NASA uses cpu’s and US military, sure many of PowerPC har hybrids, stopping supporting 32bit, and many of embedded system should happy run 64bit kernels. |
Legacy stuff can still keep and use the existing tools. Quote:
Dropping all 32bit support should result in some pushback, Linux is not just for desktop, in fact, I bet most Linux installations are client / server installations. Not desktop installation. |
32-bit support is here to stay. It's too early to stop supporting it...
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NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @bison
Regarding code organizing, my guess is lot of this has to do how code is organized, if code is badly organized, it being in way, making code less readable, then it where likely that people wont it removed, if code is well organized, modular / self-contained, and follow guidelines, I’m sure they won’t have issue with it. unless something major is going to happen to the kernel. |
Who will do or pay for it? |
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Geri
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Re: Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs Posted on 23-May-2021 22:16:44
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Elite Member |
Joined: 7-Oct-2003 Posts: 2038
From: ST/AT | | |
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| @Hypex
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Hypex wrote: @Geri
Perhaps, but if it gives you some hope, the kernels tend to be 64-bit but the programs run in 32-bit user space. In the Fienix about window it says 32-bit release. |
Good to know! But I guess it is still to heavy for the first-gen AmigaOnes. But I wonder if it comes with Arcticfox - would love to see that in Debian ports.
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NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Hypex
So are they talking about dropping 32bit support, or is just big endian cpu’s that they want to stop supporting, PowerPC is used in embedded space, NASA uses cpu’s and US military, sure many of PowerPC har hybrids, stopping supporting 32bit, and many of embedded system should happy run 64bit kernels.
Dropping all 32bit support should result in some pushback, Linux is not just for desktop, in fact, I bet most Linux installations are client / server installations. Not desktop installation.
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Neither big-endian nor 32bit in general is being dropped, but architectures and platforms that are either unsupported by their original developers, which disappeared from the market (some embedded CPU architectures) with no users left or are already known to be broken since some releases with nobody even caring about it (no bug reports from users)._________________ A1SE: G3@600MHz, 2GB, 1GBit network card A1XE: G4@933MHz, 2GB, refitted AC'97 codec microA1: G3@800MHz, 1GB
- A1 Linux support - |
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Hypex
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Re: Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs Posted on 26-May-2021 15:27:48
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Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11200
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @NutsAboutAmiga
Quote:
So are they talking about dropping 32bit support, or is just big endian cpu’s that they want to stop supporting, PowerPC is used in embedded space, NASA uses cpu’s and US military, sure many of PowerPC har hybrids, stopping supporting 32bit, and many of embedded system should happy run 64bit kernels. |
I've only noticed dropping 32-bit support for PowerPC in main distros like Debian. And then focus on ppc64el.
Though it seems strange to me to just drop ppc 32 support. As i386 is still supported last I looked. Seriously, people are still using old 32-bit x86 CPUs in this day and age? A 32 bit ppc is 15 years out of date sure. But I can't imagine any use for a 32 bit x86 these days unless it's a special embedded one. There would be no drivers included to work on such old hardware. |
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