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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  NTFS and
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Deniil715 
NTFS and
Posted on 22-Feb-2021 10:22:51
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4201
From: Sweden

Hi!

I just formatted a 1TB USB disk with NTFS on windows and tried to use it as backup on my X1000, but I cannot create files or directories containing any 8-bit characters, like .

I googled and read that NTFS stores filenames in unicode and accepts UTF-8 when creating files and dirs.

Is there any setting or fix or something to the NTFS filesystem driver that can translate from the current Amiga code page (Latin1 for me) into UTF-8, or are we left hanging here?

I tried to create a dir with a name containing À (or something) and that was accepted and shows up as on a PC. But it would be very tedious having to do this conversion by hand.

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lionstorm 
Re: NTFS and
Posted on 22-Feb-2021 20:44:16
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 1574
From: the french side

@Deniil715

not really a solution but a work around: since this is a backup, you might compress your backup and give a name w/o (and similar).
when extracted on Amiga you files will still have the correct name.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: NTFS and
Posted on 22-Feb-2021 22:31:03
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11600
From: Norway

@Deniil715

It really not possible fit 4 million glyphs codes into 256 char large ascii table,

Quote:
Is there any setting or fix or something to the NTFS filesystem driver that can translate from the current Amiga code page (Latin1 for me) into UTF-8, or are we left hanging here?


you can use utf8.library to make convert your ASCII chars into UTF8 strings, UTF8.library can also display utf8 strings.

anyway, my impression that there is anti utf8 behavior in the OS4 development teams, so I suggest modifying dopsu4 and maybe scalos, that is open source, add support for UTF8

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-Feb-2021 at 04:27 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Feb-2021 at 10:33 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Feb-2021 at 10:32 PM.

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Mobileconnect 
Re: NTFS and
Posted on 23-Feb-2021 7:49:48
#4 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2003
Posts: 354
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

OS4 team needs to accept that UTF8 is only solution for Amiga going forward. Alternative is to break all APIs by switching to double byte strings and that will break everything.

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Deniil715 
Re: NTFS and
Posted on 23-Feb-2021 14:24:53
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4201
From: Sweden

Thanks.

Compression is not an option since I'm backing 100'ds of GB pictures and videos that should be readily viewable on a PC.

What I could do is replace all ,, with the UTF-8 double-chars À (or simply a,a,o) using MultiRen, then copy the files. Then undo the rename in MultiRen. Could work. Have done similar when backing to CD (which have a max filename length of 64 chars). Then I compressed the names using MultiRen, backed to CD, then undo rename.

I agree that OS4 really should support UTF-8. UTF-16/UCS-2 is stupid, and still isn't enough for all chinese, klingon etc. UTF-8 is the only sane way forward and now defacto standard (except in windows which went the 16-bit path).

Does utf8.library exist for OS3/68k? I could implement this in BackUp as a special option when backing to/from NTFS. There is already special code for FAT32 (which can't store odd-second timestamps).

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Hypex 
Re: NTFS and
Posted on 23-Feb-2021 15:37:27
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10143
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Deniil715

I thought we had some prefs editor to help but nothing stood out. Type of thing CrossDOS would have been suitable for. The C: NTFS commands (or abomination) don't look helpful either. You can also create uncompressed archives but that may not help either, unless a zip would work, that Windows treats as a filesystem.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: NTFS and
Posted on 23-Feb-2021 16:34:31
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11600
From: Norway

@Deniil715

Quote:
Does utf8.library exist for OS4/68k? I could implement this in BackUp as a special option when backing to/from NTFS. There is already special code for FAT32 (which can't store odd-second timestamps).


No I only made it portable to OS3/68K, I have not ported it to 68k, because Im lazy and if they wont they need to put in some work.

Because there is no 68K port, there is no stubs for 68K apis on OS4 yet, as stubs defines the 68K register for argument passing, I think it should be job done by people who port It to 68K, (OS4/68K stubs can come when the API written in stone.)

I dont want to define something that will be complete different, when its actually ported to 68K.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-Feb-2021 at 04:52 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-Feb-2021 at 04:51 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-Feb-2021 at 04:49 PM.

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OneTimer1 
Re: NTFS and
Posted on 23-Feb-2021 18:10:21
#8 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 628
From: Unknown

@Deniil715
If you want to use a 'foreign' filesystem like NTFS for backups you should use an archiver like gtar, zip or especially for Amiga lha.

Amiga archivers can pack and compress Amiga data preserving all the flags only used on Amiga filesystems.

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Mobileconnect 
Re: NTFS and
Posted on 23-Feb-2021 21:24:37
#9 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2003
Posts: 354
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

I'd be interested in helping with 68k port

Also I note L:Filesystem_trans being used for other things than crossdos is possible these days.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: NTFS and
Posted on 23-Feb-2021 22:46:29
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11600
From: Norway

@Mobileconnect

Quote:
I'd be interested in helping with 68k port


Yes you can grab it from

https://github.com/khval/utf8_library

Yes I remember that crossdos and crossmac was able to translate files, on the fly, but the problem is really is that you only translate one way without data loss, you translate into some kind of esc sequence encoding, but it wont really help, as will be just as unreadable as utf8 encoding, I remeber in the early days Win96/VFat hack to include long filenames on filesystem with only 8+3 chars.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-Feb-2021 at 11:32 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-Feb-2021 at 11:32 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-Feb-2021 at 11:32 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-Feb-2021 at 10:51 PM.

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