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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga Emulation
      /  AmiKIT XE + Pi400 =Amiga future
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Poll : Is this the future of Amiga?
Yes
No
Pancakes
 
PosterThread
amigang 
AmiKIT XE + Pi400 =Amiga future
Posted on 9-Apr-2021 22:44:46
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1587
From: Cheshire, England

Amikit XE for Raspberry Pi4 / Pi400 is here, here are some of my thoughts,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojjnLtjpBv4

Basically it runs very well for a £35 computer (or £70 for the keyboard version), its not perfect there are some littles issue this is after all emulation, but when I think about how the Pi has had roughly a 20% speed bump each time, and if the Amiberry / UAE4ARM emulation can iron out these bugs I think its going to be a really strong system.

Plus it just makes me think how good could a native AmigaOS4 be on a system like this, I mean one little thing I was amazed to find out is actually the Raspberry Pi first version came out Feb 2012, you know what else came out that month?...The AmigaONE X1000.

Now dont get me wrong the AmigaONE x1000 is a dam fine effort and great computer still, but I cant deny that this Pi system now is dam close to it. OS4 is still better than what OS3 can be but particular AmiKit setup show you just how close you can get on the old OS.

Anyway I'm enjoying it, you can find out more and buy AmiKit here
https://www.amikit.amiga.sk/raspberry​

My AmiLion App + them cool Wallpapers
https://leavereality.uk/product/amili...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojjnLtjpBv4

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: AmiKIT XE + Pi400 =Amiga future
Posted on 10-Apr-2021 5:10:52
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2274
From: Minnesota, USA

@amigang

Until an SMP capable kernel emerges for nextgen platforms, Amiga has no legitimate future. Amiga's existence is stuck in the past with all other retro kit.

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pavlor 
Re: AmiKIT XE + Pi400 =Amiga future
Posted on 10-Apr-2021 8:12:04
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9223
From: Unknown

@amigang

Port to another CPU architecture requires two basic resources: developers and money. Neither of those is plentiful in the Amiga community.

A1222 was intended as some sort of Pi-price-level device. We all know, how it ended.

From my POV, improving WinUAE/QEMU/whatever emulation would be much cheaper and easier to make.

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A1200 
Re: AmiKIT XE + Pi400 =Amiga future
Posted on 10-Apr-2021 9:19:40
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-May-2003
Posts: 3076
From: Westhall, UK

It's ok, it will have appeal to some. I still don't get any feeling when not running classic hardware, even next gen feels emulated, which in some ways I guess it is.

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DiskDoctor 
Re: AmiKIT XE + Pi400 =Amiga future
Posted on 10-Apr-2021 15:51:55
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Feb-2009
Posts: 627
From: Rzeszow, Poland

@pavlor

Quote:
A1222 was intended as some sort of Pi-price-level device. We all know, how it ended.


It didn't end yet, just been rescheduled for Q2 2021.

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simplex 
Re: AmiKIT XE + Pi400 =Amiga future
Posted on 10-Apr-2021 15:59:09
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 880
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@amigang

I don't really see how this is that much different from what you could already do with Amiga Forever. I realize there are some differences, don't get me wrong; I just don't see how they're that much different. Much of the heavy lifting is being done by the Linux host, and there's a bit of trickery to make it feel as if the Linux-based stuff is happening within the emulated Amiga system, but, for instance, the website states plainly that you may "launch host Linux applications directly from your emulated Amiga and run them on your AmiKit desktop... [but] clicking on the AmiKit desktop makes your host Linux apps disappear [and y]ou need to press Alt-Tab to bring them back again."

If the future of Amiga isn't bleak, as it often seems to be, then it seems to me that it needs to be as open and as portable as possible, running legacy software in a virtual machine the way Apple does every now and then. Here you seem to have the legacy software in the virtual machine... and not much else.

If you could run AROS natively on a Pi 400, using UAE in AROS to run legacy software, that could be something. AROS has at least demonstrated multicore support, though how well-designed it is is unclear to me. But the point is moot, since a glance at the AROS webpage indicates that their ARM port is non-functional at the moment.

So the only future I'm really seeing right now is Vampire, whose team seems to think that Amiga's future consists mainly in assembly programming a 68000-like core simulated in FPGA with the aim of reviving the 1980s with somewhat more modern graphics and sound... and that's it, though I hope I misunderstood their intent. But that wouldn't be much future at all.

My much-deflated $.02.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmiKIT XE + Pi400 =Amiga future
Posted on 10-Apr-2021 16:39:46
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11694
From: Norway

@A1200

Yes, I noticed that MorphOS displays warpup/warp3d demos in a windows instead of displaying it as a full screen. That was not what I expected.

On AmigaONE / AmigaOS4.1 you do not have planar so the fake modes has to be convert the graphics, all legacy modes are also sadly stuck at 640x480, this makes this screen mode slow more then they need to be. And sometimes incompatible.

the actual work for the CPU to converting to or from planar is huge, I think maybe the way its also done not as efficient as it can be, I made major improvement in Basilisk conversion routines in the latest version. similar technique can maybe be applied to a patch. Something I thinking about for a wherry long time now.

Anyway games and programs that do support AmigaOS4.1 native screen modes do feel really snappy and nice to me, anyway your correct in you will notice many issues trying run classic software on AmigaOS4.x, this has lot to do with how programs where written.

note I can’t use same code, as the Basilisk II as it uses chunky 2,4 bit modes, the 1 bit mode is single planar mode, so 1bit modes does apply.

Ideally can maybe get the GPU to do the work.

Naturally if you run programs in EUAE / RunInUAE they are emulated 100%.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Apr-2021 at 01:19 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Apr-2021 at 11:21 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Apr-2021 at 04:41 PM.

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amigang 
Re: AmiKIT XE + Pi400 =Amiga future
Posted on 12-Apr-2021 11:14:09
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1587
From: Cheshire, England

@simplex

Quote:
I don't really see how this is that much different from what you could already do with Amiga Foreve


There was a guy who started selling books online, bit silly really when you could get book from the shops or library. Went on to become Amazon.

My point is you never know where this could lead, I have of course been enjoying Amikit long before this release, I had many other Amiga system emulated setup on my PC. So whats the big deal with this.

Well Pi community is another market very similar to ours it has the programmers, tinkers, and loads of fun little project if we can get a few of them the check out the Amiga, maybe for even the first time, I think that a win, plus a package like Amikit that is pretty well put together is the right package to show off.

Plus now when anyone returning to the Amiga and like a play around with a one, we got a package we can point to for less than a price of a new PS5 game (Whole computer included!!). I mean it not just Amikit, its also PiMiga that I think has helped spark a bit more interest in a fully loaded classic Amiga.

Plus having a thing like Rabbit hole work so well is the icing on the cake for me personally and might help a lot of people stay with the AmigaOS if they can still access things like the modern web and play modern media files.

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nikosidis 
Re: AmiKIT XE + Pi400 =Amiga future
Posted on 12-Apr-2021 11:37:08
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 985
From: Norway, Oslo

There are many ways to run Amiga.

This is just one of them.

No matter how fast you could emulate or even run AmigaOS native the OS structure is outdated.

It is simply nothing you can do about that without breaking compatibility.

Amiga lives very happy as a classic gaming system.

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simplex 
Re: AmiKIT XE + Pi400 =Amiga future
Posted on 12-Apr-2021 15:40:53
#10 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 880
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@amigang
Quote:

[quote]Quote:
I don't really see how this is that much different from what you could already do with Amiga Foreve[\quote]
There was a guy who started selling books online, bit silly really when you could get book from the shops or library. Went on to become Amazon.

The difference between selling books online (international reach) and selling them in a brick-and-mortar store is substantial. Very often, that which wasn't available at all was now available.

The difference between Cloanto's Amiga Forever and AmiKit consists of packaging and usability tweaks. After all, Amiga Forever already runs on ARM devices, and the vast majority of files included with AmiKit is freely available (as the AmiKit webpage admits). AmiKit itself is nonfunctional unless you also purchase Amiga Forever (or have access to the ROMs).

Your analogy would be more accurate if you said that if Amazon had sold a book printed in invisible ink, which you could read once you purchased another the "de-invisibilizer" from a different company which also sold books that were already visible, only in a different language that was about as easy to learn as the one that Amazon sold products in, but in any case was much more widely spoken...

Maybe now you see the problem with your analogy?

Last edited by simplex on 12-Apr-2021 at 03:41 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmiKIT XE + Pi400 =Amiga future
Posted on 12-Apr-2021 16:49:11
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11694
From: Norway

@nikosidis

You can easily make user levels security, by adding hypervisor, You build things around the OS.

Anyway the OS is not more secure then software you install on it.

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Rose 
Re: AmiKIT XE + Pi400 =Amiga future
Posted on 12-Apr-2021 17:28:48
#12 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 856
From: Unknown

@simplex

Another major difference, people actually want books.

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amigang 
Re: AmiKIT XE + Pi400 =Amiga future
Posted on 12-Apr-2021 19:18:47
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1587
From: Cheshire, England

@simplex

Quote:
After all, Amiga Forever already runs on ARM devices,


It be nice if it did, but Amiga Forever package/software is only designed for Windows machine. It be nice if they made there package easy installable for other platform. You kind of have to know what you doing and what files you require. You and even people like me are clearly not the main target of Amikit or Pre-config Amigas, because we kinda know what were doing and how to setup a Amiga system.

This package is targeted at people who either A. Don't have the time to setup, B. Don't know how to set it up, or C. Didn't even know an Amiga could do all this (there are many that remember it just as a gaming machine). If you show someone and point them to AmigaOs 3.1 not many are going to be impress, then you say but wait if you just go around the internet and download / setup these 400 apps, mess around this and that setting then you could have a system like this, many are going to say, I haven't got time for that!

Quote:
Your analogy would be more accurate if you said that if Amazon had sold a book printed in invisible ink, which you could read once you purchased another the "de-invisibilizer" from a different company which also sold books that were already visible, only in a different language that was about as easy to learn as the one that Amazon sold products in, but in any case was much more widely spoken...

? Yes it would been nice if Cloanto license out the Rom to complete the package (might happen...AmiHybrid) so you wouldn't need to get hold of the roms. Plus the Pre-setup Amiga Forever AmigaOS 3.X package is just not as good as Amikit.

My Analogy still kind of holds, it basically you take an idea that anyone could of done (ie find and sell books online / Build a cool pre-config AmigaOS ) But you put the work in to make sure the experiences is painless and easy for the end user (Books are kept in stock, easy to order etc / Obtain permission from third parties to included there programs and even get exclusive updates etc, easy GUI for installing and obtaining update etc).

At the end of the day I only see this as a positive for Amiga community and a great thing to point to for people who want to try a high end Amiga setup.

Last edited by amigang on 12-Apr-2021 at 07:20 PM.

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simplex 
Re: AmiKIT XE + Pi400 =Amiga future
Posted on 12-Apr-2021 20:46:49
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 880
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@amigang

Oh, I think it's a positive, too; I just don't think it's the future. Or maybe the future is already here. In a way, after all, the Amiga philosophy won. The vast majority of machines today consists of a pre-emptive multitasking operating system that feeds multimedia-related work into specialized hardware such as a GPU or sound chip, and the GPU often has its own RAM to work with (i.e., "Chip RAM").

You can even bang the hardware if you want; you just have to sacrifice the operating systems' services... which, again, is just like an Amiga.

The only thing about Amiga that modern machines don't have would be AmigaOS proper, which alas had serious drawbacks. So IMHO the future of Amiga is a portable AmigaOS that incorporates resource tracking and memory protection, while sandboxing emulation of "old" Amiga. But that's very hard to do, and would require sacrifice of quite a few aspects of AmigaOS if you do it property (e.g., the whole approach to messaging), as has been discussed lots of times by people much more informed than I.

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