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Petah
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[POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 12-Apr-2021 8:41:55
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Regular Member |
Joined: 10-Mar-2003 Posts: 432
From: EU <3 ❤️ | | |
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| Within the Amiga community, the term "PC" usually whips up emotions. Although the acronym is short for "personal computer", some Amiga users detest it and others fully embrace it. It can likely be argued that the some naysayers think of it as a synonym to platforms running foreign operating systems, while others think that using the abbreviation is a way of recognizing the Amiga as an alternative to other systems. In this quick AmigaWorld.net Monday Poll, you are kindly but firmly asked to tell the world whether or not your Amiga is in fact a personal computer or not. _________________ That'll Put Marzipan In Your Pie Plate, Bingo 💻 Pro-Amiga, 🌍 Pro-Globalism, 🍅 Pro-Vegan, 🛦 Pro-NATO & 🇪🇺 Pro-Joint EU Defense Intervention Initiative |
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amigang
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 12-Apr-2021 13:43:14
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Elite Member |
Joined: 12-Jan-2005 Posts: 2024
From: Cheshire, England | | |
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| @Petah
Well the word "PC" is really tied with Windows Computers, I don't hear many people or any refer to there Macs as PC's.
_________________ AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio |
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BigD
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 12-Apr-2021 14:35:27
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Elite Member |
Joined: 11-Aug-2005 Posts: 7322
From: UK | | |
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| @amigang
Macs ARE PCs if they are x86-64 based and can run Windows in BootCamp. PPC and Apple Silicon based Macs are not! PC is synonymous with IBM comptibles/Windows/AMD&Intel x86-64 CPUs and the ability to run PC software! Under that definition the Amiga is not a PC unless you run emulators! _________________ "Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art." John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios |
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10MARC
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 12-Apr-2021 15:07:12
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Member |
Joined: 3-Dec-2019 Posts: 79
From: Unknown | | |
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| This poll is intentionally missing context in order to be a bit melodramatic, but yes, the Amiga is a Personal Computer, but not the generic "PC" that refers to a DOS/WIndows/Wintel based machine. Well... My A2000 does have a Bridgeboard in it, so it is a PC, too! |
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BigD
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 12-Apr-2021 15:32:51
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Elite Member |
Joined: 11-Aug-2005 Posts: 7322
From: UK | | |
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| @10MARC
All software used to be labelled as IBM PC Compatible but that was quickly simplified to PC CD-ROM/DVD-ROM and now just PC in the Steam/GoG store. While the generic ‘Personal Computer’ term remains in text books the marketing is ingrained to the point where no other PeeCees exist in the public consciousness other than Windows boxes! Heck Apple had to completely distance themselves from the PC designation to get traction in the market place; “Think Different!”, “I’m a Mac and I’m a PC” etc! Before it capitulated and became a x86-64 manufacturer itself with worse thermals, better build quality and macOS to set the user experience apart as different to warrant an Apple tax... but they were IBM PC compatibles until the Apple Silicon made them glorified iPads with keyboards!
Commodore always saw the PC as a different beast and would have probably preferred to have had an Amiga card in a generic PC box to sell by 1994 they valued the Amiga uniqueness so low! Last edited by BigD on 12-Apr-2021 at 03:43 PM. Last edited by BigD on 12-Apr-2021 at 03:41 PM.
_________________ "Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art." John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios |
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pavlor
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 12-Apr-2021 16:05:27
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9588
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Petah
Of course it is!
And also a home computer and microcomputer ("micro"). |
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 12-Apr-2021 16:43:28
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12818
From: Norway | | |
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redfox
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 12-Apr-2021 20:11:02
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Elite Member |
Joined: 7-Mar-2003 Posts: 2067
From: Canada | | |
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| @Petah
IMHO, the industry has made the term PC synonymous with IBM PC or IBM PC compatible. Typically, these run Microsoft Windows.
My Amiga systems are Amiga compatible personal computers, NOT PC's.
--- redfox
Last edited by redfox on 12-Apr-2021 at 09:10 PM. Last edited by redfox on 12-Apr-2021 at 09:09 PM. Last edited by redfox on 12-Apr-2021 at 08:16 PM. Last edited by redfox on 12-Apr-2021 at 08:15 PM. Last edited by redfox on 12-Apr-2021 at 08:11 PM.
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Deniil715
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 12-Apr-2021 20:43:02
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Elite Member |
Joined: 14-May-2003 Posts: 4236
From: Sweden | | |
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| My Amiga will *NEVER* become or be called a PC!!!
It is AmigaOS running on AmigaOne X1000 hardware ==> Amiga! nothing else...
Yes, in technical terms it's a micro computer, home computer and a personal computer. But never a PC! _________________ - Don't get fooled by my avatar, I'm not like that (anymore, mostly... maybe only sometimes) > Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft. |
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redfox
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 12-Apr-2021 20:57:12
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Elite Member |
Joined: 7-Mar-2003 Posts: 2067
From: Canada | | |
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| @Petah
Just thinking out loud and not trying to stir up any trouble ... 1) Was my Z80 microcomputer system a personal computer? 2) Was my QNX system just another PC? 3) Was my laptop just another laptop when it was running AROS?
--- redfox
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amigang
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 12-Apr-2021 22:56:00
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Elite Member |
Joined: 12-Jan-2005 Posts: 2024
From: Cheshire, England | | |
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| @BigD
I know what you saying, ibm claim the term PC meant for any computer running x86, but even when Mac run x86 I don’t here anyone refer to them as a PC, or think of them as a Pc, they think of them as a Mac. You go to to Mac owner, with computer in front of them and you say “oh nice PC” you going to get a puzzled look every time.
If we are going off by just the term PC, personal computer, then every Phone is a PC. But again no one in common day to day chat is going to say things like “oh my Pc is losing power, call you back later” or “have you seen the latest PC 5G!” You get a lot of funny looks.
When ever I hear the term PC it always means Windows machine unless it elaborate d on and someone say it’s a Pc running Linux or something.
_________________ AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio |
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agami
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 13-Apr-2021 3:06:00
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Super Member |
Joined: 30-Jun-2008 Posts: 1653
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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| @Petah
Whilst technically PC is an acronym for Personal Computer, that is not its true etymology. In contemporary computer vernacular and culture, the term PC stems from a shortening of the term IBM PC, and later as IBM compatibles overtook IBM's own systems, the term became synonymous with Windows PC. Which is why Apple famously used this distinction in their "I'm a Mac" series of ads.
By the same token, the Commodore Amiga series of personal computers, are not a PC. And you can say the same for many of the other post-Commodore computers which licensed the name and tech.
I suppose the only scenario in which someone's "Amiga" is a "PC" is when they boot up a Windows PC to then load UAE, Amiga Forever, or other Amiga emulation. I guess you could also add to that anyone who might still be running an Amithlon system. _________________ All the way, with 68k |
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bison
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 13-Apr-2021 20:58:58
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Elite Member |
Joined: 18-Dec-2007 Posts: 2112
From: N-Space | | |
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| @Petah
One of them is.
I use the narrower definition: a personal computer is not a PC unless you can program it via INT 21H.
Update: No pancakes, no vote. I can even be bothered to write in pancakes.
Last edited by bison on 13-Apr-2021 at 09:01 PM. Last edited by bison on 13-Apr-2021 at 09:00 PM. Last edited by bison on 13-Apr-2021 at 08:59 PM.
_________________ "Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner |
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Deniil715
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 13-Apr-2021 21:13:53
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Joined: 14-May-2003 Posts: 4236
From: Sweden | | |
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| @amigang
Quote:
If we are going off by just the term PC, personal computer, then every Phone is a PC.
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Right on the spot! And the reason Amiga will never be PC, nor a PC, nor called a PC!
Thanks you. That killed off the last doubt if Amiga would ever be a PC
@agami
Yes!_________________ - Don't get fooled by my avatar, I'm not like that (anymore, mostly... maybe only sometimes) > Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft. |
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BigD
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 14-Apr-2021 0:19:33
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005 Posts: 7322
From: UK | | |
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| @Deniil715
Spot on, the Amiga was never JUST a PC. I’ve been reminded that Apple have tried their very best not to push their Intel machines as PCs even though that’s what they are! The lack of battery/trackpad/GPU switching optimisations for BootCamp is scandalous considering it’s a great selling point to be able to dual boot into Windows especially since Apple killed gaming on the Mac! Was reminded how on the ball you have to be understanding GPT vs MBR partition tables when trying to boot into more than two OSes and the number of extra third party software you have to configure for the Windows side to see your Mac data etc is really quite daunting!
An Intel Mac IS a PC but it’s obvious that Apple wished they weren’t and are very glad to be moving back into vertical integration mode with the Apple Silicon roadmap. _________________ "Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art." John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios |
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simplex
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 14-Apr-2021 0:50:45
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Cult Member |
Joined: 5-Oct-2003 Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS | | |
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| @BigD
Quote:
An Intel Mac IS a PC but it’s obvious that Apple wished they weren’t and are very glad to be moving back into vertical integration mode with the Apple Silicon roadmap. |
I agree that Apple is moving "into vertical integration mode", but is it really "back into vertical integration mode"? When did they ever manufacture their own CPUs?
Apple I, II, II+ were MOS 6502 Apple IIe, III were MOS, Synertek, or NCR 6502 variants Apple IIGS was WDC 65816 variant Lisa, Mac were Motorola or IBM CPUs until the switch to Intel
Some iPhones have been running Apple-designed CPU's but moving laptops to Apple-designed CPUs doesn't seem to be "back into vertical integration mode" unless Apple quit using their own CPUs on their own phones for a while, which would be news to me.
Am I missing something?_________________ I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me. |
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Trekiej
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 14-Apr-2021 1:48:41
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Cult Member |
Joined: 17-Oct-2006 Posts: 890
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Petah
"personal computer" not Personal Computer, that is what I believe. What personality does it have, I say Amiga.
_________________ John 3:16 |
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matthey
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 14-Apr-2021 2:45:30
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Elite Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2007 Posts: 2008
From: Kansas | | |
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| There are multiple definitions for a PC.
1) Personal Computer - a multi-purpose computer whose size, capabilities, and price make it feasible for individual use
2) IBM Personal Computer (model 5150) compatible hardware which is Intel 8088 compatible CPU with IBM PC compatible BIOS
Historically, definition 1 was in use before definition 2 above. The Altair 8800 is considered by some to be the first personal computer. Few would argue that the Commodore PET was the first mass produced personal computer. More recently, definition 2 has become more popular. Any definition is valid to use, not just the most popular definition (the cancel culture can *not* change history). Therefor, the Amiga is a personal computer because it fits definition 1.
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BigD
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 14-Apr-2021 11:50:21
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Elite Member |
Joined: 11-Aug-2005 Posts: 7322
From: UK | | |
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| @matthey
And yet if you said to someone, “would you like to see my unique PC” and they saw AmigaOS with no MS Word, Fortnight or Minecraft they’d think you were mad. As previously clarified, text books would call the Amiga a form of personal computer but the rest of the world only see PCs as Windows boxes! Software that is available for the PC on Steam is for x86-64 machines only (heck Steam itself doesn’t run on the Amiga). To all intensive purposes other than historically obsessives a PC is a Windows box running on a x86-64. Linux might run on a PC but people would still question whether it’s a PC because Windows became the defining feature of PCs not form factor, size or use.
In the UK ‘home computer/home computing’ best described the Amiga, Atari ST, Amstrad CPC 464, Spectrum, Apple II, C64, BBC Micro etc. Maybe in America they were all marketed as ‘PCs’? In the USA the victor writes the history so no wonder the IBM PCs stole the classification name here like Hoover, Nintendo and George Foreman. It doesn’t mean that the Amiga was categorised as anything other than a ‘home computer/games computer’ in the UK/Europe despite being mainly a Video/Graphics Workstation in the USA and at games development studios around the world.
No company, parent or individual went out to buy a ‘PC’ in the 90s and came back with an Amiga. People who went out with an open mind to buy a ‘home computer’ in the 80s and 90s (in Europe anyway) DID come back with a ‘micro computer’ of varying types.
Windows 95 meant that the only ‘home computer’ left standing was the Windows PC despite it being an office computer with limited multimedia potential at first. It probably motivated coders to produce Doom etc because the CGA generation of games with pathetic (compared to the Amiga). The PC Speaker sound of that era especially meant it was a depressing time to have a PC as your ‘home computer’! The Americans probably disagree but there really was no better ‘home computer’ than the Amiga until Windows XP was released IMHO. It’s just there were few Amigas being marketed and sold during that time and the USA market had already moved on with DirectX, sound/graphics cards etc slowly gaining parity with Amiga features. Last edited by BigD on 14-Apr-2021 at 12:12 PM. Last edited by BigD on 14-Apr-2021 at 12:09 PM. Last edited by BigD on 14-Apr-2021 at 11:59 AM. Last edited by BigD on 14-Apr-2021 at 11:58 AM. Last edited by BigD on 14-Apr-2021 at 11:56 AM.
_________________ "Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art." John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios |
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BigD
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Re: [POLL] Is your Amiga a PC? Posted on 14-Apr-2021 12:06:02
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Elite Member |
Joined: 11-Aug-2005 Posts: 7322
From: UK | | |
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| @simplex
Quote:
I agree that Apple is moving "into vertical integration mode", but is it really "back into vertical integration mode"? When did they ever manufacture their own CPUs?
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I guess I was viewing the PowerPC AIM Alliance of Apple, IBM and Motorola as an organisation that Apple could help steer and influence. I know that didn’t work out but in theory they would give requirements to IBM and Motorola and they’d design and deliver CPUs with the requirements Apple required. That isn’t quite buying CPUs ‘off the shelf’ but yes the Apple Silicon era is an era of aggressive vertical integration not previously seen at Apple.Last edited by BigD on 14-Apr-2021 at 12:06 PM.
_________________ "Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art." John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios |
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