If I won the LOttery I would fund the development of a 3,2 Ghz 68 k Compatible Computer with 3 D Graphixs and 24Bit Audio In and Output for estimated 149$

Just dreaming

Last edited by QBit on 11-Jun-2021 at 09:36 PM.

@QBit

I keep dreaming this as well.

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A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr
Elbox empty Power Tower
RPi3 Emulating C64 ZX Atari PS BBC
Wii with Amiga emulation
Vampire v4 SA

@QBit

This is essentially already available for the most part it’s just not that cheap.

http://www.apollo-computer.com/order.htm

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 11-Jun-2021 at 10:50 PM.

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@DiscreetFX

Not that cheap..not that fast no 3D Graphics no 24 Bit Audio

If that would exist it would be a success like Raspberry Pi




Look at what prices you can run WinUAE

https://www.gebrauchtcomputer24.de/computer.html

Last edited by QBit on 11-Jun-2021 at 10:44 PM.
Last edited by QBit on 11-Jun-2021 at 10:41 PM.

@QBit

I'd go with a 68K Amiga SoC and let others build the systems.

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QBit Quote:

Not that cheap..not that fast no 3D Graphics no 24 Bit Audio If that would exist it would be a success like Raspberry Pi

SAGA has upgraded audio now. Half way modern 3D logic would require a much more expensive FPGA. The Apollo CPU core takes most of the FPGA space and is partially responsible for the product being expensive. A cheaper FPGA could be used but it would lower the CPU performance.

You better win a big lottery if you want to develop and produce a 3+ GHz modern 68k. It would likely require over 10 million U.S. Lowering the GHz target to 2 GHz or below could cut the cost in half or more. You would probably need to produce and sell 100,000+ chips to recoup costs. An alternative for lower production would be to buy big high performance FPGAs which could allow 1 GHz CPU cores but may cost as much as a car. The Apollo Team could probably be convinced to make a smaller batch of hardware using mid-performance FPGAs that would allow several hundred MHz CPU cores for double or triple the current Vampire cost. A mass produced ASIC is the way to reduce costs into Raspberry Pi territory but it would be difficult to match their performance/price. It shouldn't be too difficult to make an appealing product in this impulse buying price range without matching the performance/price though. A 68k retro games device may do it for example.

@bison,

Kind of what I was thinking. Vampire type CPU, not SOC, On a board with fast buss master PCI, options for bells and whistles.

Chris

Not stated well but you get it.

@QBit

Would be great if an Amiga 1200 form factored motherboard with what you’re dreaming about was possible.

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64bit SMP-enabled native AROS RPi4 port and nobody would complain...

QuikSanz Quote:

Kind of what I was thinking. Vampire type CPU, not SOC, On a board with fast buss master PCI, options for bells and whistles.

Enhanced Amiga custom chips are so small in an SoC that the logic can basically be added for free (less than $1), moving everything closer is faster and a SoC takes less board space allowing for a smaller cheaper board. PCI could be added but likely needs more pins and a larger board which increases cost. PCIe and SATA need SerDes which also raises costs but may take less board space.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SerDes

AmigaMac Quote:

Would be great if an Amiga 1200 form factored motherboard with what you’re dreaming about was possible.

The Amiga 1200 board is larger than necessary and the I/O plugs on the back spread out more than necessary which may add additional expense. It also may be worth considering using the Raspberry Pi form factor and designing the board to work in a Raspberry Pi 400 wedge/keyboard/case.



The Amiga 1200 keyboard is nicer but the modern wedge concept is interesting and cheap.

Last edited by matthey on 12-Jun-2021 at 06:03 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 12-Jun-2021 at 06:00 PM.

@matthey,

PCIE and SATA, now I'm drooling. Need a bit bigger FPGA to add the bits and then turn it into an ASIC, should be good for 1GHz. Nice dreams

Chris

Last edited by QuikSanz on 12-Jun-2021 at 08:42 PM.

@QuikSanz

And get someone to make fast 3d chipset, and get someone to make super good 3d driver, by simply pull something from github, and hit make, and they have something better then AMD and Nvidia. Its so simple to do

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@matthey

Vampire V4 main board is already really small. Just buy it instead of waiting around for Vaporware future fantasy Amiga machines.

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@DiscreetFX

I simply don`t have 650 € for a Vampire V4 when I can buy a refurbished 3,2Ghz PC for 34 € and run WinUAE on it at reasonable Price amd Speed and then domate 20 € to Toni Wilen!

@NutsAboutAmiga,

Yes, Send a SAGA type signal to a 3D accelerated GPU of some sort, must have a good driver.

QuikSanz Quote:

PCIE and SATA, now I'm drooling. Need a bit bigger FPGA to add the bits and then turn it into an ASIC, should be good for 1GHz. Nice dreams

The FPGA on the Vampire SA is likely big enough and there are Cyclone Vs with SerDes for not too much more. If developing for an ASIC, quite a bit larger FPGAs would be preferred. The higher price of developer boards for designing an ASIC could probably be paid for by selling some of the extra FPGA boards as the fastest Amigas ever made. I believe a more reasonable first target would be a ultra low priced SoC with similar expansion to a Raspberry Pi and 2D support only. Shoot for a board price between the Raspberry Pi and Raspberry Pi Zero. The 68k AmigaOS is more competitive here too.

NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

And get someone to make fast 3d chipset, and get someone to make super good 3d driver, by simply pull something from github, and hit make, and they have something better then AMD and Nvidia. Its so simple to do

Making a good 3D chipset is difficult compared to a good CPU core and would likely take a large amount of SoC area which increases an ASIC cost. There are plenty of 3D "chipsets" on the market which can be licensed for a 2nd generation of SoCs. If or when adding standard 3D support for the Amiga this late, it may be worth considering realtime raytracing which may be good for marketing considering the Amiga was one of the early computers able to display the results of raytracing. It is possible even in FPGA at lower resolutions as demonstrated on the SNES in the following video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jee4tlakqo

DiscreetFX Quote:

Vampire V4 main board is already really small. Just buy it instead of waiting around for Vaporware future fantasy Amiga machines.

An ASIC SoC could allow an Amiga with a fraction of the price of an FPGA Vampire SA and several times the performance. It would leave all these competing products with FPGA CPU cores or 68k emulation on ARM in the dust. All these different hardware developments are too spread out for mass production and make support more difficult. The Amiga needs to work on price/performance and return to having products that offer good value.

Last edited by matthey on 13-Jun-2021 at 01:11 AM.

@matthey,

That's about perfect, and while we dream maybe even get the 2MB minimum chip or more on the SOC.

PS: Maybe a bit of it at least. the rest can live close by.

Last edited by QuikSanz on 13-Jun-2021 at 12:00 AM.

@DiscreetFX

Does Skill Grid work on the Vampire V4 with ApolloOS?

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