We all have different opinions about things, so way not another pool, to see what people think.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

What does "founded" mean? I think English isn't your first language, so if you want to provide the word in your language, maybe one of us can puzzle out what you mean.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

It really does not matter if the source is open or not. What matters is if there is a team that maintains it properly with a good vision and that revenues (perhaps by donation) are funnelled to the development.

The money should not go to an entity that uses it for court battle over something they do not own.

I think the software should be available for "free", but you can donate if you like and there can be cost options with official release boxes and add-on stuff (ROMs).

@simplex

Not sure what that word is. There is a “o” that should not be there. spellcheck in word says its a word. Not sure way the spellchecks included never used words, or how that is helpful to someone who needs a spellcheck, ask Microsoft.

Anyway, you can look up the word here, if you’re interested in the word, I did not intend to type.
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/founded

Should be "funded".

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@NutsAboutAmiga

I prefer a funded, open-source model. Mostly through donations and bounties, but I think there’s scope for other sources of income, too. It might well be that the source is open, but I think most people would pay a little bit for some support and a nice packaging.

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@evilFrog

People normally like to pay for things that are done, not pay for work by the hour, but sure there is Patrion, I can say I won’t risk my job to go full time Patrion. Its maybe an ideal option but not a realistic option. sure there are some people make it there and manage to work many small jobs, instead of one normal day job.

In my option, paid work is more likely If there is work contract. not saying that people are not working for free to under contracts.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 17-Jun-2021 at 07:03 PM.
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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

a proper strategy and plan forward

Well at least the poll's not biased.

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The name brand is all played out. The open-source Aros code is almost abandoned except for ApolloOS on the Vampire and the outdated ABI v0 version. Let me know when multicore support works.

No pancakes for me either. The batter is probably expired and will give us salmonella poisoning.

Even if AmigaOS were open source as I voted, it would STILL go nowhere.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Projects with an open source base can still have both a plan and organized development.

AmigaOS has not been properly funded since Commodore days anyways. Why do you believe this would suddenly change? There simply is no market to sustain the capital flow necessary to properly employ developers (or contractors). A poll on Amigaworld.net won’t fix this. Even MorphOS, that costs a lot of money per license, can’t be considered to be a properly funded commercial project with developers paid market price for all their time spent on developing. It’s all a passion driven development project really, and the little money raised through license fees is nothing but beermoney in the context.

Last edited by TRIPOS on 19-Jun-2021 at 08:03 AM.

@TRIPOS

If you want an open source OS then use Linux. Look at BeOS; it’s nowhere. Greed is all that pushes the open source agenda. Something for nothing. Something that other people slaved over you want for free! Did having the source code for Alien Breed 3D 2 lead to better versions or clones? No because it was a mess and so was the source for AmigaOS. Now that it’s in C mostly and preserved we should pay for further development and possible porting to other ISAs in the future. Without a centrally controlled licensee the whole thing will fall apart. Heck it’s complicated enough now with OS3.9 and OS3.2 both needing supporting for future software. Some die hards will still expect OS3.1 support!

And most importantly no one would invest in A-EON or ACUBE hardware for Open Source software and AmigaKit will sell less peripherals if we just run Open Sourced distros on PeeCees. The whole ecosystem crashes at that point. But at least you’d get to mess with the code

Last edited by BigD on 19-Jun-2021 at 12:33 AM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @evilFrog People normally like to pay for things that are done

Done? When was AmigaOS ever done?

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@BigD

Quote:

Greed is all that pushes the open source agenda. Something for nothing. Something that other people slaved over you want for free!

I don't think you understand open source.

Let's take Linux as an example. An enormous number of people pay for development of Linux, and pay for support services. That's how Red Hat made its millions, and they poured that money into improving Linux, both by paying their own developers and sponsoring others. SuSE and Ubuntu did the same. This is a great model for those who can pull it off.

A lot of people contribute to open source software simply because they get a kick out of producing something, rather than merely consuming it, and an even bigger kick out of the fact that other people also use it. (That's how I felt about my MidToFront commodity for AmigaOS the first time someone emailed me to ask for an enhancement, way back when.)

Other open source software has its origin in sharing the code so that other people can inspect it and adapt it to their own needs. The people creating this are generally paid for a "day job" and they produce the open source software as part of this day job, but keep other stuff proprietary. MacOS works that way (or did; it was was the Darwin kernel). I think Android works that way, too.

A lot of people who use open source, and who demand open source, don't actually mind paying for it. They just want to see the code so that they can modify it to their needs. That's actually how GNU got started! Stallman didn't mind that he had to pay for the software; he was outraged that it didn't work with his printer, and they wouldn't give him a way to modify the source code for it. The Gnu license actually allows people to charge for distributing the binary and the source code; you just have to make the source code easily available and allow people to redistribute it themselves.

The point is that rather than seeing all the software as the product, you look at either part of the software as the product, or at a service associated with the software as the product. Lots and lots of people are willing to pay for the services that Red Hat offers, and they are also happy to let other people live off that, because they understand that many people using software leads to better software eventually.

Whether that's a good model for AmigaOS is another matter, but I would suggest that the troubles AROS has (and its was pretty usable the last time I used it; I developed a program for it) are because so much effort goes into AmigaOS and its legal battles, and MorphOS. The Amiga community is fragmented and most of the commentary turns off people who would think about participating. Had AmigaOS been open sourced 25 years ago it would have been a completely different matter.

As for Be, it never made a splash the way Amiga did in the 80s, so it isn't comparable, but the fact that they actually have a working OS built from the ground up should tell you something about whether it's feasible.

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I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me.

I voted to open source AmigaOS.
Not because I believe it will usher in an age of rebirth for OS development, and certainly not because I buy into some doomsday view of how it will spell the end of A-EON/Acube/AmigaKit. If their business model was hinging on what Hyperion are (not)doing, then I guess they deserve to perish.

AmigaOS should be open sourced because it's time. Give away the OS and focus any remaining energy on creating applications to give purpose to the OS. You can't tell me that y'all are not tired of all the fighting and bickering? Hasn't the OS been through enough?

Yes, if some utopian MDMA-induced pipe dream of a reasonable and wealthy entrepreneur with clear and determined vision, who takes AmigaOS and drives it into a new age of relevance were to become reality, I would prefer that. But this isn't happening any time soon. I say set it free. It really can't matter at this point.

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All the way, with 68k

I feel it should be a bit of both maybe, so say Amigaos 3.1 and Amigaos 4.1 go open source and free, but AmigaOs 3.2 and AmigaOs 4.1 FE remains closed and so if you want the latest version you have to pay, and maybe after each new release, so if we ever get Os4.2 then Os4.1fe goes free and open source maybe that would work?

or how about again the Os become free and open source but all open source projects require a Amiga key kind of like how Whdload did it for years, where you had to registrar/pay for a key to get rid of a small pause and pop up, that open source versions would have to include so maybe it wouldn’t be a 100% open but more like a shareware model, and the money raised from the key would pay for future developments. In a way we kind of got this model as now there are quite a few project like amikit, pimiga, coffinos etc that just require kickstart chip to work.

Maybe that’s another way of doing it, the OS, ie workbench is free but Kickstarter remain closed?

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@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @TRIPOS If you want an open source OS then use Linux.

If I need Linux, I’d use Linux because I need Linux, not because it’s open source. And there is a huge industry of commercial projects based on Linux.


Quote:

Look at BeOS; it’s nowhere.

BeOS was a funded, closed source OS. It has been ”nowhere” since the point in time when Be Inc could no longer sustain the money flow needed for its closed source, commercial development, and because they never released it as open source.


Quote:

Greed is all that pushes the open source agenda. Something for nothing. Something that other people slaved over you want for free!

The post-Commodore Hyperion AmigaOS model means having other people slaving away for free because of passion, and then Hyperion collecting the money for themselves. Money that financial records has shown is very far away from making it possible to sustain a proper commercial development. Beer money. Why do you think court documents mention Friedens claiming being owed 2 millions(?). Why didn’t any of the promised features of grandeur based on licensed technologies ever arrive? Promised icon sets, or the file system that was touted as a key feature, why did it disappear? Why was the OS-bundled network stack never updated, while the same stack released stand-alone was updated many times? Why did everything OS4 completely stall many, many years ago? Because of broken promises and people never getting paid, that’s why! 1.5 decades ago, MorphOS had a similar fallout for similar reasons. This reshaped the entire project and the developers remaining are doing it for themselves now, out of passion, and the beer-money collected through license fees is under their control. The IP ownership situation is much more complex when it comes to AmigaOS, making it more difficult for enthusiast level developers wanting to contribute by fixing/updating stuff in OS4. Will it be worth their effort, will it all sustain? Open source could clarify such a situation. And it will ensure that the OS never fades into oblivion, like BeOS did, should the IP stakeholders disappear. It would then still be around, and the developers who contributed in making the recent updates could continue to work on it, knowing it will not be in vain.

BeOS is today Haiku, it is open source and in a heck lot better place than AmigaOS is, with both community funding and private donations, as well as they have through all years participated in Google's Summer og Code and had student apprentices contributing to OS components. But it helps that the OS has a modern stucture to begin with, and isn't a chewgum and shoestring single memory space games bootstrapper as AmigaOS in many ways is.

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@TRIPOS

Fine, we’ll explained. I think it could work but it would be great if it was a decision ‘agreed’ on by Hyperion, A-EON, AmigaKit and Cloanto to oversee the general direction and for that group to provide the ‘services’ that people need. I doubt 4 Amiga parties can be supported by the MorphOS model and think Cloanto and AmigaKit MAY be alright under an open source ‘service’ model but the new arrangements are unlikely suit A-EON and especially Hyperion. That would be sad as they’ve done the most to get the AmigaOne project to where it is! ACUBE too have been a good company for the Amiga as have Varysis. We need to find a solution that these companies can work with IMHO. All that is talked about here is a kind of capitulation of Hyperion in the courts, the license returning to Cloanto/Amiga Corp and Mike signing off on open sourcing to please parts of the community. The danger is this would be with minimal guidance of development because Amiga Forever is a sustainable business on its own and gives him plenty of free time to attend Amiga meets and network (Trevor and Mike’s true passion IMHO). Maybe that networking skill set COULD unify an open sourced effort? I don’t know.

Practically speaking, is the A1222 Plus waiting for more favourable terms from Hyperion on an OEM license deal or are they waiting for a completely new open source model under Cloanto under which to bundle the OS following a perceived future win in the courts? Interesting.

Also, surely open sourcing would mean eventual competition with A-EON AmigaOS compatible hardware from ‘off the shelf’ sources like AROS x86-64 boxes. Again, their business model could suffer unless they lead the charge on preconfigured x86-64 or RspPi emulation machines with RabbitHole and AmigaOS 4.2 included!

Last edited by BigD on 19-Jun-2021 at 10:08 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 19-Jun-2021 at 10:07 AM.

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@kolla, thread
Quote:

BeOS is today Haiku

Yes, so far as this is understood to mean, "Haiku is a complete rewrite of BeOS from the ground up," rather than, "Haiku started with BeOS sources and developed from there."

In addition, Haiku's developers started pretty much right at the dissolution of Be, because it was obvious that Palm was doing nothing with BeOS. Most BeOS fans consolidated around Haiku relatively quickly, and it shows: they have a working Java Virtual Machine, a working web browser, and working ports of many, many software packages such as Libre Office.

AROS started relatively quickly, but little was done because there was always the eternal hope of a, uh, "white knight", as mentioned in another thread: QuikPak, Escom, Phase5, Amiga Inc., Genesi, MorphOS, Hyperion, A-Eon, now Vampire... Energies divided led to effective dissolution.

Had AmigaOS been open source from the start, things might well have been different. Then again, maybe not. It's all hypothetical and there's no way to verify one or the other.

(In fact, Palm did nothing with PalmOS, either: they spun off their OS division as PalmSource, then refused to buy the OS they developed. The hardware company, PalmOne, went from dominating the PDA and smartphone market to selling itself off to HP after developing at least one another OS, WebOS -- and that nearly sank HP. Palm had a singular talent for self-destruction, worse even than Commodore's it would seem.)

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@BigD

Quote:

Greed is all that pushes the open source agenda. Something for nothing.

That's a very negative point of view. One could just as well say that Open Source is driven by benevolence, since the creators produce a product with no guaranteed renumeration.

Last edited by bison on 21-Jun-2021 at 06:50 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

This poll is a bad attemnpt at trolling. We have been using a closed source model so far - and the OS was neither "funded", nor was there a proper strategy or a plan forward. Yet your question implies that only closed source development could achieve any of those goals.

Quote:

People normally like to pay for things that are done

"Normal" does not apply to this market:

- Phase5 G3/G4 accellerator prepayments?
- the AInc coupon scam?
- Buggy Eyetech A1 boards without AmigaOS?
- prepaying for an X1000 months before its produced?
- AmigaOS 4.2?
- Timberwolf?
- A1222+ Earlybird?
...

Last edited by cgutjahr on 19-Jun-2021 at 04:53 PM.