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BigD 
Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 26-Jun-2021 12:20:32
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5845
From: UK

My children (both under 10) see the value of both 2D and the 3D games. Toy Story 3 is a modern-ish (2010) classic that they like to go back to. In the meantime, they play Streets of Rage 2 with as much joy as Streets of Rage 4 and like Cup Head as much as Turrican! Lemmings, Rainbows Islands and BubbleBobble (the new PinkAbyss port is amazing and loved as much as Bubble Symphony to be honest) are already part of their childhood.

My thoughts are that because the Amiga games have been introduced alongside the newer yet similar games, the Amiga is still viewed as relevant. Getting to play on it can even be a fun treat when we get null modem gaming or Deluxe Paint out for a spin.

So if we all persevere and build Amiga memories with our children, surely there can be a future even if it’s on Arm or emulation? I know that iPads, Mine Craft and Fortnight are very popular but my children aren’t addicted to all that yet and Amiga memories can be forged!

Obviously, if the Amiga parties blow it all to hell then it’s all over but here’s to being optimistic!

What do people think?

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BigD 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 26-Jun-2021 12:33:25
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5845
From: UK

@Thread

…obviously RETROCENGO disagrees but I don’t think that it’s a given that our children’s best memories will be forged on touch screens!

Here’s his video on the Amiga’s future:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg_y-RDcMDg

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simplex 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 26-Jun-2021 14:41:33
#3 ]
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Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@BigD

The next generation have never heard of the Amiga. Now apply basic logic, or even common sense.

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BigD 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 26-Jun-2021 15:14:37
#4 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5845
From: UK

@simplex

I’ve just illustrated that my kids already know what it is and they call glorified etcher sketch drawing pads ‘iPads’ so it’s not as clear cut as you say! Many schools in Europe use RPis so if the most fun to be had was emulating an Amiga on those things then they’d all be using AmiKit at lunchtime! Doom and gloom will get us nowhere (unless we’re talking about the AGA versions ).

…obviously in the USA everything’s been x86, Apple or Nintendo since 1985 Other parts of the world do vary and your little corner thought Commander Keen was better than Amiga platformers Not really interested in the US scene beyond what Amiga Bill has to say to be honest.

Last edited by BigD on 03-Jul-2021 at 10:46 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 26-Jun-2021 at 03:20 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 26-Jun-2021 at 03:17 PM.

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simplex 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 26-Jun-2021 19:48:07
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 896
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@BigD

Quote:
I’ve just illustrated that my kids already know what it is

Just as "the plural of anecdote is not data," "your kids" ≠ "the next generation". They are a very small, proper subset of the next generation.

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amigang 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 26-Jun-2021 22:24:08
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1610
From: Cheshire, England

Well firstly to the mainstream market we are already dead. So don’t worry about it.

However it is a shame that so many will never know what an Amiga is, but don’t forget there are kids now growing up not knowing what a PC is, or a mouse. as everything can be done on a smart phone now. Soon dvd, Blu rays, cds will be something only old farts will be buying. So let’s not feel too bad for our selfs. We already out lasted so many other things.

But I think no matter what Amiga has secured it’s place in history and I’m sure there will be that odd retro fan that will stumble on the Amiga scene and check it out.

I also actually think this is why it a shame a mainstream low cost mini Amiga like the mini nes / mini c64 isn't out yet as it is something that dads maybe buys for fond memories and show the kids what he grow up with and if done right I do think a mini Amiga with not just games but productive apps included would really help capture maybe new interest in the platform.

Last edited by amigang on 26-Jun-2021 at 10:32 PM.

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matthey 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 26-Jun-2021 22:42:29
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1066
From: Kansas

BigD Quote:

I’ve just illustrated that my kids already know what it is and they call glorified etcher sketch drawing pads ‘iPads’ so it’s not as clear cut as you say! Many schools in Europe use RPis so if the most fun to be had was emulating an Amiga on those things then they’d all be using AmiKit at lunchtime! Doom and gloom will get us nowhere (unless we’re talking about the AGA versions ).


An emulated Amiga is a dying Amiga. Most people who use an Amiga emulator are playing a few games they were exposed to earlier in their life that they liked. Younger generations are being exposed to the Amiga less and less as time passes without a popular Amiga so eventually even Amiga emulators will be rarely used like the original hardware. RetroCengo is correct that the Amiga market will likely start to collapse in 10-20 years without a popular product and few people will know what an Amiga computer was and what influence it had in 20 years. I believe he is wrong about the next generation Amiga which he is judging by current so called next generation Amiga hardware. This hardware is unpopular and therefor unable to change the big picture of the disappearing Amiga. The best way to preserve the Amiga is to make mass produced hardware that people can afford and is usable again. Can a $20 Amiga run a web browser, productivity software, programming languages and games with reasonable enough performance to be useful, educational and fun? Can a $20 Amiga handle many embedded uses with a minimum of resources using AmigaOS which is similar to a RTOS? Can an Amiga be made for $20?

I recently talked to a guy from Australia while playing a MMORPG. He had a C= VIC-20 when he was a kid and had bought a Raspberry Pi 2 or 3 (didn't remember) mostly to play retro games but wasn't impressed with the emulated gaming experience and didn't use it long. The price of the RPi is cheap enough that people are trying it and know what it is but the gaming experience and fun factor still leaves something to be desired. There isn't much competition in the RPi price range for a usable, let alone fun, computer. I am stuck telling people about the Amiga that disappeared with and because of CBM. Despite the resurgence of retro computing and gaming, the Amiga is an embarrassing no show for products that would appeal to people outside of die hard Amiga fans. The guy also mentioned he had an Intellivision Amico as a kid so I told him about the Intellivision Amico which he immediately checked out online. He didn't sound too interested with the price so close to more mainstream consoles and with the delays but at least Intellivision is trying to produced something besides lawsuits and the hardware is cheaper, a better value and has more 3rd party software lined up than the so called next generation Amiga hardware. There certainly aren't any game studios like the Bitmap Brothers making game for NG Amigas and even Indy games from ex-Amiga users rarely make it back to the Amiga NG. Talk about irrelevant!

BigD Quote:

…obviously in the USA everything’s been x86, Apple or Nintendo since 1985 Other parts of the world do vary and your little corner thought Commander Keen was better than Amiga platformers Not really interested in the US scene beyond what Amiga Bill has to say to be honest.


The Sega Genesis and Sony Playstations were a success here in the USA too. Yes, the original NES did well here at the same time as the Amiga which had hardware which was superior in every way. The Amiga was competing as a personal computer on the desktop instead of as a low priced toy like the consoles. Even the Amiga 500 was not as cheap as the NES and the lack of a hard drive in an Amiga 500 meant that the cartridge based NES was faster and easier to play games. It wasn't until the Amiga CD-32 that such a toy was available and by then it was too late for CBM to properly launch and support it. The CD-32 could have competed well against the Sega Genesis (CD) but CBM needed to launch it earlier, with more game support and with more sales outlets.

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billt 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 26-Jun-2021 22:46:36
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3184
From: Maryland, USA

@BigD

Everything old is new again. My son loves Terraria, a modern game which looks very retro-period. He has played lemmings and a few other things as well.

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Rose 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 27-Jun-2021 12:48:18
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 889
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@simplex

…obviously in the USA everything’s been x86, Apple or Nintendo since 1985 Other parts of the world do vary and your little corner thought Commander Keen was better than Amiga platformers Not really interested in the US scene beyond what Amiga Bill has to say to be honest.


If you actually had a clue you would know that all of those had higher sales numbers in europe than Amiga globally.

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OneTimer1 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 27-Jun-2021 14:33:31
#10 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 661
From: Unknown

@Thread

Some might see the Amiga ideal for retro gaming but many young people see Minecraft as a retro game, something we didn't had on the Amiga.

Or for example games made with RPG Maker, something tha never ran on the Amiga

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 27-Jun-2021 at 03:22 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 27-Jun-2021 19:21:49
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9240
From: Unknown

@BigD

Games are good or bad, no matter on what platform they run. People today expect sensible controls and convenient delivery.

Some Amiga games are really good, few days ago I tried "best desktop games of 1991" (my own list ) and several of them are playable even today: Gods, James Pond 2 or Turrican 2, Populous 2 (well, I prefer the 1993 DOS release, which has easier gamelplay), Civilization, Eye of the Beholder 1 and 2 etc. So, great "content" is already there, what we need is a good delivery system. GoG does great job with old games, but most of them are DOS releases (which are inferior for the late 1980s and in many cases even later), with few exceptions (Cinemaware games). Bring Amiga versions to GoG (or other mainstream online distribution) and new generation of gamers will find and enjoy Amiga as we do.

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matthey 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 28-Jun-2021 2:04:40
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1066
From: Kansas

pavlor Quote:

Games are good or bad, no matter on what platform they run. People today expect sensible controls and convenient delivery.


So a retro online store selling games with a game review and rating system so bad games can be avoided? Add a filter for platform and an easy download and install system?

It is difficult to have an easy installer with many different real, emulated and FPGA systems. The way to solve it would be to take most of the market with a cheap mass produced and standard product with internet connection.

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BigD 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 28-Jun-2021 15:46:27
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5845
From: UK

@simplex

Quote:

simplex wrote:
@BigD

Quote:
I’ve just illustrated that my kids already know what it is

Just as "the plural of anecdote is not data," "your kids" ≠ "the next generation". They are a very small, proper subset of the next generation.


You old fart! The correct response would be to introduce the Amiga to the youngsters in your family and go from there. My two were bought Worthy and Tanks Fury! as Christmas presents so as far as they’re concerned the Amiga is an alive, viable and most of all FUN platform! Maybe the kids don’t share your tepid enthusiasm because it doesn’t really register as enthusiasm? It just sounds like an old fart reminiscing about a bygone era that can’t return! And woe betide anyone that says otherwise or just has fun with the thing!

Last edited by BigD on 28-Jun-2021 at 03:48 PM.

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ne_one 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 28-Jun-2021 22:59:39
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 896
From: Unknown

You basically can't get anything.

A friend stopped by with his seven year old son the other day. While we were preoccupied, he walked over to a Galaga Countercade, plugged it in and starting playing the forty year old game as if he grew up in the 80s.

What's the difference between what Arcade 1up is doing and [insert name of legal entity who actually owns the Amiga IP]?

One company has licensed and sold over 2 million arcade systems while the other has squandered time and money battling it out over some mysterious form of flatulence.

If the people who control the Amiga don't see any real value in the platform, how can past generations and any future enthusiasts get it?

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agami 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 29-Jun-2021 9:07:11
#15 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 609
From: Melbourne, Australia

Do the next generation GET the Amiga?

The operative word here is "GET". Can individual members of Gen-Y, Millennials/Gen-Z, and future generations appreciate classic Amiga games? Sure. Can they find value in some of the productivity and creative software designed for the Amiga in the late '80s and early '90s? Perhaps. But they will never GET it.

This is not unique to the Amiga, though I would argue that it is one of the strongest examples of emotional attachment to a technology philosophy and the products that came from it. In many ways, it's a "You had to be there" thing. The whole vibe of personal computing during Amiga's heyday was different. The overall level of excitement and enthusiasm was high and the future looked shiny.

The sad thing is, I have not been able to feel that way about any technology since then. There have been some good highs: Smartphones and tablets, motion and gesture gaming, virtual assistants and smart homes, VR and AR, but never as intensely or for as long as when I lived through the original Amiga years.

Perhaps I'm in the wrong demography for such things. It would be interesting to speak to a young adult and ask then how they feel about technology today.

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BigD 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 29-Jun-2021 10:03:35
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5845
From: UK

@agami

I think the latest Apple advert sums it up. They use ‘Part of Your World’ from The Little Mermaid not to describe a coming of age moment of wanting more from life but to engender a desire for another thingy-ma-bob gadget that is from another world i.e. an iPad.

Gadgets/computers are jewellery now, they are all mostly used for social media and WhatsApp and they only reason to buy one over another is because of their value as a status symbol and because of bragging rights. It’s no longer about the voyage of discovery or “selling dreams” like it was with David Pleasance’s Amiga bundles it’s JUST about materialism and getting people hooked on a yearly hardware update cycle! Heck there’s not even any good exclusive games for the PS5 yet and it’s the fastest selling Sony console ever!

No wonder they don’t get it, they have a supercomputer in their hands and yet they treat it like jewellery or a glorified digital diary/sound board rather than to get creative or to kick back and enjoy playing and being a child. They have to earn achievements for it to hold their interest or they feel the need to stream it to their friends to prove their hobby is worthwhile and to show it really happened! They live to impress/please other people not for self improvement or inquisitiveness IMHO!

Last edited by BigD on 29-Jun-2021 at 10:09 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 29-Jun-2021 at 10:07 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 29-Jun-2021 at 10:06 AM.

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agami 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 30-Jun-2021 2:25:52
#17 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 609
From: Melbourne, Australia

@BigD

That would have to be some of the best captured, and most agreeable writing I have read from you.

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QuikSanz 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 30-Jun-2021 2:44:43
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1146
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@agami,

Agreed.

Chris

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matthey 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 30-Jun-2021 7:12:35
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1066
From: Kansas

@BigD
Explain how the Raspberry Pi fits your theory. It is not high performance or flashy. It is cheap, useful and trendy with only the latter coming close to fitting your theory. In my experience, the younger generations tend to be thrifty and practical rather than materialistic and snobby. The Amiga just has nothing in the value price range to appeal to them. They tend to not buy $2000 computers just like they tend not to buy $80,000 cars. Give them a cheap, practical and fun Amiga to buy and they will start a social network grassroots trend like the Raspberry Pi. The Raspberry Pi is cheap and practical but it is missing the fun and games of retro computing.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Do the next generation GET the Amiga?
Posted on 30-Jun-2021 10:03:50
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11754
From: Norway

@matthey

Quote:
practical and fun Amiga to buy and they will start a social network grassroots trend like the Raspberry Pi. The Raspberry Pi is cheap and practical but it is missing the fun and games of retro computing.


here is the problem, no one cares about Amiga, they care about playing games, it can be old MacOS, Atari, Amiga, C64 or whatever, they download retro pi to play games. or they do it on PC with WinUAE.

What young people think about is the future, they don’t care about the past, the retro thing is fling at best, so when they want to make games and content, they look for newest technology, or the easiest to use technology, no old technology that require a lot of effort, is going be of interest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poJfwre2PIs

They be using is Godot, Unity, Unreal, the program language they going to learn is JavaScript and phyton, maybe C#, Amiga has nothing to offer to the new generation, of programmers, so all you will have is declining new content. Sure, will be some C/C++ programmers as well, but its not as popular these days, its considered difficult.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines

let me post this, image it represents the Amiga community, a old man looking down on his own shoes, half blind, with no connection the current times, when Amiga community wont compare Amiga to PC’s, they talk about 386 a 486’s, in my time we had 512K ram , 7Mhz is all you need



Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-Jun-2021 at 11:26 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-Jun-2021 at 10:19 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-Jun-2021 at 10:17 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-Jun-2021 at 10:15 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-Jun-2021 at 10:14 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-Jun-2021 at 10:05 AM.

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