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prmetime 
Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 10-Nov-2021 15:45:49
#1 ]
Member
Joined: 22-Nov-2003
Posts: 32
From: Plymouth, MI

Hello All,
This is a very broad question so I understand that this may need to be broken down into individual questions eventually. Please listen and accept that I am coming from a position of ignorance.

I have not posted on here for a very long time. I used to be big into the Amiga scene having an A500, A600, and two A3000Ds plus external CD-ROM drives and monitors. I upgraded all the chips on the A3000s and was using Amiga OS 3.9. I eventually sold all of my Amigas around 2007 so I am not totally ignorant of the Amiga community.

I have been looking at the Amiga Community again and learning the latest about Amiga OS 4.x, 3.2, Apollo OS, Morph OS, and AROS. What I mean by that is that I know they exist and that they are still being updated and or created. I was surprised to learn of OS 3.2 as I assumed that branch of the OS was dead. So much the better.

Obviously the Amiga OS community has been fractured for quite some time and they all claim to be the best. Other than hardware compatibility, what does one do better than the other from an end user perspective? For instance, with the new Apollo Vampire accelerators, you have the 68080 chip which is 64 bit compatible and at least close to the speed of a PPC yet it is backwards compatible with the original software. Power PC chips are newer technology in general and there is brand new hardware being made. That is definitely nice. But as an end user that wants to go on the internet, play some games, word process, listen to music or watch videos, what difference does the version of OS make?

Does Amiga OS 3.2 do anything better than Apollo/AROS? Is Amiga OS 4.2 better that 3.2? Does Morph OS do anything better than the other OSes? I know that many Amiga faithful have gone to any one of these options and are emotionally invested in them. That is fine but I am not. What does your choice of Amiga OS do better than the others if anything?

I look forward to your answers with interest.

Last edited by prmetime on 11-Nov-2021 at 02:22 AM.

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BigD 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 10-Nov-2021 16:12:43
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@prmetime

I like AmigaOS 3.9 with BB 1 & 2. It works well enough with AmiDock and unarchiving apps straight out of the box. I'd like to try AmigaOS3.2 but will wait for my inherited A1200 before updating the Workbench 3.0 Roms which would need to be updated anyway. Regarding my OS3.9 machines; If it ain't broke then why fix it

Regarding IDEFix97, AsimCDFS and Oxypatcher, TurboPrint and the other additions that actually make the OS usable; you just get used to backing up the system at the point it is stable and until that point flooding your system with updates to the point you forget it's a bit of a third party software kludge of an operating system!

Workbench 3.1 is still a fall back for some flight sims such as TFX and Knights of the Sky! Napalm seems to prefer OS3.5 on my machines for null modem play

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AmigaOldskooler 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 10-Nov-2021 17:15:15
#3 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2015
Posts: 282
From: Unknown

@prmetime

With the new and regularly updated web browser "Wayfarer", I believe MorphOS has the best browser at the moment. It is highly compatible with modern websites. The OS also has a great e-mail program called "Iris".

The latest version of MorphOS came out in December 2020. A new SDK was released in February 2021.

You can run MorphOS on old PPC Macintosh computers, like PowerMac G5, PowerBook G4, Mac Mini G4 etc. I have a Mac Mini and a Powerbook myself and the OS runs great on those. AmigaOne X5000 and Sam460 also supports MorphOS.

AmigaOS 4.x on the other hand has better graphics capabilities than MorphOS (as far as I know), as it supports newer and more powerful graphics cards through the RadeonHD / Warp3D Nova software. Here we are talking video acceleration and good performance in the field of 3D gaming for example. A-Eon has done a brilliant job with this.

I have to go now, but I might write a bit more later.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 10-Nov-2021 17:23:29
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@prmetime

Quote:
you have the 68080 chip which is 64 bit compatible and at least close to the speed of a PPC yet it is backwards compatible with the original software.


that is lie, it not close to speed you get on a X5020 / X5040 / X1000,
a few things the 68080 is single core FPGA, not able to clocked up same speeds, a ASIC version of it might be, but too expensive. and 64bit MMX vs 128bit AltiVec. The FPU was also pretty dicey on 68080. In addition a Vampire cannot have Radeon RX/HD graphic card plugged in, does not have PCIe expiation slots, so you plug in modern hardware.

The 68080/Vampire targets the classic market, while the PowerPC computers are targeting modern hardware, and is willing give up on some of compatibility to archive greater speed and modern features.

The amount of RAM you can have installed is also huge difference, and you need it when surf the web, the Vampire is too slow on web, but X5000 is not too slow, and you need CPU power brute force JavaScript, as we do not have support GL accelerated CSS (rendering of webpages) or Web Assembly support, nor do we have JIT support for JavaScript. In short lot work too be done to make that fly..

In short what you should buy depends on how large wallet is, what you want to do with it, there is not one computer that does everything perfect.

this video shows you how good the Vampire is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWlfvcOOEQA

this video shows you what you can do with Sam460 / PowerPC computer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X75KbnOpZhA

the Sam460 is not the fastest PowerPC based computer, X50x0 is a lot faster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBNno1jsp_Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4MixYoYTgM

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Nov-2021 at 06:54 PM.
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Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Nov-2021 at 05:24 PM.

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prmetime 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 10-Nov-2021 17:49:56
#5 ]
Member
Joined: 22-Nov-2003
Posts: 32
From: Plymouth, MI

@BigD

I do remember OS3.9. I had that on my Amigas. That is why I am kind of surprised that OS3.2 exists.

So from the replies so far, OS 4.2 and Morph OS do a better job with web browsing and possibly email. From the other points of view, there may not be a big difference other than hardware compatibility.

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redfox 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 10-Nov-2021 17:52:11
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 2064
From: Canada

@prmetime

I commend you for your thoughtful post and questions.

I have some experience with OS4, OS 3.1, OS 3.2 and AROS.

I own an A2000HD running AmigaOS 3.1 … I enjoyed using that system.

I went directly from OS3.1 to OS4, so I never experienced the wonderful enhancements that came with OS3.5 and OS3.9.

I purchased my OS4 system near the end of 2004, and it became my go to Amiga system. For me, it was an easy transition from OS3.1 to OS4. The look and feel were similar, plus I had more RAM and a larger disk drive on my OS4 system.

AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition Update 2 + A-EON Enhancer Software

I use many system friendly 68K programs directly from OS4, such as
Final Writer 97, TVPaint and PPaint.

I use emulation for some very old programs that require the older Amiga features or hardware.

AmigaOS 3.1 running on E-UAE on OS4

AmigaOS 3.2 running on E-UAE on OS4

IMHO, AmigaOS 3.2 is an enhancement of AmigaOS 3.1, but it may not be for everyone. For example, OS3.2 might not be an enhancement for people who experienced OS3.5 or OS3.9.

I have tinkered with a AROS … AspireOS and Icaros. I like both.

Sadly, I never had a chance to use MorphOS.

Lastly, I have to admit that my MicroA1 is very old now. It has limitations with RAM and graphics capabilities. I try to keep it simple.

I use four web browsers on my OS4 system, AWeb, IBrowse, NetSurf and Odyssey.

I believe that Wayfarer for MorphOS is currently the best web browser available for any of these platforms.


redfox

Last edited by redfox on 10-Nov-2021 at 06:03 PM.
Last edited by redfox on 10-Nov-2021 at 05:57 PM.

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prmetime 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 10-Nov-2021 18:05:59
#7 ]
Member
Joined: 22-Nov-2003
Posts: 32
From: Plymouth, MI

@redfox

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I enjoyed using OS 3.9 but I don’t know if I could tell you any real big differences from 3.1 other than the dock and nicer icons. I appreciate your explanation of the differences that you stated.

Another question. I had Final Writer and Final Calc which I sold years ago. Can you still get copies of that software?

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redfox 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 10-Nov-2021 18:49:55
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 2064
From: Canada

@prmetime

Update ...

I purchased my copy of Final Writer 97 for the A2000HD, and transferred it to my OS4 system years later.

Not sure if it is still possible to purchase Final Writer or Final Calc.

Terminills is working on an updated version of Final Writer.

I forgot to mention that there is no AmigaOS 4.2 yet, unless the beta testers know different.

AmigaOS 4.1 is for PowerPC processors.

AmigaOS 3.2 is for 68K processors (so called Classic Amigas).

I purchased AmigaOS 3.2 CD and ROM chip, with the intention of upgrading my ancient A2000HD. Then I decided to test it out under emulation before I committed the time and effort to take apart such an old computer.

AmigaOS 3.2 seems to work fine under emulation on my OS4 system. I use E-UAE and the A2000 ROM from the AmigaOS 3.2 CD. E-UAE is the glue that ties it all together.


redfox

(snipped some off topic babble)





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Chris_Y 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 10-Nov-2021 22:51:33
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3203
From: Beds, UK

@prmetime

Quote:
I do remember OS3.9. I had that on my Amigas. That is why I am kind of surprised that OS3.2 exists.


OS3.2 is an upgrade over 3.9. It doesn't have some of the fluff of 3.9, but it does have many bug fixes and improvements - ReAction especially is much enhanced. It's called 3.2 because they started from OS3.1 as a base, as the source to much of what is in 3.5/3.9 wasn't available.

Most of what is missing is replaceable by 3rd party stuff on Aminet. The core OS is better, which is the important bit.

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BigD 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 11-Nov-2021 0:28:35
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Chris_Y

... and yet it STILL needs TurboPrint and a grab of AmiDock off the OS3.9 CD-Rom to replicate a good usable retro home office system IMHO.

The main improvements that OS3.2 make (from the AmiWest demo) are:

- Mountable ADFs as standard (nice)
- A help system (useful)
- Improved datatypes (always good)*

*This may include support for PDFs as standard (not confirmed - it is a key selling point so the fact this isn't being crowed about probably means I'm mistaken )

... everything else is "fluff" IMHO!

Backwards steps:

- several components in Prefs
- Exchange
- HDToolBox
- IconEdit
- Mounter
- Calculator
- AmiDock missing
- PlayCD missing

P.S. Considering the time that has passed since OS3.9 it's all reinventing the wheel and back porting from AmigaOS4.x in order to keep Hyperion afloat financially as far as I can see. Not that the developers want to look at the situation in that 'big picture' kind of way as they are just happy to be able to 'play' with the code and good luck to them as everyone needs a hobby

Last edited by BigD on 11-Nov-2021 at 12:42 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 11-Nov-2021 at 12:36 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 11-Nov-2021 at 12:33 AM.

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prmetime 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 11-Nov-2021 2:16:57
#11 ]
Member
Joined: 22-Nov-2003
Posts: 32
From: Plymouth, MI

@BigD and Chris_Y,
Interesting that Amiga OS 3.2 is considered an upgrade over 3.9. I remember going from Amiga OS 1.3 to 2.0, then 2.1, then 3.5, and finally 3.9. From an end users point of view, I didn’t necessarily notice a lot of differences in the versions of the OS. Sure there were things that were fixed. Especially going to 3.5 and 3.9, you had some improvements in looks and some utilities (Like a CD and Video player). So much of the development and upgrades are behind the GUI that u less you are doing something specifically with that item, you don’t really notice. That is why I asked my question.

So if I was to purchase a used classic Amiga, I take it that you would recommend Amiga OS 3.2 instead of installing Amiga OS3.9?

Last edited by prmetime on 11-Nov-2021 at 02:21 AM.

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QuikSanz 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 11-Nov-2021 2:42:50
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1236
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@prmetime,

On a 68000 machine OS3.9 Will not work but 3.2 will. On a 3.9 machine must have 68020., and will be sluggish.

Chris

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agami 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 11-Nov-2021 6:05:04
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@prmetime

I run Amiga OS 3.9 with BB1 and BB2 updates on my A1200 and A4000. I turn on the A4000 most often for some retro gaming.

I run ApolloOS (AROS 68k) on the Vampire V4+ Standalone. It ships with it.

I have tried MorphOS on my G4 PowerBook and Mac mini. Never enough reason to stick with it.

I have tried AmigaOS 4.1 (4.2 isn't out yet) under emulation in WinUAE on my gaming PC. Again, not enough there for me to stick with it.

As for all other hardware capable of running AmigaOS 4.1, I could never justify the expense to myself.

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agami 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 11-Nov-2021 6:15:34
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@prmetime

Quote:
So if I was to purchase a used classic Amiga, I take it that you would recommend Amiga OS 3.2 instead of installing Amiga OS3.9?


Depends on the which classic Amiga you get, and how much time you have on your hands.

I guess you could say that OS 3.1.4 and OS3.2 from Hyperion Entertainment are more like actual updates to Amiga OS 3.1.

Amiga OS 3.5 and OS 3.9 from Haage & Partner are more like OS 3.1 with a lot of bundled patches and add-ons, which is one of the reasons the minimum CPU is 68020. These also require a CD-ROM drive.

Last edited by agami on 13-Dec-2021 at 01:17 AM.

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olsen 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 11-Nov-2021 13:22:56
#15 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 774
From: Germany

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@Chris_Y

... and yet it STILL needs TurboPrint and a grab of AmiDock off the OS3.9 CD-Rom to replicate a good usable retro home office system IMHO.

The main improvements that OS3.2 make (from the AmiWest demo) are:

- Mountable ADFs as standard (nice)
- A help system (useful)
- Improved datatypes (always good)*

*This may include support for PDFs as standard (not confirmed - it is a key selling point so the fact this isn't being crowed about probably means I'm mistaken )

... everything else is "fluff" IMHO!


Nobody ever mentions the epic "Disk Doctor" which landed in AmigaOS 3.2. So sad

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matthey 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 11-Nov-2021 16:23:50
#16 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1968
From: Kansas

BigD Quote:

... and yet it STILL needs TurboPrint and a grab of AmiDock off the OS3.9 CD-Rom to replicate a good usable retro home office system IMHO.

The main improvements that OS3.2 make (from the AmiWest demo) are:

- Mountable ADFs as standard (nice)
- A help system (useful)
- Improved datatypes (always good)*


- ReAction with many bug fixes
- new ReAction based editor
- font sensitive and scalable Gadtools
- new Intuition library and Workbench allow off screen windows dragging
- new layers.library is a big improvement but also found on Aminet
- most up to date gfx card compatibility but P96 not included
- new console/shell features
- more modern drive support
- new DiskDoctor for FFS
- new CD-ROM support
- new ROMs are possible
- new bootmenu options
- new prefs settings but not as pretty as AmigaOS 3.9 prefs
- improved printer drivers and custom printer driver and unit support with multiple printers possible
- env-handler/happy-env support built in
- Multiview improved
- commodity improvements
- improved find
- improved CLI commands
- many bug fixes

The AmigaOS 3.2 developers did more work than you give them credit for. AmigaOS 3.2 has surpassed AmigaOS 3.9 in many ways but not all.

Cloanto/Amiga Corporation tried to make AmigaOS 3.2 available as a free upgrade. It is possible that it could end up free if the Amiga parties win a lawsuit against Hyperion. If the judgement went the other way, maybe Amiga Corporation could fulfill the AmigaOS 3.9 contract between Amiga Inc. and Haage and Partner to obtain the source code to AmigaOS 3.9 and release AmigaOS 4.2 for the 68k. AeonKit is working on their own Enhancer AmigaOS replacement for both the 68k and PPC. Maybe Amiga Corporations wipes out the competition with their free 68k AmigaOS 4.2 or maybe Amiga Corporation and AeonKit could team up. The only thing that can be counted on is that everyone won't work together.

@olsen
Funny enough that I was typing this early this morning and the electricity went out (no storm although there was one last night knocking out the electricity twice). Yes, DiskDoctor was already on my list.

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kolla 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 11-Nov-2021 19:36:13
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

Main issue with DiskDoctor is that it doesn’t doctor disks…

Maybe FileRescue would be a better name?

But really, I never have any need for it, backups and Format is just much quicker.

And here’s an old bug still present in 3.2…

https://youtu.be/L-TNqcvFnSE

Last edited by kolla on 11-Nov-2021 at 07:47 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 11-Nov-2021 20:38:53
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@olsen

Quote:

olsen wrote:
@BigD

Nobody ever mentions the epic "Disk Doctor" which landed in AmigaOS 3.2. So sad


DiskMonTools works fine (though slowly) for FFS partitions >4GB, so another recovery program is hardly a killer app

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jPV 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 11-Nov-2021 20:40:07
#19 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Apr-2005
Posts: 809
From: .fi

@prmetime

Quote:
So from the replies so far, OS 4.2 and Morph OS do a better job with web browsing and possibly email. From the other points of view, there may not be a big difference other than hardware compatibility.

MorphOS and OS4 are a step up/forward about everything on OS side compared to 68k systems. For example, they have more modern 3D accelerated layers systems, which doesn't slow down with overlapping windows like OS3 does, and allow more eye candy. They are more configurable by skins and about all options without using hacks to patch the system. They are way more ready to be used out of the box with support for USB, networking, and all you'd expect to be able to use nowadays.

MorphOS has a completely new memory system which doesn't suffer from fragmentation. For example, OS3 will start to crawl with longer uptimes when you run more complex programs on it, but that doesn't happen on MorphOS. Also GUI toolkits, other frameworks, and driver systems have been progressed much from the 68k versions (CyberGraphX, MUI, Poseidon, TCP/IP stacks, printing support, etc). There are loots of new shell commands, scripting languages (well-integrated Lua to replace ARexx), etc, etc. On MorphOS I also love Screenbar Modules which allow you to populate the screenbar, which would be mostly empty on nowadays' resolutions, with all kind of information and functionality... these modules even work on several screens and not just on the main OS screen. You also get much better development and built-in debugging features, which help to make the system more stable. Support for all kind of file formats is better, and you can use modern formats for icons (for example PNG and SVG icons)... oh and iconless icons are cool too, they take icon graphics from default icons and makes it much better for theming without needing to change graphics in the actual thousands of icon files...

And there's much more that I forget now, and of course some really cool programs that aren't available for 68k... but just a quick burst of things that came in my mind to tell that "just having a new browser" is a bit understatment regarding the original question, even though important. I just couldn't move my daily computing from MorphOS back to OS3 any more, and not that easily to other options either...

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g01df1sh 
Re: Amiga OS versions and what makes them different/better
Posted on 11-Nov-2021 21:44:33
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1777
From: UK

The biggest problem with OS4 is you cant buy any hardware to run it on.

Very rare on ebay
A1222 still waiting
X5000 crazy price if you can find a retailer with stock
X1000 no produced any more.

PPC is dead

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