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      /  Why I love NG?
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ppcamiga1 
Why I love NG?
Posted on 18-Dec-2021 21:27:53
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 409
From: Unknown

I love NG beacuse it is the same Amiga as from Commodore only better beacuse faster.

As a software developer I don't care about cpu in Amiga as long it is big endian cpu.
First it allows binary integration, second it is not a pc.
So use what You want 68k, ppc, sparc, mainframe, intel itanium.
live and let other live.

As a software developer I don't care if Amiga has chipset.
Amiga chipset has no function for chunky 256 or hi color.
Everything can be done faster on Commodore Amiga by cpu.
Whats the diference who made Amiga graphics?
Commodore, 3dfx, amd, in 256 or hi color it no matter.
Use what you want and let others use as they want.

big endian cpu, os comaptible enough, fast graphics.
It has chunky pixels, it has mmu, it has hdd, it has net? That's enough.
I don't need it to be as fast as pc.

That's whay I love and use NG.

Make peace not war.


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tonyw 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 18-Dec-2021 22:02:45
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3222
From: Sydney (of course)

@ppcamiga1

I love programming for the Amiga. As a retired professional, I expect to be able to get the machine to do what I want - what others want. Only the Amiga gives me that freedom.

Programming for the 68k Classic machines was great 35 years ago, but it had its limitations in the OS and I didn't have access to the source code then. These days I not only have access to all the soure code, I wrote some of it, and I understand how most of it works.

So when I want my Amigas to do something they can't do, I can make them do it. No other platform allows me that freedom or that satisfaction.

_________________
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tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 18-Dec-2021 22:59:43
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12005
From: Norway

@ppcamiga1

Well, perfect mix, its modern can learn something new, can do the old stuff, its fast.
Maybe not best for old stuff, but can port recompile almost anything that’s open source.

What people don’t get about big endianness, is that makes things so easy when comes to converting old code, or even running old programs native.
its not that can be done on anything else, but its more work.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Dec-2021 at 11:03 PM.

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amigang 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 18-Dec-2021 23:24:21
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1734
From: Cheshire, England

I’ve always wanted a next gen Amiga, I never really cared what the cpu / chipset it is, as long as it carries the same values and community.

I don’t want to be stuck at just 90s software I want simple modern day standards, like the os to at least run and look modern on hd / 1080p display, have a modern day browser, play hd video, able to handle modern standards like pdf, mp4, MP3, etc

Os4 is dam close to this dream, but it has problems in being able to keep up with all modern standards, particularly the Internet and now has a uncertain future thanks to Hyperion / aeon separating cause more bugs and issue and being on end of life expensive ppc hardware. Yes I said I don’t care that os4 is on Ppc and for me using on my x1000 it doesn’t matter, but in the bigger context the fact that no one can buy an x1000 now and x5000 are getting rare does effect the overall health of the market and its long term outlook. So I guess I kinda do care but maybe not in the way many think. If you get me.

Basically if a ppc board could be made for £40 that had similar performance to the pi, that would be amazing and I think this whole arm vs x86 vs ppc debate would end.

Last edited by amigang on 18-Dec-2021 at 11:29 PM.

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bison 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 18-Dec-2021 23:38:43
#5 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1959
From: N-Space

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
As a software developer I don't care about cpu in Amiga as long it is big endian cpu.

I don't even care about the endianness, since the user can't tell the difference one way or the other.

Last edited by bison on 18-Dec-2021 at 11:40 PM.

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agami 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 19-Dec-2021 2:49:59
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 733
From: Melbourne, Australia

@ppcamiga1

Everything you said pretty much applies to the use of Vampire V4 Standalone with ApolloOS (AROS).

Here let me show you. I'll just change NG to Vampire V4 Standalone, and will not even correct any spelling:

I love Vampire V4 Standalone beacuse it is the same Amiga as from Commodore only better beacuse faster.

As a software developer I don't care about cpu in Amiga as long it is big endian cpu.
First it allows binary integration, second it is not a pc.
So use what You want 68k, ppc, sparc, mainframe, intel itanium.
live and let other live.

As a software developer I don't care if Amiga has chipset.
Amiga chipset has no function for chunky 256 or hi color.
Everything can be done faster on Commodore Amiga by cpu.
Whats the diference who made Amiga graphics?
Commodore, 3dfx, amd, in 256 or hi color it no matter.
Use what you want and let others use as they want.

big endian cpu, os comaptible enough, fast graphics.
It has chunky pixels, it has mmu, it has hdd, it has net? That's enough.
I don't need it to be as fast as pc.

That's whay I love and use Vampire V4 Standalone

So why don't you love Vampire V4 Standalone? It checks all your criteria.
Also, it costs less than (new/used) X1000 or X5000, and is available for purchase.

Those were rhetorical questions, you don't actually need to answer them.
The reason is: You are experiencing the Sunk Cost Fallacy.

Last edited by agami on 19-Dec-2021 at 02:50 AM.

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agami 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 19-Dec-2021 2:54:07
#7 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 733
From: Melbourne, Australia

@amigang

Quote:
Basically if a ppc board could be made for £40 that had similar performance to the pi,


That's one big if

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Trixie 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 19-Dec-2021 6:34:30
#8 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2037
From: Czech Republic

@agami

Quote:
So why don't you love Vampire V4 Standalone?

Perhaps because that's a different machine that meets different expectations and answers different needs.

Quote:
The reason is: You are experiencing the Sunk Cost Fallacy.

Or maybe he simply enjoys the system he has chosen, like others enjoy theirs.

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AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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pavlor 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 19-Dec-2021 8:25:42
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9302
From: Unknown

@Trixie

Quote:
Or maybe he simply enjoys the system he has chosen, like others enjoy theirs.


Exactly!

I like OS4 user interface, love playing old Amiga games (Populous 2 Challenge Games right now) and enjoy programming in AMOS. Classic and NG, I adore them both.

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matthey 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 19-Dec-2021 9:16:11
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1297
From: Kansas

amigang Quote:

Basically if a ppc board could be made for £40 that had similar performance to the pi,


gami Quote:

That's one big if


It should be possible to produce a Raspberry Pi like PPC board for £40. The FleaFPGA ohm was $45 U.S. without mass production. Using an ASIC SoC should greatly increase the performance while reducing the production cost. Instead of a $10 FPGA, a $10 ASIC SoC should allow a SoC at least on par with the original Raspberry Pi. The Raspberry Pi Pico is $4 so the very simple RP2040 ASIC with dual Cortex-M0+ (Thumb) ARM cores costs less to produce. A fairly modern PPC design could likely be licensed at a discount considering the swift demise of PPC. The big problem is selling enough PPC SoCs to support mass production. AmigaOne sales certainly don't point to robust PPC sales. Amiga demand seems to be for the 68k where an SoC could be used for retro hardware especially for retro recreations like an Amiga mini and/or maxi.

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OlafS25 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 19-Dec-2021 9:45:06
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5983
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

What amiga software is from you?

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kolla 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 19-Dec-2021 10:31:40
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1913
From: Trondheim, Norway

@matthey

PowerPC is also "retro", I’m sure there would be more general interest in something that can run MacOS9 than OS4 or even 68k Amiga,

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

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ppcamiga1 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 19-Dec-2021 11:07:11
#13 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 409
From: Unknown

@agami

I have Vampire V2.
It nas hot MMU and 3D.
FPU is not standard and not work with code generated by gcc.
Vampire V2 real performance is about 75 MHz of 68060.
(NBench Amiga 060 50 MHz results is mem 0.175 int 0.215 fpu 0.096
Vampire V2 mem 0.210 int 0.307 fpu with soft float 0.060).
Vampire V2 get 15.1 fps in Quake I timedemo in 320x240.
But after all it is nice 68k NG.
I prefer ppc NG because of speed, MMU, FPU, 3D.
But from time to time I use my V2.

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 19-Dec-2021 at 11:08 AM.

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kamelito 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 19-Dec-2021 13:22:06
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 785
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

IIRC the CD32 do have chunky 256 right?

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kolla 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 19-Dec-2021 15:06:52
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1913
From: Trondheim, Norway

@kamelito

No, it just has a simple chunky2planar capability in the Akiko chip, all modes are still planar, same old AGA.

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Rob 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 19-Dec-2021 15:17:40
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6106
From: S.Wales

@kamelito

Quote:
IIRC the CD32 do have chunky 256 right?


It does chunky to planar conversion in hardware but there is no actual chunky mode.

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OldFart 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 19-Dec-2021 16:24:20
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 2989
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
I love NG...

But in Amiga wonderland I expect NGH: Not Gonna Happen...

Keep dreamin' my friend, keep dreamin'.

OldFart

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matthey 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 19-Dec-2021 21:04:09
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1297
From: Kansas

kolla Quote:

PowerPC is also "retro", I’m sure there would be more general interest in something that can run MacOS9 than OS4 or even 68k Amiga,


PPC is outdated and already forgotten while the 68k is retro and forever loved. The 68k is fun, easy to use, has compact code yet is modern enough to have good performance. What other architecture had fans chanting "68000, 68000, 68000"?

Thomas Gunter Quote:

But my favorite story that I will take to my true retirement is Bob Galvin—but in the same way that you guys respect Noyce and Moore, all of us that were, particularly that were corporate officers have this fundamental respect for Bob Galvin. He pulled me aside one day and he said, "Tom," he said, "I want to tell you something." He said, "One of the," he didn't have to come up with this, he said, "One of the proudest day I ever had with Motorola..." He was traveling to China; that's when we tried to open up China. He got off the plane to talk to a bunch of youngsters. What happened, they saw him off and he was introduced as the head of Motorola, and they started chanting, "68000, 68000, 68000."


http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/Motorola_68000/102658164.05.01.acc.pdf

China didn't even have strong market penetration by the 68k (the 68k was much more popular in Japan). Foreign market penetration into China, especially with consumer products, is huge due to the nearly 1.5 billion population.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 19-Dec-2021 22:01:48
#19 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 409
From: Unknown

@matthey

matthey stop this crap.
68k is not as fast as ppc.
Prices of ASIC 68k with MMU and FPU are pure BS compared to prices od ppc.
FPGA 68k still has not compatible MMU and FPU.
68k is not good enough to jusftiy resignation from ppc and will be not by many years.

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OlafS25 
Re: Why I love NG?
Posted on 19-Dec-2021 22:23:27
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5983
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

I have discussed with amiga game developers... it is similar to the attitude of demo developers. They like the "limitations" of the old hardware, to be magicians who can do something most others are not able to. Even Vampire is already too modern to them. That is the reason why we not have new games that are specially using new features. The only exception are ports from PC world like Blood and many others. The same is true for your preferred hardware platform PPC. It is perhaps faster as current 68k hardware (we will see what PiStorm will offer in future and what Vampire will bring) but it is still not comparable to modern hardware. And it lacks the "fun factor" 68k offers (expecially the old hardware). So in short... I do not see changes there, at least not until the user base is a lot bigger and attracts additional indy developers from outside. Currently we have what we have. For current developers the "fun factor" developing on the chipset is most important and I was told that most sales are on classic hardware (A500/A1200) on disc. They do not believe there is a big market for games special for new hardware like Vampire with its advanced chipset features. I personal have different attitudes but I think I am exotic in current community. And you are exotic too...

Last edited by OlafS25 on 19-Dec-2021 at 11:51 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 19-Dec-2021 at 11:45 PM.

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