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Poll : So what do you think of the AmigaONE X1000?
Success
Failer
Steping Stone
What is X?
Where is OS4.2?
Pancakes
Another Bloody Poll!!
 
PosterThread
klx300r 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 5-Mar-2022 21:40:39
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3833
From: Toronto, Canada

@amigakit

will be amazing to be litigation free in Amiga land 'one sweet day' !

_________________
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c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
mancave-ramblings
X1000 I BELIEVE

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agami 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 6-Mar-2022 0:43:35
#22 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@OlafS25

Quote:
X1000 was the right product at its time.

This statement is highly debatable and I will not get into it right now as it's not on topic. But you have spurred me to write a little essay on all the ways it was certainly not.

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agami 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 6-Mar-2022 1:03:02
#23 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@abalaban

Quote:
there is no broken promise from A-EON about Xorro/Xena

I listed multiple categories.
Xorro/Xena is in the category of strategic and tactical missteps.

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umisef 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 6-Mar-2022 7:27:44
#24 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1714
From: Melbourne, Australia

@BigD

Let's not revise history...

From the Wikipedia page for the X1000:
Quote:
The first prototype machines were manufactured during mid-2009 and Hyperion Entertainment began the process of porting the AmigaOS to the X1000 in late 2009.


And from the one for P.A.Semi:
Quote:
On 23 April 2008, Apple announced that they had acquired P. A. Semi.

and
Quote:
On 11 June 2008, [...] P.A. Semi has said that they were willing to supply their PWRficient PA6T-1682M chip on an end-of-life basis


The X1000 was a boondoggle from the very start, because it was designed around a processor which was EOL at the time of design.

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kamelito 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 6-Mar-2022 7:28:51
#25 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 813
From: Unknown

It is a success since a final product was build from scratch that deliver, even a commercial success knowing how small the Amiga base is.

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Rob 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 6-Mar-2022 8:00:27
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@kamelito

Trevor was unable to recover the development costs so it can't be considered a commercial success, even in Amiga terms.

Last edited by Rob on 06-Mar-2022 at 10:21 AM.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 6-Mar-2022 8:15:45
#27 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1200
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

Quote:

Rob wrote:
@kamelito

Trevor was unable to development costs so it can't be considered a commercial success, even in Amiga terms.


Any product,
story,
sentence that starts with "Trevor" can't possibly relate to commercial success.

When you typed "Trevor" and then "success", the spell checker should have suggested
maybe you wanted to type...

- quaffing pints of blood
- scavenging for rotten corpses
- feasting on mounds of wet trash
- rivulets of malodorous ichor running from mouths full of pointy teeth


Alas, I doubt any spell checker works on Amiga,
as proven by 90% of Amigaworld dot net's posts.



/mega!



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Rob 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 6-Mar-2022 10:28:03
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Quote:
sentence that starts with "Trevor" can't possibly relate to commercial success.


He got his money frm somewhere.

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amigang 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 6-Mar-2022 10:51:02
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 2018
From: Cheshire, England

@umisef

I thought it was 2010, but your right that does seem even odder to start the project when PPC chip was eol. But I sure i remember reading that Varisys had to talk with apple and even spoke with Steve jobs to get the cpu made/released for x1000 use.

So the original contract or commitment to the CPU supply must of changed from the beginning of the project to the end. Who knows maybe even it was promised that the CPU design was to be released and made by another company at a much cheaper costs, but then they changed their minds. I hope the Vampires Book Volume 2 sheds light as to what happened.

Last edited by amigang on 06-Mar-2022 at 11:29 AM.

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Trixie 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 6-Mar-2022 15:52:58
#30 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2089
From: Czech Republic

@amigang

Quote:
I hope the Vampires Book Volume 2 sheds light as to what happened.

I'd much rather see Trevor at the helm, actually managing his projects rather than writing another book.

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mbrantley 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 6-Mar-2022 19:12:41
#31 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Jun-2010
Posts: 559
From: Mobile, Alabama, United States

Wow, 10 years. I have two X1000s here -- a black one and a white one. Collect them all! LOL! Military spec CPU -- can ward off attacks by Atari users. Hehe.

Seriously, in hindsight and despite all efforts, the full promises and dreams that came with this project have not been realized. But, I have no regrets. Truth be told, I had more disposable funds a decade ago than I do now. I could not and would not buy into such a project now. But I did then and I still have my machine and its backup and will continue to obtain enjoyment from them. A few months ago, when I had some bills to pay and was quite down on things related to Amiga NG, I looked into selling these things. Couldn't get what I needed to buy me out, so I'm sticking.

Looking back at all the stuff being touted a decade ago -- dual core, Xena, and -- ahem -- bloody ethernet chip, I see our devoted developers ran into some insurmountable mountains. I've given up on expecting these things. A decently modern web browser would be the thing people desperately want now, and any OS4 strategist not putting full resources into that problem is very much going down the wrong path.

It does seem that the things OS4 users ask for repeatedly -- modern web browser and a laptop form computer -- are the very things that are NOT worked on. Head scratching stuff, really. Am almost tempted to put this paragraph on bold for emphasis. Come on.

These days I muck around and play some games and chat on IRC channels and play music and podcasts and read comic books on the X1000. I need to send that rnocomics fella a nice note at least. I'd like to be able to play 1080p or better videos on the X1000 so holding out hope for that. With my more-than-capable current R9 270 graphics card and supporting software I am somehow stuck in a 720p world still while my X5000 and Sam460 brethren seem to have gone beyond this.

Anyway, am getting great pleasure in recent years with my Vampire and Firebird accelerated classic Amigas and the 68K and OS3.x resurgence that has come along with these and similar projects. Also have been building and using Intel and AMD based computers to run Windows and Linux and have revived and upgraded a decade old MacPro tower. Not sure what the OS4 and PPC world will offer as an ongoing movement. I cannot imagine me buying more hardware while my current X1000 computers are not yet fully supported in terms of their possibilities. But I'll happily invest in more software. Note, please, that this means new and upgraded applications, utilities and games. Not duplications of OS elements and certainly not more docks and calendars and screen candies. True HD and 4K video for my hardware can get my money. A real video editor to go along with that, please. A modern web browser. An upgraded FinalWriter and ImageFX. Sketchblock and MediaVault improvements are good progress, so thank you to my friends Andy and George for those. And the latest Hollywood Designer update was major and big deal appreciated, so thanks to Andreas. I will continue to be your customer.

So, the state of things and my mindset a decade after the X1000: I'm not down and I'm not bitter. I'm not an optimistic fanboy either. I have these tools -- er, I mean toys. And I will play with them. Am not expecting anything at all, but will gladly take and appreciate anything good that comes.

Viva Amiga!


Last edited by mbrantley on 06-Mar-2022 at 07:28 PM.

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Neuf 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 6-Mar-2022 23:24:30
#32 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Apr-2017
Posts: 46
From: Unknown

@amigakit

I have read your comments and basically wish to say, that finally, someone is taking the right approach to improving theOS. I've been aware of the deficiencies of OS4.x for many years now. And forOS3.x since Commodore had the gall to ship that product. The Graphics subsystem has always been problematic since the Amiga first came out. I should point out that the chipset is not the problem, but the mess someone made out of the graphics software. It would be relatively easy to make a modern chipset. It would be unnecessarily expensive however. All modern computers use graphics cards.

I've had the privilege of using OS4.1 in two different settings. I've used it with an emulator and on a friend of mine's SAM 460. On the SAM, I've used both without an Enhancer package and with an Enhancer package(1.2 I believe). I've seen the before and after. There isn't really much to say about running it on the emulator.

Once you have the graphics subsystem right you will find out that a lot of coders will want to code for the Amiga. As I said at the beginning this has been a terrible headache for the Amiga since Commodore first tried to sell th A1000.

I understand that your work may lead to a new OS. If that is correct, I can suggest lots more areas that need work.but you are definitely starting in the right place. Let me wish you the best of luck in your endeavour.

Harold

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 7-Mar-2022 1:26:32
#33 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1200
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

Quote:

Rob wrote:
@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Quote:
sentence that starts with "Trevor" can't possibly relate to commercial success.


He got his money frm somewhere.


From being in the right place at the right time, my friend.
In the vilest industry, at the time when the world needed it the most.

And let me tell you, friend Rob, regardless - this equation "Wealthy = Successful" is what makes this world of ours a miserable place to live in. And miserable are the people who perpetuate it.

/m

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agami 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 7-Mar-2022 1:55:41
#34 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Rob

Quote:
He got his money frm somewhere.

You make it sound like the only place from which to get money, is commercial success.

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agami 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 7-Mar-2022 1:59:48
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Friend MEGA_RJ_MICAL,
I thought I had it in for Trevor, mostly focusing on the apparent lack of business pragmatism when it comes to his ideas and execution surrounding A-Eon and Amiga, but you sir, you take it to another level.

I tip my hat to you.

Last edited by agami on 08-Mar-2022 at 01:09 AM.

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Hypex 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 7-Mar-2022 4:08:38
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@amigang

Hard to believe it's been so long. My XE was barely 5 years old before I bought an X1000 to replace it. My X1000 would now be ten years old but it's barely five years ago that I really started using it. Given Amiga hardware tended to last ten years and lasting only five years now is more realistic it's about time my X1000 was up for replacement.

Was it a success? I tend to think it was. After Eyetech dropped out ACube filled the void. But they only produced boards with embedded CPUs that were barely faster than an 800Mhz XE. The X1000 featured a 1.8Ghz 64-bit CPU. It was stable. It had four SATA slots, four RAM slots and a host of USB ports. It's like a Sinead O'Connor song. Nothing compares.

There is rarely an X1000 on the market. But do they keep value? Hard to say. The XE kept it's value for a while. But now would be worth less than a full on Amiga setup that is also slower.

It did have some issues. Early boards had a power fault that shorted out a simple IC component and rendered it dead. It uses the same battery design so a slightly off battery will block it from working. Though it has diagnostic lights once it stops working it's hard to know what the problem is. IF you don;t have a serial terminal you're in the dark. Then there is CFE. The strange Frankenstein hybrid of Broadcom code and OpenFirmware. It's buggy and dropping to a command line after running a binary will crash. It gives out of memory errors when it can't find a drive. The CLI is faulty and corrupts text. Internally CFE can't scan system drives for autoboot. It's too slow to boot and spends too much time stuffing about before it looks for a boot loader. If there is a hardware problem it will crash on boot instead of checking the hardware. It can go into a constantly crashing reboot loop even if the system was fine.

The boot loader was harder to manage. On the XE you had to load the boot block in with Media Toolbox. But on CFE they decided to use a file on a boot volume. But they only made it easy on themselves and harder on the user. Even now there is no standard way to update it. In reality the user should not have to install a boot block or boot partition, it shouldn't matter, it should have been hidden away by Media Toolbox doing the dirty work in the install drive process.

But it did bring AmigaBoot. Which one redeeming feature was being able to scan and merge all Kicklayouts. With SLB only reading one and adding menu items meant to manually add them by hand as there was no manager provided. So being able easily select OS4 installs was a bonus. But, OS4 can't set CFE variables. So setting up CFE is more manual work.

Xena? I think this was mostly a gimmick. It was interesting and good it could be plugged into. But of limited use to most people. Not powerful enough to simulate AGA and be the Amiga on a chipset the X1000 really needed to hook into the Amiga scene. Nor even offload a CIA simulator.

OS4.2? Yeah that was somewhat disappointing. Especially when told we had to buy OS4.1 FE and then we would receive OS4.2 after they moved the goal posts. But, a lot of what ended up in FE was planned for 4.2. So OS4.1 FE is kind of a poor mans OS 4.2. It also marked a downfall as well. Since FE there is no complete OS4 CD. Drivers were split off. Included software broke and now has to be bought with Enhancer. FE can't be used as a rescue CD with a modern video card. Unlike the older releases that kept up with OEM drivers.

But what annoyed me the most about 4.2 was being told I would get it for free with a special deal and then told I had to buy another product to be entitled. What is it ten tears now and I'm still waiting? It's obvious this was under a false pretence. 4.2 didn't even exist back then. Instead they bullshitted us around with this OS4.2 free crap. If you can't offer a free product with a deal then don't offer it in the first place! That just pisses people off! The product should stand on its own. And now you can see how annoyed I was as I'm swearing now.

Dual core? That was planned since the dual core module for the XE 15 years ago now? Then there was the X kernel. Now there is another kernel in testing. I simply wouldn't expect it. AmigaOS has too many flaws to make this a reality. They need to overcome so many roadblocks. It just isn't designed to be that way. If they wanted it they should have fixed the problems when porting to PPC. 4.1 in the least. Not thought about it after. And even then, there is still the 64-bit memory problem. For this kind of reason is why Apple dumped MacOS and replaced it with MacOSX. But at least you can run Linux with fuil support!

Linux? Oh no not again. It's still too hard to install it and there is no autoboot Linux CD!

Another point of contention. Linux supports the hardware and net runs at full speed. OS4 lacks inbuilt net driver and OS4 net drivers run at crippled speed.

EOL CPU? Well where else would you get a decent Ghz speed 64-bit desktop class CPU? IBM? Morotola? Freescale? Ha!

So in late 2016 out comes the X5000. Less than 5 years have passed since the X1000. It's got DDR3 but is only 200Mhz faster. And it lacks AltiVec. The board only has two SATA ports. That X1000 EOL CPU is still looking pretty good. No real replacement yet. But it's been ten years now...

Last edited by Hypex on 07-Mar-2022 at 04:25 AM.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 7-Mar-2022 5:59:54
#37 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1200
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

@agami

friend agami,

I simply have no (...)

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Rob 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 7-Mar-2022 7:24:22
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@agami

Quote:
You make it sound like the only place from which to get money, is commercial success.


Yeah but there's no point in giving the Fake RJ a longer explanation.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 7-Mar-2022 8:04:45
#39 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1200
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

@Rob

Silence, filth

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amigakit 
Re: AmigaONE X1000 Tenth Anniversay
Posted on 7-Mar-2022 11:56:44
#40 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2515
From: www.amigakit.com

@mbrantley

Quote:
Not duplications of OS elements


Well any derivative work based Commodore's original OS code have been the source of legal issues for decades and continues to be. Unfortunately OS4 falls into this category.

Users cannot wait forever for updates and for legal disputes to stop. As a consequence new replacement components have developed that are not derivatives of this legacy source code. Some OS4 purists call this "reinventing the wheel". It had to be done. By doing this these new components are free from legal limbo. They can be freely updated at any time with the added benefit of having the freedom to define the features, and set the release date. OS4.1 Update 2 was made available 14 months ago - that was a collection of 5 years of minor bug fixes which were stagnating, unreleased after beta test. Following the Hyperion management leaving, it took some efforts by a few volunteers to get it finally released to end-users. A stark contrast with the Enhancer Software project where components can be released and upgraded frequently.

Quote:
and certainly not more docks and calendars and screen candies.


Candi made its debut in the Enhancer Software 1.0 on 1st May 2016
Calendar made its debut in the Enhancer Software 1.1 on 31st August 2016
X-Dock made its debut in the Enhancer Software 1.2 on 27th December 2016

That was a very long time ago and many other components have been added to the Enhancer Software since then. Check out the latest Version 2.1 which features amazing new functionality such as Video Acceleration, updated Warp3D Nova, upgrades to Archiver, MultiEdit and MultiViewer- plus much, much more.

Quote:
True HD and 4K video for my hardware can get my money.


That already exists in the latest Enhancer Software V2.1 - however X1000 need a firmware upgrade to use Polaris cards. This is nothing to do with the Enhancer Software- it is purely a firmware issue.

Last edited by amigakit on 07-Mar-2022 at 12:02 PM.
Last edited by amigakit on 07-Mar-2022 at 12:00 PM.

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