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kolla 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 1-Apr-2022 23:11:19
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2093
From: Trondheim, Norway

Now that Chinese leadership have witnessed Russian military capabilities, how long till they decide to just roll over russian territories in the east?

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matthey 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 2-Apr-2022 1:53:00
#62 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1476
From: Kansas

kolla Quote:

Now that Chinese leadership have witnessed Russian military capabilities, how long till they decide to just roll over russian territories in the east?


Russia could view an invasion as an "existential threat" and use nuclear capabilities. Russia has many times the number of nuclear warheads of China. I can't see China invading Russia unless there is a coup that attempts to install a pro-Western government. China is benefiting from the Ukraine war by improved economic ties with Russia. I expect any energy diverted from Europe will be supplied to China giving an economic advantage compared to the declining "green energy" economies of the West. China received agricultural products after a poor crop year too. This has improved relations and there really isn't any reason for China to attack Russia now but maybe far in the future as China becomes more powerful and Russia continues to decline. China has the benefit of not having to deal with any economic sanctions as long as the West doesn't add sanctions to China for trading with Russia. Russia still has significant conventional war assets, may be preserving their better equipment and soldiers, and likely has some very dangerous unconventional assets they have not revealed. China's conventional soldiers are untested and their equipment is not as mature in development as most Russian equipment, albeit higher tech and better copied from the West in areas. I have doubts that China could take Taiwan if the Taiwanese resisted as well as the Ukrainians and were able to avoid internal sabotage and betrayal. China could destroy Taiwan but they want the economic assets, especially the most advanced chip fabrication facilities in the world. It's not easy to mass troops without being spotted for an invasion with modern satellites and China may lack the ships for a successful invasion of Taiwan. It would be easier to attempt an invasion with U.S. military assets drawn to Europe and that was what I was worried about when the Ukraine war started and didn't make much sense as to reason and Russian losses. China has many missiles which defend the water close to the mainland and could be used as a semi-surprise attack on U.S. and Japanese Pacific bases. The U.S. has nuclear capabilities making the risk of escalation very dangerous though. U.S general MacArthur was developing a plan to use tactical nuclear weapons on China in the Korean War. The U.S. had been fighting the Chinese on the ground and Russians in the air over North Korea. The Russians didn't have as many nukes, as powerful of nukes or the kind of ICBMs they have today. Nuclear weapons are a strong deterrent which is why such a large Russian invasion of Ukrainian was so surprising where the U.S. was supposed to protect Ukraine according to the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

Joe Biden Quote:

Vladimir Putin doesn’t want me to be President. He doesn’t want me to be our nominee. If you’re wondering why, it’s because I’m the only person in this field who’s ever gone toe-to-toe with him.


I actually believe the invasion would not have happened if Trump had won another term as U.S. President. He is not as predictable as Biden, he is braver, he is not part of the U.N. one world government pushers and he has been swayed by some Russian propaganda and information given to him. He's not a sellout but his relations with some pro-Russian contacts is not what I would consider to be healthy anymore than some of the conflict of interest business dealings by Democrats.

Last edited by matthey on 02-Apr-2022 at 01:56 AM.

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Signman 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 2-Apr-2022 14:26:20
#63 ]
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Joined: 16-Aug-2016
Posts: 98
From: Unknown

@kolla

I know, with such a pathetic military it may take another week or to for Russia to wrap up their objectives. If that Ukranian clown could have negotiated on such minimal terms and tell the Euros and Americans to bugger off, all this could have been avoided.

But know, untold thousands of good patriotic people are now dead and many lives ruined. Trust me, I get the animosity Finns and others have for Russia.

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Karlos 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 2-Apr-2022 14:58:31
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 2486
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@matthey


Quote:
There is progress with Israel and Arab relations. Israel and the UAE just signed a free trade agreement for example.


Wider Arab Israeli relations are tangential to the specific conflict here. This progress looks good on paper and having friendlier neighbours is good for Israel but it don't change the reality for those living in Gaza or elsewhere in the occupied territories. In fact from their perspective this could be seen as abandonment by former supporters. Probably less so in the case of UAE admittedly, but overall but if either of us were Palestinian I'm sure we'd be asking how this addresses any of our grievances.

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matthey 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 2-Apr-2022 18:32:01
#65 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1476
From: Kansas

Signman Quote:

I know, with such a pathetic military it may take another week or to for Russia to wrap up their objectives. If that Ukranian clown could have negotiated on such minimal terms and tell the Euros and Americans to bugger off, all this could have been avoided.


There is good reason why the application of Ukraine to join NATO was delayed so long and a decision was still not imminent. Western nations really didn't want or need to push NATO into Ukraine. Ukraine wanted to join the EU and that was likely to happen regardless but that is economic and not military ties. Ukraine would still be buying natural gas from Russia and fertilizer from Belarus if relations remained friendly. Putin likes leverage and control in negotiating everything though. It is his bullying tactics that push other nations to seek other trading and military partners.

Signman Quote:

But know, untold thousands of good patriotic people are now dead and many lives ruined. Trust me, I get the animosity Finns and others have for Russia.


The Finns are now wanting to join NATO too because of Putin's tactics, which resemble those of his hero Stalin during the Winter War. Zelenskyy has been open to Ukraine remaining neutral outside of NATO and he has no reason to push out the Russian language as it is his first language coming from Eastern Ukraine. He has worked with many Russians in the film industry. He is obviously not anti-Russian but he has become anti-Putin. Putin's demands are an excuse for Russian expansion also out of Stalin's playbook.

Karlos Quote:

Wider Arab Israeli relations are tangential to the specific conflict here. This progress looks good on paper and having friendlier neighbours is good for Israel but it don't change the reality for those living in Gaza or elsewhere in the occupied territories. In fact from their perspective this could be seen as abandonment by former supporters. Probably less so in the case of UAE admittedly, but overall but if either of us were Palestinian I'm sure we'd be asking how this addresses any of our grievances.


Good Arab Israeli relations does more than look good on paper. It helps these countries economically which is key to stability. Many of the Arab nations are ruled by sheikhs which have far from democratic and free governments. They may not have much more support from the oppressed citizens than oppressed Palestinians in Israel but more prosperity helps. Some of that funding is still turned into funding for terrorism, often directed at Israel or the West, as "unofficial" Saudi Arabian funding of the 9/11 attacks on the U.S. demonstrates.

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kolla 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 3-Apr-2022 16:37:00
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2093
From: Trondheim, Norway

Quote:

On on 31-Mar-2022, Comi wrote:
Day or two and Mariupol will be liberated.


Maybe another two weeks? When it’s ready?

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PR 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 3-Apr-2022 19:08:22
#67 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1959
From: Suomi-Finland

@matthey

Been in military and rehersing too what is normal over here with all the Guys I know.

I don't wanna Join Nato so don't generalize. New fighters from USA, guess who is paying them with overload taxes?

Grandfathers did the Great Job (R.I.P.) , Can't imagine how stupid todays people can be.

Yes including me. Used to even travel once to Russia for fun but thats history. Once and last.

No money giving to there anymore.

Really really history. Would be very dangerous to step over here with bad intentions.
Would never happen.

Peace for all would be the Best as the borders are.

Make Amiga Great again if nothing else to do;)



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matthey 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 3-Apr-2022 20:52:54
#68 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1476
From: Kansas

PR Quote:

Been in military and rehersing too what is normal over here with all the Guys I know.

I don't wanna Join Nato so don't generalize. New fighters from USA, guess who is paying them with overload taxes?


Generalizations are important especially as majority opinion in Finland seems to have shifted and that was my point that Putin's actions and bullying comments have pushed nations toward NATO and the West.

Quote:

As many as 53 percent of Finns are now in favor of joining NATO, according to polling conducted from February 23-25 (the Russian invasion began on February 24). That’s a dramatic change: In 2017, the same poll showed only 19 percent of Finns wanting to join NATO, and the figure had remained rather stable over time. Polls in favor of joining NATO were up in Sweden as well, with 41 percent supportive in a poll released February 25, compared to 37 percent in January. Public endorsement for membership in Sweden has hovered around 35 percent since the Russian annexation of Crimea in 2014.

Clearly, Russia’s unprovoked war is pushing the two countries closer to NATO membership than ever before. Moscow´s recent, aggressive threats that joining NATO would bring “military and political consequences” upon Finland and Sweden seem to have had the opposite effect on the public. Rather than hiding in the ditches, Finns and Swedes are turning to the Alliance for security.


https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/will-finland-and-sweden-join-nato-now/

Putin's demands echo of his hero Stalin's demands on Finland.

Quote:

Finland’s historical memories are not only about British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain’s appeasement and the Munich agreement that left Czechoslovakia in the hands of Nazi Germany. Finns haven’t forgotten Soviet demands on their land and harbors in 1939, while secretly preparing for an invasion, which Moscow launched in November that year.


Finland President Sauli Niinisto has been cautious and warned of a major risk of escalation which I view as prudent. Another poll from the following article shows even more Finn support for joining NATO though.

Quote:

For the first time a majority of Finns want to join Nato; a poll by state broadcaster Yle last week found that 62 per cent were in favour and only 16 per cent against. For decades, support ran at about 20 per cent. If Finland’s political leadership backed Nato membership, 74 per cent of Finns said they would be in favour of joining.


Finland warns of ‘major escalation risk’ in Europe amid Nato membership debate
https://www.ft.com/content/e636c759-aad7-4ee1-b245-f3575dd5ce73

This would be a bad time to further push Putin into the corner he is creating for himself.

PR Quote:

Grandfathers did the Great Job (R.I.P.) , Can't imagine how stupid todays people can be.

Yes including me. Used to even travel once to Russia for fun but thats history. Once and last.

No money giving to there anymore.

Really really history. Would be very dangerous to step over here with bad intentions.
Would never happen.


Many Ukrainians didn't think Russia would invade until it actually did. This is human nature and why it is a good idea to be prepared. At least Ukraine is getting good global support unlike Finland received in the Winter War. If Finland had received adequate supplies, they would have suffered fewer casualties, punished the Russians more and not had to give up territory which would have set an example that the world would not tolerate territorial expansion. Certainly, the Russians would suffer if invading Finland today where they are having major logistics problems and getting stuck in the mud in Ukraine.

PR Quote:

Peace for all would be the Best as the borders are.

Make Amiga Great again if nothing else to do;)


Wars are a waste of resources and the path to poverty. This applies to Amiga entities as well as nations.

Edit: The following video is about the quickly changing situation in Finland due to war in Ukraine.
EXPLAINED : Why Finland Could Be The Answer To The Russian War Against Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rrriMwPkKc

Last edited by matthey on 04-Apr-2022 at 06:29 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 03-Apr-2022 at 09:23 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 03-Apr-2022 at 09:21 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 03-Apr-2022 at 08:56 PM.

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PR 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 3-Apr-2022 21:51:33
#69 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1959
From: Suomi-Finland

@matthey

Luckily I'm not the PResident but trained for the countries most Powerful weapon at hand to destroy tanks. More weight on me than weighing myself + on the back.

Serious stuff and sad how innocent people suffer. Helping somehow, people are comming to escape from war.

History is not the best (or english) over here by me as lived ten years in Spain.

Still Patriotic.

------------------------------------

At Amigasites now;) We Hope the end to all the cruelties. Nobody wants WWIII.

Explode a few Ataris at most.

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Comi 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 4-Apr-2022 8:43:02
#70 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jul-2003
Posts: 653
From: Zlatibor, Serbia

@kolla

Quote:
Maybe another two weeks? When it’s ready?


Mariupol is liberated 95%. Small pockets off resistance here and there and ofcourse Azovstal factory. Main goal is to save lives of civilians, captured by nazis, and DNR soldiers ofcourse. They (Azov) are on drugs in most of the cases it is obvious from the look and statement of captured, who saying that thay fireing on the buildings for artirely weapons trying to acuse that to the other side. Also goal is to save the factory, tomorow there will live people and must got something to work.
Figters of DNR saying that Azov nazis are good equiped with thermal cameras, new snipers, new gear for comunication. They digged tunels and they are well fortifayed..for sure, they are in city 8 years, terorasing civilians, now useing them like a human shield.

Last edited by Comi on 04-Apr-2022 at 08:46 AM.

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mr2 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 4-Apr-2022 11:04:14
#71 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Feb-2004
Posts: 691
From: Poland

@Comi

Liberetion of Mariupol and others starts to look jak liberetion of Srebrenica.

After the Russians withdrew from Kiev, bodies were found in mass graves and in the streets. Naked, with tied hands. Hauses are destroyed and robbed. Great "liberetion".

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-04-04-22/index.html

... and for 18+, use Google translate...

https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/relacja-ocalalego-z-masakry-w-buczy-widzialem-martwych-w-kaluzach-krwi/msc58hw

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kolla 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 4-Apr-2022 15:56:18
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2093
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Comi

I have passports with several Ukrainian and Russian visas and stamps - you?

The two main broadcasters and quite a few newspapers here have reporters on the ground in various parts of Ukraine (and one of them is from my own hometown) - are you saying everything they report are lies and theater organized by “nazis” and the US? Do you think your postings here will change anyone’s views?

You do little, but confirm a very sad stereotype of a Serbian nationalist. What eventually will happen is that someone has to pay for all that has been destroyed - if Russia “win”, it will be Russia. If Russia lose, there’s a big chance Russia will still have to pay compensations. Can Russia afford? Not at all. So what’s the point of this? Liberation? There’s almost nothing and noone left to “liberate”. Russia doesn’t need Marupol, nor Melitopol, they are just on the road to Simferopol and very well be flattened as far as Putin is concerned, he just want to say he has full control over the shorees of Asov sea (or “nazi bay” as you may call it).

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Rob 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 4-Apr-2022 16:01:23
#73 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6169
From: S.Wales

@Comi

Funny how denazifcation of Ukraine involves sending in Wagner Group mercs.

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bison 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 6-Apr-2022 2:40:09
#74 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2084
From: N-Space

@Comi

This is what Mariupol used to look like.



This is what "liberated" Mariupol looks like.

Last edited by bison on 14-Apr-2022 at 05:39 PM.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 6-Apr-2022 2:58:50
#75 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 844
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

@bison

Quote:

Comi wrote:

Mariupol is liberated 95%.


You can definitely see that stubborn 5% standing!

Quote:

bison wrote:

This is what "liberated" Mariupol looks like.

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Troels 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 6-Apr-2022 15:52:25
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2004
From: Unknown

@Comi
It is completely irrelevant wether azov brigade is nazis or not Russia has nothing to do in Ukraine not now and not before when they stirred up problems and in Donbas region.

Russia (and Serbia!) has plenty of Nazis themselves, should they be invaded?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 6-Apr-2022 17:09:21
#77 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12149
From: Norway

@Troels


Russian nationalists shout as they attend a "Russian March" demonstration on National Unity Day in Moscow November 4, 2012.

https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/rise-of-russias-far-right-idJPRTR3A11Q

Authorities worry that rising ethnic tensions could pose a threat to public order
November 4, 2013 9:30AM ET

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/11/4/russian-nationalunitydaymarkedbyantiimmigrantrallies.html

Levada Poll: 1/2 of Russians Support Idea of ‘Russia for Russians,’ About 1/5 Would Not Let in Chinese, Ukrainians
September 23, 2020

https://www.russiamatters.org/blog/levada-poll-12-russians-support-idea-russia-russians-about-15-would-not-let-chinese-ukrainians

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Apr-2022 at 05:20 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Apr-2022 at 05:17 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 6-Apr-2022 17:22:42
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12149
From: Norway

@Troels

Absolutely Putin is a hypocrite and butcher, no respect for human life, cold as grave stone.

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Troels 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 6-Apr-2022 18:39:58
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2004
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga
Yes putin is a war criminal, no doubt about it.

We met and spend time with a family (wife + daughters) from Mariupol last week and to use the word "liberate" about the russian aggressions there or in rest of Ukraine is straight crazy.

Not surprised as many serbians still see their nation as victim for Nato/USA aggression, totally forgetting or even denying Srebrenica etc.

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fishy_fis 
Re: Retro-computing museum destroyed in Ukraine
Posted on 6-Apr-2022 19:05:35
#80 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2031
From: Australia

@Karlos

Quote:
What about the desperate families escaping conflict and oppression in Syria? Yemen? Palestine? Libya? Unfortunately out government, and many others in the west appear to have a Dulux chart of skin tone to check against when deciding whether or not someone is worthy of this humanity.


Given that people tend to assume others have similar thought processes to themselves that's a little disturbing.
Yes, people see skin color. Anyone who claims otherwise is lying and trying to (ironically) appear not racist. Simple fact of the matter is that people notice physical traits. Very few judge base on these though.

The reasons other atrocities dont get the airplay/attention is simply one of coverage and personal consequence. Doesnt make it suck any less, and its "wrong", but inferring its a skin color issue is, frankly, moronic, and makes a person question what goes on in your head.
Little surprised to be honest. You're normally pretty reasonable.

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