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      /  RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
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xe54 
RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 2-Jul-2022 21:14:01
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 112
From: Unknown

Could this make a good home for the AMIGA?

Open source and fully supported.

RISC V Laptop Announcement

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 2-Jul-2022 21:38:35
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12281
From: Norway

@xe54

Nope, just as bad as AMD or INTEL CPU.

This is a little-endian CPU, so not good for our beloved software.
But I guess you can run AROS on like can on any PC, you just need the drivers for it.

I use Windows PC for modern stuff, and I use Amiga for amiga stuff, that’s how I like to do it. and I believe by time, we can solve many of problems, and I think thats most fun.

ARM I guess is option due to being bi- endian, but its lot of work, and if run Big endian mode on ARM, we need a PowerPC to ARM JIT, and we need 680x0 to ARM JIT (that one exists), and we need ARM CPU / and motherboard that is design like normal PC with PCIe slots and on.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Jul-2022 at 09:56 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Jul-2022 at 09:53 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Jul-2022 at 09:39 PM.

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Karlos 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 2-Jul-2022 22:00:29
#3 ]
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Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 2794
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@xe54

It's nice to see RISC V gaining ground. As for being an Amiga, well, AROS probably, but traditional AmigaOS is too coupled to the 32-bit / big endian for now.

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billt 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 3-Jul-2022 16:37:19
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3204
From: Maryland, USA

@xe54

Does anything Amiga run on RiscV? How can that be a good home for it? (AROS already runs on better x64 laptops)

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xe54 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 3-Jul-2022 21:55:17
#5 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 112
From: Unknown

@Karlos

AROS would be lovely!

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xe54 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 3-Jul-2022 22:08:33
#6 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 112
From: Unknown

@billt

It is open source and there are many reference designs - anybody can make their own designs without having to worry about licensing. Lot's of money is invested in RISC V so it is not going anywhere soon.

Just another option other than ARM and X64 but one that is new enough that the right software could be very useful to people but also one that is simple enough - yet fast enough - to be used as the basis for both native and emulated Amiga software.

If you want a chipset that is here for the future yet is unencumbered with license issues and part shortages due to the unique way that the chip is designed.

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xe54 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 3-Jul-2022 22:16:23
#7 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 112
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Well if you feel that strongly, you could couple the RISCV with an FPGA and solve both your issues in one - you will still be able to run all your old software and offer a new future proof platform for everything else.

ARM is another option as you say it but does not have the flexible license and simple to manufacture design that RISCV does.

It depends how you want to see AMIGA in the future!

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ferrels 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 4-Jul-2022 0:48:52
#8 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 898
From: Arizona

@xe54

Quote:
you could couple the RISCV with an FPGA and solve both your issues in one


With that comment you've crossed the line into the territory of the ridiculous.
An FPGA paired to a RISCV CPU to run Amiga apps doesn't solve any issues whatsoever and there's nothing simple, cheap nor flexible about RISCV.

Do you have any idea what it would cost to even conduct a production run of these CPUs to create some engineering samples? Well, I do, and the cost is in the millions of dollars. You can't even buy these CPUs at present because they only exist on paper!

And yes, RISCV won an award in 2017 but that was merely for the instruction set! And that was 5 years ago. That's an eternity in the world of CPU design.

"2017: The Linley Group's Analyst's Choice Award for Best Technology (for the instruction set)" https://linleygroup.com/press_detail.php?The-Linley-Group-Announces-Winners-of-Annual-Analysts-Choice-Awards-85

I wish I had a dollar for every time some clown showed up on this forum suggesting that an obscure, nearly unsupported architecture/CPU should be used to further the Amiga. I'd be rich.

Just because something is different or not mainstream doesn't mean it's suitable for much of anything. If that line of reasoning held true, we'd still have PPC systems going strong....and we don't.

You need to stick to whatever profession is paying your bills and stay out of the realm of the computer sciences.

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ferrels 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 4-Jul-2022 1:30:10
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 898
From: Arizona

@Karlos

Quote:
It's nice to see RISC V gaining ground.


What ground are you talking about? This architecture has been sitting at the same spot for the past 5 years, which is on some clown's desk on a sheet of paper. Do you realize that this architecture only exists on paper and that it will cost millions in order to produce just the engineering samples needed to design and test a full system? RISC-V is going nowhere and that's where it needs to stay.

As for the announcement of a RISC-V laptop, you obviously didn't even follow the links. The laptop doesn't exist and they want cryptocurrency to secure a PRE-ORDER! Oh, and the first 100 folks who are dumb enough to send cryptocurrency get a free NFT! This has scam written all over it.

So follow this link and get your free NFT while you still can! LOL! https://xcalibyte.com.cn/en/roma-preorder/

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agami 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 4-Jul-2022 2:11:19
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1034
From: Melbourne, Australia

@ferrels

Quote:
this architecture only exists on paper

Here's an interesting piece of paper
https://core-electronics.com.au/hifive1-rev-b-47614.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw_ISWBhBkEiwAdqxb9gs6hd8TZwo-14IXdIWaoZGHBRWUvedCRBrDB0_eP_Cj1_9qvxrHphoCTl4QAvD_BwE

Last edited by agami on 04-Jul-2022 at 02:11 AM.

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ferrels 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 4-Jul-2022 3:33:49
#11 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 898
From: Arizona

@agami

OMG, this is more of the same tripe from SiFive. They've been conducting this smoke and mirrors campaign for the RISC-V/E31 core over a year now. Again, the RISC-V E31 core (which this board supposedly supports) only exists on paper in spite of the advertisement that you linked to. This board does NOT have a RISC-V CPU. It merely supports a RISC-V core which isn't available.

If you'd like to know more about this PAPER tiger, here's the spec sheet: https://starfivetech.com/uploads/fe310-g002-datasheet-v1p2.pdf


Go ahead and place and order for this board and lose your money. There's a sucker born every minute......Wait, you saw an advert on the internet so it must be true! LOL!

Last edited by ferrels on 04-Jul-2022 at 03:42 AM.

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xe54 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 4-Jul-2022 13:11:44
#12 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 112
From: Unknown

@ferrels

Quote:
You need to stick to whatever profession is paying your bills and stay out of the realm of the computer sciences.


Classic AMIGA comment! Gotta love posting here.

Quote:
I wish I had a dollar for every time some clown showed up on this forum suggesting that an obscure, nearly unsupported architecture/CPU should be used to further the Amiga. I'd be rich.


You'd have about $23

Quote:
You can't even buy these CPUs at present because they only exist on paper!


I literally posted a link to a laptop currently being beta tested.

Quote:
obscure, nearly unsupported architecture/CPU


C'mon now!

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xe54 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 4-Jul-2022 13:17:00
#13 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 112
From: Unknown

@ferrels

You may be right in that it does turn out to be a scam! Wouldn't be the first time!

All this thread was to to announce that a new architecture for a laptop was soon to be available.

Will it benefit AMIGA?
No. It is doubtful that any announcement will benefit AMIGA in 2022.

I don't want to get into flamewars. I have been hoping for RISC-V to succeed for a long time too.

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xe54 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 4-Jul-2022 14:23:58
#14 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 112
From: Unknown

@ferrels

Quote:
With that comment you've crossed the line into the territory of the ridiculous. An FPGA paired to a RISCV CPU to run Amiga apps doesn't solve any issues whatsoever and there's nothing simple, cheap nor flexible about RISCV.


Intel's plan to license x86 cores for chips with Arm, RISC-V and more inside

Quote:
"We have what we call a multi ISA strategy. That's the first time in Intel's history we'll license x86 soft cores and hard cores to customers who would like to develop chips," Bob Brennan, vice president of customer solutions engineering at Intel's Foundry Services, told The Register. A soft core being a CPU core that can be implemented in programmable logic, such as an FPGA, or in a specific application chip you're designing, whereas a hard core is a black-box design placed within a custom chip. Simply put, a soft core is useful for prototyping and special circumstances, and a hard core is most useful when you want to make a production-grade part.

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ferrels 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 4-Jul-2022 15:51:23
#15 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 898
From: Arizona

@xe54

Quote:
I have been hoping for RISC-V to succeed for a long time too.


RISC died off a long time ago for very good reasons. Number one, because it's an inferior technology compared to CISC. During the 1990's, CISC CPUs completely steamrolled RISC CPUs when comparing performance. Number two, current RISC designs are still inferior to anything currently on the market and that isn't likely to change being that chip designers from Intel, ARM, and AMD aren't going to jump ship and take corporate IP with them to help a company whose CPU designs only exist on paper.

Hoping that RISC processors will make a comeback in 2022 is just as ludicrous as believing that the MOS 6502 will make a comeback in 2023. Your wait is going to be a very long one...AKA unending.

As for the articles you link in this thread, you obviously have a reading comprehension problem because they are simply marketing-speak articles about FPGAs claiming RISC compatibility. Of course such marketing claims will be made because they want to sell as many FPGA boards a possible because profit! Hence all the references to "soft cores". I have a newsflash for you, most FPGAs will support nearly any CPU core that can be installed on them provided there's enough space, but the core has to actually be developed, debugged and tested. And as of yet, the RISC-V/E31 core only exists on paper.

Even Gunnar's 68080 has a better chance of becoming an ASIC than a RISC-V design because Gunnar's soft core actually exists and has been thoroughly debugged and tested. He also has a sizeable installed user base as well. RISC-V has none of that. With the costs involved to take a soft-core CPU to real silicon, it's highly unlikely that the 68080 will ever become an ASIC so it's even more unlikely that RISC-V will ever become an ASIC.

Quote:
I literally posted a link to a laptop currently being beta tested.


And NO, they are NOT beta-testing a RISC-V laptop because said laptop doesn't exist.

Quote:
You'd have about $23


And your math skills are as bad as your reading comprehension. Whether it's RISC-V, some oddball PPC variant, a PPC softcore, ARM variant, etc.....there is some misinformed mental midget showing up at this forum proposing that Amigans should adopt some inferior architecture as the way forward for their beloved OS. It's no wonder that even NG Amigas such as the X1000/X5000 are roughly 20 years behind mainstream PCs in performance the way Amigans have clung onto PPC with a death-grip.

Last edited by ferrels on 04-Jul-2022 at 04:40 PM.
Last edited by ferrels on 04-Jul-2022 at 04:34 PM.
Last edited by ferrels on 04-Jul-2022 at 04:24 PM.
Last edited by ferrels on 04-Jul-2022 at 04:13 PM.
Last edited by ferrels on 04-Jul-2022 at 04:10 PM.

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billt 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 4-Jul-2022 16:21:17
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3204
From: Maryland, USA

The SOM upgrades part is interesting. Could a PPC SOM be made to fit? Or an FPGA SOM for an Apollo core...

Last edited by billt on 04-Jul-2022 at 04:32 PM.

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billt 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 4-Jul-2022 16:24:21
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3204
From: Maryland, USA

Quote:
It is open source and there are many reference designs - anybody can make their own designs without having to worry about licensing. Lot's of money is invested in RISC V so it is not going anywhere soon.


That doesn't let me use anything Amiga on it today. I suppose there is a decent chance someone will put Aros on it, but os3.x, os4.x, Mos aren't useful there unless maybe you qemy a sam460 or peg2. But you can do that on existing x86 laptops today, aros runs on those today. When this RiscV laptop is available, how is that better than x86 laptop doing the same?

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billt 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 4-Jul-2022 16:31:34
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3204
From: Maryland, USA

@xe54

Quote:
If you want a chipset that is here for the future yet is unencumbered with license issues and part shortages due to the unique way that the chip is designed.


Huh? What about the way RiscV is designed makes it immune to the relative scarcity of silicon wafer blanks to build on, and the relative low time availability in fabs to build "this" instead of "those"? That part of your post doesn't make sense to me, it sounds like wishful thinking...

Last edited by billt on 04-Jul-2022 at 04:33 PM.

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Bosanac 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 4-Jul-2022 17:53:45
#19 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-May-2022
Posts: 127
From: Unknown

@ferrels

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=RISC-V-Dev-Laptop

More ARM CPUs are sold than x64. RISC is certainly not dead.

RISCV is useless for Amiga’s granted, but your last post is full of so many inaccuracies. Lol

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xe54 
Re: RISC V Laptop announced... Could this be the ultimate AMIGA hardware?
Posted on 4-Jul-2022 17:57:31
#20 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 112
From: Unknown

@billt

Fair point, and in some respects this is wishful thinking.

RISC-V is great for custom chips, I have a Titan M2 in my Pixel phone used as a custom cryptography processor. The company that manufactures it does not have a unique license on it and Alphabet can take the design and get any other manufacturer to fabricate it (which they have done). They do not have to depend on Intel or AMD or ARM or have to worry about licensing chip technology so in theory is more decentralised.

The reason that the large tech companies are investing in their development is that unlike the other chips, this one has a very broad license so that it can form the basis of other chips. It uses a open instruction set which is no good for raw speed compared to other more common CPUs, but we are at the age in tech where it is fast enough to do everything the AMIGA ever could do and more.

As more companies develop RISC-V chips the price decreases and the availability goes up.

I started this thread with a question, I never made any claims!

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