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Chain-Q
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 2-Sep-2022 10:19:46
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Cult Member  |
Joined: 31-Jan-2005 Posts: 824
From: Budapest, Hungary | | |
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| @Zylesea
I don't think such posts are helpful to advocate for MorphOS, or convince anyone to its advantages. Yes, I also used to do such posts in the past, I try not to do so any more.
I'm fully involved in MorphOS , but also I accept that there might be several reasons why one might like to have OS4 instead, apart from the obvious emotional attachment to the Five Letter Magical Name. One quite trivial issue is lack of support of MorphOS for their hardware/platform (original A1, X1000, WinUAE, newer graphics cards in other machines, to name a few), that's not going to get solved in the very near future. MorphOS also doesn't offer OS4 software compatibility, and at this point the software base for these systems diverged quite far from each other, thanks to the different default UI kits and related policies. Also, in many cases no replacement software exists for one or another system. I also have this as feedback from people who actually and actively tried to migrate from OS4 to MorphOS. They lack some software to fully do the migration. And no doubt it would be the same, when someone for whatever reason would want to move from MorphOS to OS4. (Well, Wayfarer is one very trivial example in this case.)
So neither of these systems are trivial drop-in replacements of each other at this point. This might have been true 15 years ago when 95% of the software stack was identical and 68k Amiga based, but not any more. _________________ MorphOS, classic Amiga, demoscene, and stuff "When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!" "Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle) |
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Zylesea
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 2-Sep-2022 17:24:40
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 16-Mar-2004 Posts: 2264
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG | | |
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| @Chain-Q
I agree, but I think we are long post flame war red/blue this and that time. It is really only friendly invitation. An invitation to move something forward. _________________ My programs: via.bckrs.de MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001) |
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Hans
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 2-Sep-2022 23:55:58
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 27-Dec-2003 Posts: 5120
From: New Zealand | | |
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| @Zylesea
Quote:
I think OS4 lags too far behind in many aspects. Better focus on *one* system instead of doing work twice and waste development resources. Hence, drop OS4, join MorphOS. |
And MorphOS "lags too far behind" in other aspects.
While you may have intended this as a friendly invitation, it doesn't come across that way.
Comparing the two OSes objectively, each has a different set of strengths and flaws, and the systems are diverging in areas such as APIs.
Hans
Last edited by Hans on 03-Sep-2022 at 12:05 AM.
_________________ Join the Kea Campus - upgrade your skills; support my work; enjoy the Amiga corner. https://keasigmadelta.com/ - see more of my work |
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Hans
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 3-Sep-2022 0:02:41
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 27-Dec-2003 Posts: 5120
From: New Zealand | | |
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| @jacadcaps
Quote:
jacadcaps wrote: @sananaman
You need an SDK with modern C++ support (covering most of Standard Library, and covering it in a way that things are actually compliant with the C++ standards). To get there, we've had to update the MorphOS' exec.library.
I've no reason to believe the same can be achieved on OS4 without modifying exec / kernel components, at least if you want decent performance.
All of the other dependencies are even already there (unchanged from Odyssey) or are relatively easy to port (compiles with minimal patches). |
Isn't Wayfarer's GUI done using Objective-C? I think Sananaman is hoping for an AmigaOS 4 port of Wayfarer itself, rather than just WebKit. IIRC, OS4's GCC can compile Objective-C (I tried it once), but the Objective-C standard libraries are missing (including the MorphOS specific ones).
Hans
_________________ Join the Kea Campus - upgrade your skills; support my work; enjoy the Amiga corner. https://keasigmadelta.com/ - see more of my work |
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jacadcaps
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 3-Sep-2022 19:27:49
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Regular Member  |
Joined: 20-Nov-2007 Posts: 205
From: Canada | | |
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| @Hans
Quote:
And MorphOS "lags too far behind" in other aspects. |
Sure, just not in the areas needed to be able to run the most important app these days.
Quote:
Isn't Wayfarer's GUI done using Objective-C |
Sure, but building a MUI area subclass without the use of Objective-C is a trivial task for anyone with a clue. Yes, that'd mean writing a separate UI for OS4, but hey... might as well go with Reaction then. |
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amigakit
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 3-Sep-2022 21:06:31
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Amiga Kit  |
Joined: 28-Jun-2004 Posts: 2659
From: www.amigakit.com | | |
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| The MorphOS vs. OS4 days are long gone. In recent years Frank Mariak, Mark Olsen and other MorphOS devs have stepped in and provided invaluable Uboot and driver support for A-EON machines benefiting OS4. This help was much appreciated and not forgotten. We will always be open to working across the Amiga family for the benefit of this community.
_________________ Amiga Kit Amiga Store Links: www.amigakit.com | New Products | A600GS |
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Hans
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 4-Sep-2022 1:50:44
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 27-Dec-2003 Posts: 5120
From: New Zealand | | |
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| @jacadcaps
Quote:
Sure, just not in the areas needed to be able to run the most important app these days. |
Obviously, or this thread wouldn't exist. 
AmigaOS 4 is missing a developer like you, who is able and willing to do the work to make it happen. I'd give it a shot if I weren't so busy on other projects already. I did have a quick go at building WebKit last year, but didn't have the time to get it working.
Quote:
Sure, but building a MUI area subclass without the use of Objective-C is a trivial task for anyone with a clue. |
Oh, so Objective-C is only used for an area sub-class?
Quote:
Yes, that'd mean writing a separate UI for OS4, but hey... might as well go with Reaction then. |
Nah, better stick with MUI; it's got more classes and capabilities.
I'm not saying Reaction couldn't be used, but you'd be creating extra work for yourself in adding & extending its classes.
Hans
_________________ Join the Kea Campus - upgrade your skills; support my work; enjoy the Amiga corner. https://keasigmadelta.com/ - see more of my work |
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t0lkien
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 4-Sep-2022 9:01:55
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Regular Member  |
Joined: 25-Sep-2004 Posts: 207
From: SPAIN | | |
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| @amigakit
That sounds really cool. Is there any project from you to support MorphOS in the near future? |
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jacadcaps
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 5-Sep-2022 12:38:49
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Regular Member  |
Joined: 20-Nov-2007 Posts: 205
From: Canada | | |
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| @Hans
Quote:
Oh, so Objective-C is only used for an area sub-class? |
Objective-C is used for all of the interfaces between WebKit and Wayfarer (and Iris, for that matter). That includes an area subclass, all of the settings, download handlers, errors, certificate info, etc. Unlike with Odyssey which had MUI classes deep inside WebKitLegacy source code, my port has full isolation between WebKit and a browser app. This makes it easy to build non-browser projects that happen to need Web rendering capabilities (like the mentioned email client). Again, you don't need all this. |
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Bosanac
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 5-Sep-2022 15:20:10
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Regular Member  |
Joined: 10-May-2022 Posts: 257
From: Unknown | | |
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| @amigakit
Why spend your time and money on writing a clone of OS4 from scratch when it would be quicker and cheaper to pay the MorphOS devs to add any functionality that you feel is missing from OS4 (Maybe even paying for OS4Emu to be brought up to date to run OS4 binaries on MOS) and then just distributing MorphOS with your hardware that’s been skinned to look like OS4?
There must be a reason I’m not seeing, I just wonder what it is. |
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t0lkien
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 17-Sep-2022 23:24:02
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Regular Member  |
Joined: 25-Sep-2004 Posts: 207
From: SPAIN | | |
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| Version 4.1 Rebased to WebKitGTK 2.36.7 Updated EasyList AdBlocker database Updated cURL and other libs
Jacadcaps in morphzone: "Wayfarer 4.1 is now available for download. I've rebased to WebKitGTK 2.36.7. Since 2.36.8 was released only yesterday, you can expect 4.2 within a couple of days. Still, don't hold updating - 4.1 should fix several crashes inside base WebKit that got fixed in the WebKitGTK branch." Last edited by t0lkien on 17-Sep-2022 at 11:25 PM.
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Mobileconnect
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 18-Sep-2022 3:42:36
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Cult Member  |
Joined: 13-Jun-2003 Posts: 504
From: Unknown | | |
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| I am the guy who donated to jacadaps to make his webkit patches open source
if someone out there wants to be paid to wrap them in a MUI class (or any BOOPSI class for that matter) for OS4 please get in touch privately. _________________
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 18-Sep-2022 9:02:33
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12987
From: Norway | | |
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 18-Sep-2022 9:30:46
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12987
From: Norway | | |
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Zylesea
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 18-Sep-2022 13:13:10
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 16-Mar-2004 Posts: 2264
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG | | |
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| @t0lkien
As usual the update went smooth and fast - 4.1 just works.
_________________ My programs: via.bckrs.de MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001) |
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Hypex
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 18-Sep-2022 14:37:51
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11351
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @Bosanac
OS4Emu actually works. I'm not aware of the opposite for OS4. I actually did write a basic MOS runner for OS4, that I got working, but it might be next to useless as it only runs the old ELF commands. All modern applications use some newer ELF format. So MOS as that up it's sleeve still, it can run some OS4 applications. But MOS applications can't be ran on OS4. |
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retro
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 22-Sep-2022 18:26:46
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Super Member  |
Joined: 16-Dec-2003 Posts: 1050
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Hypex
Speaking of morphos.do Anyone know more about when wee will see more about ether smp or kernel/Memory protection or the native x64 version |
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Hans
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 23-Sep-2022 6:24:38
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 27-Dec-2003 Posts: 5120
From: New Zealand | | |
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| @NutsAboutAmiga
Quote:
I believe has repeated many time, that AmigaOS4.1 SDK needs to support Thread Local Storage, TLS, until that happens, there is no point nagging about it. |
There are patches in adtools for TLS, so it should be working. I've never tested it, though. Jacadcaps said you need kernel support for TLS if for decent performance, but basic TLS via GCC should be enough to at least get to work on porting.
Hans
_________________ Join the Kea Campus - upgrade your skills; support my work; enjoy the Amiga corner. https://keasigmadelta.com/ - see more of my work |
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t0lkien
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 23-Sep-2022 13:13:53
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Regular Member  |
Joined: 25-Sep-2004 Posts: 207
From: SPAIN | | |
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| Wayfarer 4.2 with WebKit codebase updated to WebKitGTK 2.36.8 is out now! |
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DiscreetFX
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Re: The Wayfarer browser going 4.0 Posted on 23-Sep-2022 14:05:12
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 12-Feb-2003 Posts: 2549
From: Chicago, IL | | |
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| @t0lkien
Awesome news, jacadcaps is the best. _________________ Sent from my Quantum Computer. |
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