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/  Forum Index
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      /  An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
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cdimauro 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 26-Aug-2022 5:09:13
#121 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3084
From: Germany

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
@cdimauro

There’s also Aranym.

I see. And it's much advanced. Could be a good starting point (besides I like more the VAMOS approach, since I'm a Pythonist ).


@michalsc

Quote:

michalsc wrote:

right now my local Emu68 is not bootable as it is in middle of transition to hypervisor mode :)

I forgot to ask about this. Any (cool) details that you could share? It looks like KVM-like.

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kolla 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 26-Aug-2022 7:08:13
#122 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2315
From: Trondheim, Norway

@cdimauro

Quote:
I'm a Pythonist


My condolences, I wish you a quick recovery.

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Karlos 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 26-Aug-2022 8:26:09
#123 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3144
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@kolla

I'm a Monty Pythonist...

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kolla 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 26-Aug-2022 9:30:10
#124 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2315
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Karlos

Well, that’s chronic :)

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Hypex 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 26-Aug-2022 14:26:39
#125 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10830
From: Greensborough, Australia

@pixie

Emu68K would be interesting. Of course at that point it's a bit of a cheat. Since kit goes beyond the original hardware but I can see the point.

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Hypex 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 26-Aug-2022 14:42:18
#126 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10830
From: Greensborough, Australia

@matthey

Quote:
The ADoom method for choosing the best C2P routine likely worked well when ADoom was last updated. Now we have CPUs which detect as a real 68k CPU but are many times faster and chipsets that detect as real Amiga chipsets but have many times the bandwidth of AGA. Many of the new Amiga clones and emulators have RTG chunky modes so C2P can be avoided altogether though.


Yes I suppose ADoom was made for the real thing. I see in emulation it can run real fast. Other hardware like FPGA or Vampire typically has features like RTG so it doesn't matter so much any more on those systems.

Quote:
Scout is very intuitive with its GUI.


Yes I was a big fan from years back.

Quote:
The RTG graphics card memory is usually mapped to a certain memory region addressable by the CPU. We just need to do the bustest on the memory in that region. It shouldn't matter what is in the memory when there are no RTG screens active. Locks are software constructs for arbitration of system friendly resources. A single user doesn't need to arbitrate for resource access. Even with RTG screens active, writing to the graphics memory may corrupt a bitmap but RTG structures are in CPU memory so a system crash is unlikely. The worst case would be to miss part of the graphics card memory region which could cause a crash but that is unlikely using a bitmap pointer and considering the size of the memory regions. You could check MMU mappings to see the range of the region the bitmap falls in to make sure bustest does no accesses outside this region but that would be more difficult to explain how to do and unnecessary.


I'll see what Scout can find then.

...

Quote:
The following video is a AMD K6-III@600MHz with a Doom timedemo of 135 fps.

Doom timedemo AMD K6-III+ 600 MHz


Haha! That was insane. Not even the sound was turned off.

Last edited by Hypex on 26-Aug-2022 at 02:56 PM.
Last edited by Hypex on 26-Aug-2022 at 02:55 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 26-Aug-2022 15:00:14
#127 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10830
From: Greensborough, Australia

@pixie

Quote:
It is s on AGA MULTISCAN, I think RTG values would put it to shame [on the same demo scene, with 320x256 it goes about 720fps)... But since I was aiming was to see just what would be the theoretical chipset bottleneck, a bit like they nowadays do regarding gpus and games, that was the test I've done.


I also did some preliminary tests using DblPAL amd DblNTSC. But decided not to include them as it would complicate it further and take even more time. But what I did find was that these double modes were actually slower in testing than standard low res so don't look they would have helped.

Quote:
Doom benchmark table


There's even an Amiga A1200 down the bottom. But it beat a Pentium-60! Interesting to see that a high 80486 clocked at 100Mhz or Pentium over 75Mhz is needed to meet the 35 FPS Doom standard.

Last edited by Hypex on 26-Aug-2022 at 03:33 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 26-Aug-2022 15:21:12
#128 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10830
From: Greensborough, Australia

@SHADES

Quote:
What impressed the socks off me was this Doom port was also doing this at full screen size. Yeah, it's impressive but using OCS in full screen and very playable?? wow


It looks impressive for an A500 yes.

But calling it a Doom port is rather like calling a cover version a remix. Since it's inspired by Doom. But not an actual port.

The average FPS on screens tends to be 4-7. Which sounds slow. But the game looks faster on screen.

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cdimauro 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 28-Aug-2022 7:28:58
#129 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3084
From: Germany

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
I'm a Pythonist


My condolences, I wish you a quick recovery.

I could recover only when I get a computer language which is as easy & productive as Python.

Last fresh example: Capstone disassembly framework (which includes M68K)


@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote:
@pixie

Emu68K would be interesting. Of course at that point it's a bit of a cheat. Since kit goes beyond the original hardware but I can see the point.

It's not cheat, rather the opposite since you can test the same system but with the difference represented by the CPU.

It would be interesting to also see a native run of a Doom port on PiStorm (possibly as close as the original DOS one, like Chocolate Doom for Windows). So, it would be possible to check the "emulation tax" of this system (on Windows, as I've reported, Doom under emulation is faster than the native application ).

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ppcamiga1 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 28-Aug-2022 15:32:00
#130 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 450
From: Unknown

Back in time I have Amiga with ECS chipset.
It was good. It was better than pc that others use.
It has better and faster graphics than pc.
Games were better on Amiga.
Apps were better on Amiga.
I don't feel I was missing something.
I was happy with my Amiga.

Everything gone wrong in 1992.
developers on pc start using use chunky pixel.
Games start to be better on pc.
Apps start to be better on pc.
All this because AGA has not chunky pixels.

Nothing will help AGA.
AGA was obsolete even in 1992.
AGA should be just replaced.

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 28-Aug-2022 at 03:32 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 28-Aug-2022 18:36:50
#131 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12344
From: Norway

@ppcamiga1

For classic amiga, it looks like OCS/ECS/AGA has 9 life’s, a lot of new games coming out on 68K, comes out because of game engines, like Scorpion engine, Redpil and others, as they are built around OCS/ECS/AGA, we just keep seeing mostly AGA stuff, for classic Amiga.
Blitz Basic continues to be popular, most of games made in Blitz is AGA.

So, platformer games, I don’t think it’s going to happen.
Typical True color games is RTS, 1P, and other Strategy games, application and programs.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 28-Aug-2022 at 06:49 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 28-Aug-2022 at 06:37 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 28-Aug-2022 19:13:04
#132 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3084
From: Germany

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
Back in time I have Amiga with ECS chipset.
It was good. It was better than pc that others use.
It has better and faster graphics than pc.
Games were better on Amiga.
Apps were better on Amiga.
I don't feel I was missing something.
I was happy with my Amiga.

Everything gone wrong in 1992.
developers on pc start using use chunky pixel.
Games start to be better on pc.
Apps start to be better on pc.
All this because AGA has not chunky pixels.

Nothing will help AGA.
AGA was obsolete even in 1992.
AGA should be just replaced.




@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@ppcamiga1

For classic amiga, it looks like OCS/ECS/AGA has 9 life’s, a lot of new games coming out on 68K, comes out because of game engines, like Scorpion engine, Redpil and others, as they are built around OCS/ECS/AGA, we just keep seeing mostly AGA stuff, for classic Amiga.
Blitz Basic continues to be popular, most of games made in Blitz is AGA.

So, platformer games, I don’t think it’s going to happen.
Typical True color games is RTS, 1P, and other Strategy games, application and programs.

Same as on the other thread: the reject of Mother Nature already had too much attention.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 29-Aug-2022 17:44:58
#133 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 450
From: Unknown

All this new OCS/ECS/AGA 68k games are worth nothing.
None of them looks like games from Amiga golden era.
OCS/ECS games where superb.


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SHADES 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 30-Aug-2022 6:58:23
#134 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 777
From: Melbourne

@Hypex

Quote:
But calling it a Doom port is rather like calling a cover version a remix. Since it's inspired by Doom. But not an actual port. The average FPS on screens tends to be 4-7. Which sounds slow. But the game looks faster on screen.


Sure. A remake.
That was the intent though, to bring the "Doom" game that everyone at the time, raved about to AMIGA on hardware most of us had at the time. The A500.

Yeah, it seems a lot faster than 5-7 frames. You can just download it and try it out regardless. Seems to have an active community that's making maps and added monsters/levels etc to it.

There's even an Atari ST version also made that runs in serial multi-player he did for a demo party.
Not sure if there's an AMIGA version of that but the AMIGA one runs faster/smoother with better graphics so......

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Karlos 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 30-Aug-2022 10:59:23
#135 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3144
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

Regarding Dread, I think the reason the game feels faster is because of things like the weapon animations which are in fact faster. KK's video series on the development of it is really interesting.

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kolla 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 30-Aug-2022 13:32:21
#136 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2315
From: Trondheim, Norway

Dread runs super smooth on Minimig :)

(49MHz 68SEC000 and chipram access 3x speed of original ECS, says Sysinfo)

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Karlos 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 30-Aug-2022 13:56:02
#137 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3144
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@kolla

I don't doubt it! I'd love to see how it runs on a base A1200 with fast ram.

Last edited by Karlos on 30-Aug-2022 at 01:57 PM.

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matthey 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 30-Aug-2022 18:04:16
#138 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1684
From: Kansas

Karlos Quote:

I don't doubt it! I'd love to see how it runs on a base A1200 with fast ram.


Amiga Dread Demo Ep 09 1st Run on Amiga 1200 + 8MB fastram
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1_7MQa3Nhg

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Karlos 
Re: An experimental Doom speed test and feasibility study based on a virtual packed-planar mode
Posted on 30-Aug-2022 19:21:34
#139 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3144
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@matthey

Smooth as a freshly buttered bannister.

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