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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Sam460le picture?
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PixelHi 
Sam460le picture?
Posted on 2-Oct-2022 10:56:05
#1 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2022
Posts: 34
From: Unknown

It looks like there is some movement as far as Sam460le, I think pre-production version is ready: https://shop.acube-systems.biz/sam-motherboards/124-sam460.html

I'm wondering what will be the color of the actual mono released.

Maybe someone can get more info?

Last edited by PixelHi on 02-Oct-2022 at 10:58 AM.
Last edited by PixelHi on 02-Oct-2022 at 10:57 AM.

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BigD 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 3-Oct-2022 10:58:10
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6622
From: UK

@PixelHi

It look a bit dull compared to the red mobos used for the old 1.0Ghz CR models. Oh well, it's a bit faster for a few hundred more Euros and seems to actually exist unlike the A1222 Plus Early Adopter boards! Mini win I guess.

_________________
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eliyahu 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 3-Oct-2022 11:35:22
#3 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1899
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@PixelHi

I believe the actual PCB is that green color, although I'm sure everything will be confirmed at Amiga37. I was staggered to see that, including VAT, the board is nearly 1000 EUR, though. Whoa! Inflation really hurts!

-- eliyahu

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g01df1sh 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 3-Oct-2022 18:20:18
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1754
From: UK

@eliyahu


You have got to be insane to pay that for a board that is so out of date now its laughable. It was over priced before the price of everything went crazy.

Its meant to be an affordable Amiga what a joke..

Last edited by g01df1sh on 03-Oct-2022 at 06:20 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 3-Oct-2022 18:27:51
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12344
From: Norway

@g01df1sh

Maybe it has a few shortcomings, even with few shortcomings, its better than a vampire at 3D games, and video playback, and probably web browsing.

Sure, its not great at emulation and CPU heavy tasks. But I know few people who enjoy that computer a lot, so its not all bad. The price is low compared to a X5000.

the price will of cause total price will depends on number spare parts you have laying around, from you PC builds.

Overall, its many times better than a Blizzard PPC or Cyberstorm PPC that might be price similarly.

A video you look at, so see what this thing can do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X75KbnOpZhA

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Oct-2022 at 06:35 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Oct-2022 at 06:32 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Oct-2022 at 06:29 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 3-Oct-2022 18:40:47
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3084
From: Germany

You can buy a new PC with Intel's Alder Lake 12900K for 1000, which can emulate those machines better than the original.

Emulating a PS3 with Red Dead Redemption at 4K@60FPS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8v34BGhAE

A PS3 has 3 x 3.2Ghz PowerPC cores (each one roughly equivalent to a 1.8Ghz G5).

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Rob 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 3-Oct-2022 18:45:08
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6219
From: S.Wales

@g01df1sh

Yeah you could get a TF1260 with a rev 6 68060 for that kind of money.

Last edited by Rob on 03-Oct-2022 at 06:45 PM.

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agami 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 1:13:03
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1156
From: Melbourne, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@g01df1sh

Maybe it has a few shortcomings,

Maybe?

Quote:
Maybe it has a few shortcomings,

Few?

Quote:
even with few shortcomings, its better than a vampire at 3D games, and video playback, and probably web browsing.

Sure, its not great at emulation and CPU heavy tasks. But I know few people who enjoy that computer a lot, so its not all bad. The price is low compared to a X5000.
...
Overall, its many times better than a Blizzard PPC or Cyberstorm PPC that might be price similarly.

Acube should use that in their marketing. "I know a few people who enjoy the SAM460, so it's not all bad".

Comparing it to X5000 and the Blizzard PPC add-on cards assumes that AmigaOS 4 is the ultimate goal.

AmigaOS 4 offers zero advantage. The potential warm and fuzzy feelings wear off very quickly, and then one is left with an OS that can't do much, provides very little in terms of net positive feedback, at a premium cost.

Quote:
the price will of cause total price will depends on number spare parts you have laying around, from you PC builds.

It still won't be bellow a thousand euro.

And please don't use the H word.
- Playing 3D games can be a hobby. Modern PC or console can do it much better than any AmigaOS 4 system, at a much better price.
- Playing classic '90s and early 2000s 3D games can be a hobby. Any PC from the past 20 years, or any 6th or 7th generation console can do a better job at a substantially better price.
- Playing retro 2D 16bit games can be a hobby. The options are too many to count. Starting from less than $100 USD.
- Messing around with alternative hardware platforms can be hobby. A PowerBook G4/Mac mini G4/PowerMac G5 running MorphOS can be had for less than half the price of even the cheapest AmigaOS 4 setup.
- Running an alternative OS to Windows and macOS can be a hobby. Plenty of Linux distro's with many different Desktop Environments and Window Managers, and even a few BSD distro's that are offer much more than AmigaOS 4, especially in terms of 3D games, video playback and web browsing.

Trying to re-live some nostalgic computing past, whilst simultaneously feeling like an elite member of an Amiga NG community and bending over backwards to justify the high price of entry, all the while funding a go-nowhere attempt at resurrecting a dead platform, is not a hobby.


@anyone
Could you in all honestly, for a fact know and claim, that if the Amiga computing platform never got shafted with the bankruptcy of Commodore, and continued to evolve over the last three and a half decades through a succession of owners, that Amiga OS today it would look more like AmigaOS 4, or would it likely look more like Gnome 43?

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Hans 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 4:43:01
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4985
From: New Zealand

@agami

Quote:
Could you in all honestly, for a fact know and claim, that if the Amiga computing platform never got shafted with the bankruptcy of Commodore, and continued to evolve over the last three and a half decades through a succession of owners, that Amiga OS today it would look more like AmigaOS 4, or would it likely look more like Gnome 43?

I'd expect it to look like a more polished and higher performance version of what AmigaOS 4 is today, with a fully modern web browser, email app, etc. MacOS X still bears some resemblance to classic MacOS, and I'd expect AmigaOS would still have its own character.

It's a shame that ACube can't get the price down. The Sam460 could be a great entry level machine if it were entry level priced. It's tough to do at low volume, though.

Hans

_________________
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agami 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 5:34:42
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1156
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Hans

Quote:
I'd expect it to look like a more polished and higher performance version of what AmigaOS 4 is today, with a fully modern web browser, email app, etc. MacOS X still bears some resemblance to classic MacOS, and I'd expect AmigaOS would still have its own character.

I said "In all honesty". Mac OS X 10.0 through 10.4 bore some (very minor) resemblance to the Amiga OS 3 contemporary, System 7. The visual and paradigmatic similarities served as connective tissue to help users transition.
Apart from the adherence to certain paradigms such as the top universal menu bar, and the positioning of window widgets, from Mac OS X 10.5 it started to take a drastic departure from many previous conventions, in favor of introducing new ones, and away from the look and feel of System 7, Mac OS 8, and 9; and marching ever closer toward a new visual identity, with new workflows, and blending of macOS and iOS/iPadOS.

Were there an unbroken evolution of Amiga OS from 1993 to today, Amiga OS 4 (developed by a properly funded team) would be more of a Mac OS 8.5/9.0 contemporary of the late '90s.
If one imagined that an owner of Amiga OS in an alternative history would've done a similar thing to Apple, which is not hard to imagine as both Linux and QNX where considered as a new kernel in our timeline, there could've been a major shift to a completely new os around the same time as Apple introduced Mac OS X.

Amiga OS 5 or Amiga OS V, (not the Amiga Inc. hjigh level concept of Amiga OS 5), would've had some similarities with Amiga OS 4.x in early 2000s. While macOS Monterey and the soon to be released Ventura are still recognizably Mac OS, they are quite different from Mac OS X 10.1/10.2, and especially Mac OS 8.5/9. Within the 20 years from early 2000s to 2022, today's Amiga OS would only in a few minor ways resemble Amiga OS 4, and would look more like a modern OS, along the lines of macOS 12 or Linux with Gnome 43.

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PixelHi 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 5:41:13
#11 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2022
Posts: 34
From: Unknown

@g01df1sh

I pre-ordered mine 🙂, insane? Maybe, but that applies to anyone who is using os 3.1 or 4.1 in 2022.

I tried emulation of Os 4.1 or running it on PPC, it works, but it far from comfortable use.

Looking how Sam460 works it should be be pretty decent computer. Speed? My phone is faster, I don't care.

At least there is hardware that will run AmigaOS 4.1. I'm waiting for 1222 for about 6+ years.

For me it's entry level, it's cheaper that x5000.

Question of price, speed is like saying that paying $90 per steak is expensive and you can get more meat in McDonald's. Sure, you can 😜.

Last edited by PixelHi on 04-Oct-2022 at 05:42 AM.

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PixelHi 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 6:04:03
#12 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2022
Posts: 34
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

Red or black would be nicer, maybe it's green since it is pre-production?

At the same time it will be in a case without window, so I will not see it at all.

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agami 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 6:18:09
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1156
From: Melbourne, Australia

@PixelHi

Quote:
Red or black would be nicer,

Gold foil would be more appropriate

_________________
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Hans 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 6:33:50
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4985
From: New Zealand

@agami

Quote:
I said "In all honesty"...

You think I'm being dishonest in my speculation over a parallel reality that doesn't exist. Seriously? That's just weird.

Hans


_________________
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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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Hypex 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 6:57:46
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10830
From: Greensborough, Australia

@agami

Quote:
Apart from the adherence to certain paradigms such as the top universal menu bar, and the positioning of window widgets, from Mac OS X 10.5 it started to take a drastic departure from many previous conventions, in favor of introducing new ones, and away from the look and feel of System 7, Mac OS 8, and 9; and marching ever closer toward a new visual identity, with new workflows, and blending of macOS and iOS/iPadOS.


With OSX they did in fact dump Mac OS. Now they may call it Mac OS today, or macOS, but it's obviously developed from OSX. Mac OS is worlds apart from Mac OSX and macOS since it's a different OS under the hood.

I suppose Windows can't escape this either. It's always been called Windows. But Windows 3.1 and Windows '95 were worlds apart on a technical level. Windows 10 has more in common with '95 and close versions, but they are still worlds apart now and visually it adopted a plain look in later versions.

Quote:
Were there an unbroken evolution of Amiga OS from 1993 to today, Amiga OS 4 (developed by a properly funded team) would be more of a Mac OS 8.5/9.0 contemporary of the late '90s.


Depends. There was talk of AmigaOS4 both before the later PPC OS4 and the earlier Amiga Inc x86 OS idea. The term has been used in the least by Amiga people in 1993. But just after 3.1 is rather too early for a version bump.

Quote:
If one imagined that an owner of Amiga OS in an alternative history would've done a similar thing to Apple, which is not hard to imagine as both Linux and QNX where considered as a new kernel in our timeline, there could've been a major shift to a completely new os around the same time as Apple introduced Mac OS X.


I tend to think AmigaOS as AmigaOS would have been fine if they had cleaned it up. Let's face it, AmigaOS 3 was a vast improvement, but it was still sloppy. Open up a drawer and there's all random icons all over the place. Now that's mostly non-OS software but it looks bad. Then there is CLI windows popping up with console output. Or using an API name as a program name, in the case of ASL. It's just one big mess! The Amiga never had a shot at being taken for a professional OS because it never looked professional and looked like a slop fest!

However, talk of ripping the guts out and replacing the kernel is another matter. The Amiga was first with multiasking for the masses in a home computer. But it lacked certain features that meant it wasn't suitable to be upgraded to multi core and actual threading. The first became last. They ended up having the same problem as Apple did with MacOS when they wanted to upgrade it with proper multitasking. Mind you, I've used MacOS 9 on PPC and it did a damn fine job of multitasking, even if it wasn't technically capable. What ever form of co-operative multitasking it had, I could not tell the difference, and it was way better than what Windows had.

But, with Amiga Exec, an immediate issue was locking all tasks when a specific shared object needed modifying. I note, only the one object needed locking which was already supported with semaphores internally, but they chose to do it by suspending all multitasking. Sorry Carl S, but that's just a bad idea, so a bad design. Then Exec has no concept of threads. I know the talk people say about AmigaOS being one big process and programs are threads. Sorry guys, that's not the real world, it doesn't have proper threading and no, a child process is not a thread. It's still a different process.

The way things were going they needed to change CPU just like Apple. And unlike Apple that got another heads up in the graphics department in the late 80's, leave planar in the past. And with it, had Commodore produced an actual OS4, they really would have needed to clean it up. Not only the visual aspect but internally. They really would have needed to sandbox 68k apps. Similar to what Apple did but the Apple way was quirky booting another MacOS then the apps looked the part. So transparent 68k programs running. And of course, they would have needed to define a new API, with object based locking methods, support for real threads and being ready and compatible with multicore. And also fix things up like datatypes, where it looks like they hacked OOP onto C. Well they did infact hack Obj-C OOP ideas into non-OOP C includes, made more confusing as were there references to messages, and Exec already defined what messages are in Amiga speak. So they would have needed to rebuild the API and includes from the ground up.

My take on it anyway.

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Rob 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 4-Oct-2022 7:35:43
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6219
From: S.Wales

@agami

At least it's real.

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agami 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 5-Oct-2022 1:01:16
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1156
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Hypex

With all that said, I'm curious, were it continually developed to adapt to changing demands from users and adapting to modern hardware trends, how much would you speculate that "amigaOS 2022" would look like AmigaOS 4, and how much would it possibly resemble an actual contemporary OS like macOS 12 or Gnome 43?

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BigD 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 5-Oct-2022 9:21:48
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6622
From: UK

@agami

Since most Amigans in its heyday just loaded games from disk mostly bypassing the OS do you really think the Workbench/AmigaOS was ever more than a curio even for actual Amiga owners?

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PixelHi 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 5-Oct-2022 10:14:54
#19 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2022
Posts: 34
From: Unknown

@BigD

I used Amiga for school, wrote papers on it (Final Writer) used Turbo Calc. Games were nice, but seeing Quake running on 486 DX...

I didn't care it was AmigaOS.

I didn't care about it vs. Windows. It worked, it was cheaper than PC. It did what I needed. Later that started to change and Pentium 100mhz with S3 Virge (Win95/98) destroyed my A1200 with Apollo 040 in basically any aspect. Than PIII Slot 1 etc.

I remember when Blizzard PPC was released and my friends wet their pants and showed me transparent Magic Menu. I was like... Great, for that money I can have computer with SOFTWARE that can do something for me.

Today, it's 100% hobby, entertainment. Some people pay $25 for 2h of movie in cinema, I buy Amiga hardware and will have more that 100h of entertainment with Sam460le... it's actually cheaper that 50 movies in the cinema and maybe there is resale values, maybe.

So, even at that time Amiga was a hobby. Lack of hardware killed it. Maybe bankruptcy helped with that?

Last edited by PixelHi on 05-Oct-2022 at 10:17 AM.
Last edited by PixelHi on 05-Oct-2022 at 10:15 AM.

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BigD 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 5-Oct-2022 11:15:15
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6622
From: UK

@PixelHi

I would buy an A500 Mini and save your money but Classics are just as expensive if you get the bug. Just don't buy it just to Snapshot All in Workbench! It isn't a killer app itself!

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