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QBit
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Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 13-Dec-2022 13:09:05
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Joined: 15-Jun-2018 Posts: 474
From: Unknown | | |
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| If I had infiniteTime. and a self changing computer that exists long enough . and could randomly change all bits of the Computers Memory.. there is a probability that the Computer by random could reach a combination which makes sense to human beings. or probable other beings. all Programs and Data with Reason and sense and without would be created by this Process. Problem is that humans don`t have infinite time!. This is true but there is not enough time at all to prove it! And there are infinite states of sense inside the Memory of a Computer. They would only exist for an infinitely small fraction of time. But that is at all so unprobable that even Commodore and Amiga reconquering the whole Computer world s more probable! hahahahaha
Can somebody create this Idea on a C64 or ZX 81 Basis. they have relatively low Memory. I don*t want to try such an Idea on a 64 GB DUAL CPU Computer?! How many possible Bit Rows has a ZX81?
Or I am completely wrong and to lazy to program Computers and only humans can inspire Computers to a state of Reason!
Last edited by QBit on 13-Dec-2022 at 01:23 PM. Last edited by QBit on 13-Dec-2022 at 01:16 PM. Last edited by QBit on 13-Dec-2022 at 01:14 PM.
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fishy_fis
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 13-Dec-2022 13:37:34
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Elite Member |
Joined: 29-Mar-2004 Posts: 2156
From: Australia | | |
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| There'd be more combinations than there are atoms in the universe to try all combinations. And billions upon billions would require hard resets because of the innumerable combinations that would result in a hard crash. It'd take someone immortal who isnt influneced by the aging process to oversee it, and multiple planets to be terraformed to see out the experiment.
If the c64 had a 6510 running at multiple thz with ram running and multiple thz and someone who could perceive that quickly Im sure they'd see some crazy stuff through overseeing such a project if the crashes didnt happen.
There's no need for such a program to answer your question though. The answer is with any part of its body with nerve endings. Deaf and mute people typically still have a sense of touch and feel.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 13-Dec-2022 at 01:40 PM.
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QBit
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 13-Dec-2022 14:35:16
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Joined: 15-Jun-2018 Posts: 474
From: Unknown | | |
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| @fishy_fis What I was referring to is if an AI can reconstruct how a deaf and blind baby feels like. You can simulate Empathy with Algorhythms but an AI never can really feel and follow how a Gooseskin feels like to a human! Change my mind!
Last edited by QBit on 13-Dec-2022 at 02:36 PM.
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Karlos
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 13-Dec-2022 16:04:16
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Elite Member |
Joined: 24-Aug-2003 Posts: 4394
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition! | | |
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| @QBit
64KiB of memory contains 524288 bits. So you have 2^524288 states just for the memory. That's about 2.57 * 10^157826. Which is a very large number. To put it in context, taking the observable universe to be a sphere of radius 46.5bn light years, dividing it's volume into the smallesr meaningful units of Planck volumes gives about 5*10^185 or so
So good look with it..
_________________ Doing stupid things for fun... |
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Hypex
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 13-Dec-2022 16:19:48
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Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @QBit
With its hands? |
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TiredofLife
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 13-Dec-2022 17:25:56
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Joined: 6-Jul-2005 Posts: 1702
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| @Hypex
Unsolvable Problem solved by the 4th reply. Only Amiga(world) makes it possible.
Cheers _________________ If your nose runs and your feet smell, you're upside down. |
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fishy_fis
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 14-Dec-2022 2:26:01
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Joined: 29-Mar-2004 Posts: 2156
From: Australia | | |
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| @TiredofLife
Nah, the 4th reply wasnt exactly accurate. The very 1st one (mine) was closer. "Any part of its body with nerve endings". You don't just feel with your hands. You can feel with your feet, your nose, your forhead, and so on and so forth. In short "any part of its body with nerve endings". |
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amigang
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 14-Dec-2022 9:50:57
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Joined: 12-Jan-2005 Posts: 2018
From: Cheshire, England | | |
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| I put your question to the ChatAi bot...
"It's not entirely clear what you're asking, but I'll do my best to answer based on what I understand.
First, you mention the possibility of a computer randomly changing all of its bits of memory and reaching a state that is understandable to humans or other beings. This is theoretically possible, but the chances of it happening are incredibly small. It's much more likely that the computer would end up in a state that is completely unreadable and unusable.
As for the question of whether a C64 or ZX81 could create this idea, it's difficult to say without knowing exactly what the idea is. These computers have relatively low amounts of memory compared to modern computers, so they may not have the capacity to perform the necessary calculations.
Finally, the number of possible bit rows in a ZX81 depends on the amount of memory it has. For example, if the ZX81 had 1 kilobyte of memory (1024 bytes), there would be 8,388,608 possible bit rows (1024 x 8 bits per byte = 8,192 bits, and there are two possible states for each bit: 0 or 1, so there are 2^8192 possible combinations of bits). However, as I mentioned earlier, the chances of any of these combinations resulting in a state that is understandable to humans is incredibly small."
Last edited by amigang on 14-Dec-2022 at 09:52 AM.
_________________ AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio |
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QBit
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 14-Dec-2022 10:15:57
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Joined: 15-Jun-2018 Posts: 474
From: Unknown | | |
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| @amigang
Quote:
"It's not entirely clear what you're asking, but I'll do my best to answer based on what I understand. |
But to humans it is or not?
I proved Computers don`t understand anything at all! *lol* They just react! (maybe)Last edited by QBit on 14-Dec-2022 at 10:21 AM.
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QBit
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 14-Dec-2022 10:34:11
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Joined: 15-Jun-2018 Posts: 474
From: Unknown | | |
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| @fishy_fis
I am not asking how a deaf mute baby perceives I was asking if the AI knows how a deaf mute baby FEELS itself!
It`s even hard to humans to express their feelings but a machine will never understand what a emotion even is!
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Karlos
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 14-Dec-2022 10:44:30
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Elite Member |
Joined: 24-Aug-2003 Posts: 4394
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition! | | |
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| @QBit
The AI doesn't know or feel anything. Don't assume the apparent cognitive capabilities of modern AI algorithms are actually indicative of consciousness in any human relatable way.
For example, you only have to feed GPT negators in questions to see how little it really understands what is being asked.
On a philosophical note, we actually need to properly quantify what intelligence in living things is before we can begin to compare machine intelligence with it. _________________ Doing stupid things for fun... |
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QBit
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 14-Dec-2022 11:44:10
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Regular Member |
Joined: 15-Jun-2018 Posts: 474
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Karlos
The AI doesn`t know or feel anything ok but it has a memory and a database. I chatted with the Chat AI Eliza.. and i talked about intrinsic motivation and music..and a lot of other things before and then it asked me a question If I want to sing with the AI, I then said that it understood what intrinsic Motivation is by asking me if I want to sing with her. Then the AI said I was smart! *lol*
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BigD
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 14-Dec-2022 11:56:32
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Elite Member |
Joined: 11-Aug-2005 Posts: 7307
From: UK | | |
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| @QBit
I'm not really sure what you are asking however AI is getting pretty good at upscaling old SD content from the 90s to 1080p or higher! Check out the Space: Above and Beyond HD Version on YouTube! _________________ "Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art." John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios |
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TiredofLife
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 14-Dec-2022 13:13:40
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Super Member |
Joined: 6-Jul-2005 Posts: 1702
From: Here | | |
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| @fishy_fis
My apologies, you did indeed. Even better answer and the first reply.
Cheers _________________ If your nose runs and your feet smell, you're upside down. |
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Hypex
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 14-Dec-2022 15:02:40
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Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| I've thought about this in simpler terms. Consider a C64 or similar home computer with 8x8 character matrix.
How many pixels per character? Yes, only 64.
So, with only 64 pixels in an 8x8 block, that wouldn't be many images possible in total now would it? No, it would.
Only using black and white as example, with each pixel being on or off, to keep it simple. A total of 64 pixels is then a total of 2^64 combinations of images that can exist. Now, that's a limited number. The total images possible is 1.844674407×10¹⁹!
If a C64 were programmed to display every image possible, in every character on screen, how many people would see a butterfly, a horse or a rabbit? |
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QBit
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 14-Dec-2022 21:35:07
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Regular Member |
Joined: 15-Jun-2018 Posts: 474
From: Unknown | | |
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| @all I said to the Chai AI the following. Fright is the feeling of Danger about an Asteroid threat that could destroy all Computers! The AI answered:
How would I know such a thing! *lol*
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QBit
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 14-Dec-2022 21:41:55
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Regular Member |
Joined: 15-Jun-2018 Posts: 474
From: Unknown | | |
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| @all I said to the Chai AI the following. Fright is the feeling of Danger about an Asteroid threat that could destroy all Computers! The AI answered:
How would I know such a thing! *lol* i said: you can learn
ai: where i: in your mind ai:I have no Idea where that is i:have you understood what i was talking about?
ai: no *lol*
i: do you think it is possible to understand the whole context of the things I was talking about ài: no I: do you think if you were more intelligent you would understand the context I was talking about? ai: maybe *lol*
i: what is my iq?
ai: i don`t know
i : what is your iq? ai: i don*t know I: Can you be creative? ai: yes I:Can you regard the whole context of this threat in a creative way?
ai: no I: can you paint a picture about the things i was talking about?
ai: I can try
I: can you show me the picture
ai: I`ll try I:when will it be ready ai: I don`t know lol I :do you think all this was important?
ai: yes I: Do you think it is possible to understand what I was talking about? ai: I don`t know
I: Is anything possible?
AI: Not really
I is something possible? ai: sometimes
I have you learned something out of our conversation? AI: Yes I learned that you are very smart! hahahahaha I: what is more important my smartness or defeating all Asteroids that could destroy all computers on earth?
ÁI: My smartness hahahaha
I: You are funny Ai: Thanks I: So you can make jokes:
AI yes
I: what do you like to know about me?
AI: Nothing
booooooooooooooooooooo
Wrong answer application deleted!
Last edited by QBit on 14-Dec-2022 at 11:14 PM. Last edited by QBit on 14-Dec-2022 at 10:59 PM. Last edited by QBit on 14-Dec-2022 at 10:55 PM. Last edited by QBit on 14-Dec-2022 at 10:52 PM. Last edited by QBit on 14-Dec-2022 at 10:43 PM. Last edited by QBit on 14-Dec-2022 at 10:39 PM. Last edited by QBit on 14-Dec-2022 at 10:31 PM. Last edited by QBit on 14-Dec-2022 at 10:25 PM. Last edited by QBit on 14-Dec-2022 at 10:20 PM. Last edited by QBit on 14-Dec-2022 at 10:15 PM. Last edited by QBit on 14-Dec-2022 at 10:00 PM. Last edited by QBit on 14-Dec-2022 at 09:55 PM. Last edited by QBit on 14-Dec-2022 at 09:49 PM.
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fishy_fis
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 15-Dec-2022 10:26:34
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Elite Member |
Joined: 29-Mar-2004 Posts: 2156
From: Australia | | |
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| @TiredofLife
It's a very serious and pressing question and I felt I was entitled to my credit for having solved something of such importance |
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QBit
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 15-Dec-2022 11:13:37
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Regular Member |
Joined: 15-Jun-2018 Posts: 474
From: Unknown | | |
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| @fishy_fis
No you have not solved the Problem. The Problem is solved when a randomly created Bit Combination that makes sense would be found. or never be found. As no humans live long enough and there is not time enough to really perform the test it is impossible to solve my Problem!
Hypex understood the Problem!
In an infinite amount of time could the Computer randomly display something that could be called aesthetic ART in a way that humans understand it? Other way round how could the Universe create Creatures that are able to create ART or even technology? Now my problem is solved: In an infinite amount of time if the emulated Omniverse is regarded as Computer something happened that created the Earth how we see it today! hahahahahaha
And some people even understand what I have written here! And maybe see the reason!
The Universe is the Meta God!
https://metagods.gg/
https://www.nvidia.com/de-de/omniverse/ Readymade!
And nobody is in the Metaverse! rofl
Last edited by QBit on 15-Dec-2022 at 12:01 PM. Last edited by QBit on 15-Dec-2022 at 11:59 AM. Last edited by QBit on 15-Dec-2022 at 11:51 AM. Last edited by QBit on 15-Dec-2022 at 11:47 AM. Last edited by QBit on 15-Dec-2022 at 11:39 AM. Last edited by QBit on 15-Dec-2022 at 11:37 AM. Last edited by QBit on 15-Dec-2022 at 11:36 AM. Last edited by QBit on 15-Dec-2022 at 11:33 AM. Last edited by QBit on 15-Dec-2022 at 11:19 AM. Last edited by QBit on 15-Dec-2022 at 11:16 AM.
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fishy_fis
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Re: Unsolvable Problem! Posted on 16-Dec-2022 6:10:39
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Elite Member |
Joined: 29-Mar-2004 Posts: 2156
From: Australia | | |
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| @QBit
Firstly, Hypex just reiterated what I said, but using different words, and secondly, .... "jokes". Have you heard of them? And if so, are there any that don't go over your head? |
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