@agami

Well I suppose the reason I'm paying for errant MorphOS is... They have had countless updates (likely around 30), nothing else is even remotely close from anywhere in Amiga land.

The OS is very stable and mature and runs programs natively. Heck even a base install without Chrysalis installed it can handle many situations including real email (soon to have calendar and invites, a first on any Amiga email program.). This isn't even mentioning 3.18 (3.17 is less than a year old) that is due soon that will have better multimonitor support(which is all ready the best in AmigaLand), and other important updates, or mentioning PolyOrga, video drivers, pagestream, iris, wayfarer(just to name a few) that are being or have been updated. On a decked out 2.5 QC or 2.7 DC I can do most everything I want at very responsive level. So I can use it as a daily driver and enjoy it, and even run a 68k program for fun. They have a full team that has worked well with their community and have helped me on many occasions.

From what I can see, they have a system, ready to be ported that is robust and not rabbit holey and from some videos we have seen already running on AMD64, which would break compatibility to some extent, but the key is they have native apps that work and are robust and can be ported.

Call me a dreamer I guess...

I'd like to see more peace and good will.

Otherwise, there appear to be many ways to go futurewise.

I hope it all works out in the end.



I have an ancient A2000HD and an ancient OS4 system. The A2000HD is currently retired, because I am using mostly OS4. I also use AmigaOS 3.2.1 running on e-uae running on OS4. The emulation is quite good, but I miss the real Amiga 2000 keyboard.

I am also interested in MorphOS and AROS.

@Matt3k Thanks for your impression of MorphOS.

From my point of view, AROS seems to be going off in many directions and I don't know which one to follow. Using my old HP laptop, I have tried AspireOS package and Icaros Desktop package. I like both but have not installed either one permanently on the laptop. I am assuming that both of these are part of AROS X86 family.


redfox

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@redfox

AspireOS and Icaros Desktop are X86 (32bit)

Aros One X86 is nice too. Perhaps interesting

https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=112616

I am primarly interested in 68k myself and on doing something based on Linux when available

A one Terahertz Amiga would be nice.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

@DiscreetFX

Terahertz? Yes would be cool

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: aros x86 or arm should be just amiga graphics and gui on top of unix. everything below graphics and gui should be cut off and dropped.

But the GUI of Amiga/AROS is the one that needs replacing (like with MUI/DOpus/Scalos/etc). Everything under it is cool though. So...

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- The wiki based MorphOS Library - Your starting point for MorphOS
- Software made by jPV^RNO

@OlafS25

Thanks OlafS25. I appreciate your reply and views.



redfox

@redfox

Thanks for the nice wishes and response.

If you are interested in MorphOS, pickup a powerbook or a powermac and test the free version... See if you like it. I'm most interested in programs these days and not the OS. The OS can be customized to suite your taste, but the biggest benefit I have found is the ability to install or use any of the native programs and get stuff done or have fun. A 2.5 QC PowerMac is incredibly fast and not expensive, you can watch HD content and youtube in wayfarer is pretty snappy. 3d games are insane, Quake III is so impressive, esp if you install bigfoots latest point release of the drivers (every update is just killer).

For programs and productivity and daily driving, I really like what it has to offer and perhaps you will feel the same. Good luck!

Nothing wrong with Icaros or other flavors, the are nice to. Found that I needed so much rabbit hole/unix programs I felt like I should just install Ubuntu or Mint and be done with it. That is just my feeling on it...

@Matt3k

Thanks so much. I am interested in MorphOS.


redfox

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @Karlos What do I want? pwzamiga1 repeating the same crap like a broken record as a constant in this troubling times Scalos running as a full amiga desktop (hopefull this year) so I can start with a distribution based on it. Mixing Aros (AxRuntime) and Linux based on a amiga desktop (scalos) as full linux desktop running on AMD64 is the first concept that convinced me. I see anthing NG related without chances, expecially if it needs expensive custom hardware or very old already dying hardware. At least something new is possible with AxRuntime/Scalos. We will see when it works and is useable. For me it is at least a real concept and vision. The current amiga market is retro and that means 68k. You can see that on the videos of amiga 37. All NG platforms are a tiny niche in a niche today (except aros today running as apolloos on V4). AxRuntime/Scalos perhaps helps to get a little out of the current bubble we are in. We will see.

100%

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All the way, with 68k

@Matt3k

Quote:

Matt3k wrote: @agami Well I suppose the reason I'm paying for errant MorphOS is... They have had countless updates (likely around 30), nothing else is even remotely close from anywhere in Amiga land ...

Without a doubt, looking back over the years, the MorphOS team has accomplished much that is worth remarking. I'm sure that if it weren't for the AmigaOS 4 telenovela they'd have fared even better, but that doesn't mean that the proverbial sails of their current ship have much wind left in them.

I too applauded the MorphOS effort and used it on my PowerBook G4 1.67GHz and Mac mini G4 1.5GHz a decade ago. I would've liked to have used it on a G5 but they never got around to expanding PowerMac G5 support to include either of my two G5 systems.

The MorphOS strategy to run on disused Apple PowerPC hardware was a good one. It not only meant that the team didn't have to worry about hardware production, but it also meant that the shrinking post-Amiga user base had access to relatively inexpensive, yet sufficiently modern computing hardware, both desktops and laptops.

But here now in 2023, the lack of a second act from the MorphOS team is worrisome. In order to survive it must find a new hardware host, and I'm sure the senior members of the team know this. Of course they should support the existing PowerPC user base, but like Apple in 2005, they should start their 2-year transition to x86-64. Post-haste.

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All the way, with 68k

@agami

All great points!

I would agree that they know that a processor shift is necessary and dare I say inevitable. But, although the MorphOS has been very patient, kind, and helpful (extremely as a matter of fact) with this dunce cap wearing user. I have no idea of their plans, other than the few items they have made public concerning 3.18, that I'm greatly looking forward to.

They tend to keep everything close to the vest and release it when it's done.

I gotta say, their patience and assistance with me over the years has made MorphOS a great experience. I feel bad that so many hard feelings have been had within the camps, Redfox certainly has a good attitude that I can learn from :). Sorry if I seemed nasty in my reply above...

As you said if they were the one banner we all fell behind in the mid 90's, I can only imagine where we would be at!

They seem very active to me, so I'm not too worried about anything or the wind at their back :). Heck even getting the native NIC working on the PCIe PowerMac would be a great feature to me. From the pennies they make on this OS, it is a masterpiece to me. I try to encourage other to toss them donations when they can afford it, as I have done. I have had no problem tossing these guys beer money every now and then.

@agami

Quote:

Without a doubt, looking back over the years, the MorphOS team has accomplished much that is worth remarking. I'm sure that if it weren't for the AmigaOS 4 telenovela they'd have fared even better, but that doesn't mean that the proverbial sails of their current ship have much wind left in them.

How so? Both MorphOS and AROS are independents. How would they do better if OS4 wasn't around?

Linux has done well despite Unix being around. The comparison is similar. AmigaOS4 is a proprietary OS while MorphOS and AROS are a custom reimplementation of AmigaOS.

Quote:

I too applauded the MorphOS effort and used it on my PowerBook G4 1.67GHz and Mac mini G4 1.5GHz a decade ago. I would've liked to have used it on a G5 but they never got around to expanding PowerMac G5 support to include either of my two G5 systems.

Is the hardware model just not supported? Must have some quirk if it can't be resolved by using supported cards. I have a nice small G4 laptop I'd like to use for MorphOS but since it has an NVidia GPU it won't work. Funny, AROS has supported NVidia in the past, so AROS-PPC could possibly work. MorphOS shares code with AROS so I expected MorphOS to support NVidia by now.

Quote:

The MorphOS strategy to run on disused Apple PowerPC hardware was a good one. It not only meant that the team didn't have to worry about hardware production, but it also meant that the shrinking post-Amiga user base had access to relatively inexpensive, yet sufficiently modern computing hardware, both desktops and laptops.

I recall there was the ODW after the PegasosII as the follow up. But I never saw one. I saw an Effika which, even back at the time, looked worse than a Tabor looks now. Things must have hone downhill for bPlan as well since they stopped designing PPC boards. Compared to an ODW the Effika was a backwards step.

The Apple hardware was a good choice, but, it would also mean that no new MorphOS dedicated hardware would be produced and force users to scrounge second hand markets for old computers to run it on. Against this is the AmigaOne hardware that was produced as new but still not up to the level of an old G5. The X1000 was the closest and it was downhill from there. AmigaOS4 could also have ended up on superior but older hardware, just like MorphOS, but a stop was put to that. The Moana port sought to run AmigaOS4 on Mac hardware, possibly before MorphOS did, but it remains dubious if it was an official port. The story being, a demo disc was stolen, the disc torrented and the project was killed off immediately because of it. I don't know why, it was a beta demo, so no source code was on it. It didn't run on a sought after laptop, just this rare MacMini thing I never had. Perhaps instead of killing it off they should have swallowed their pride, finished it, released OS4 for Mac like they did on PegasosII and be done with it. Instead, Trevor is still trying to get the Tabor out which will be as old as a MacMini before too long, and the could have saved him the trouble.

Quote:

But here now in 2023, the lack of a second act from the MorphOS team is worrisome. In order to survive it must find a new hardware host, and I'm sure the senior members of the team know this. Of course they should support the existing PowerPC user base, but like Apple in 2005, they should start their 2-year transition to x86-64. Post-haste.

Don't know. Isn't an x86/64 port now obsolete? It will soon be 20 years since Apple moved to x86. And a few years ago they started moving away from it. In fact, the iPhone and iPad could be said was the moment where they started moving away. Now Arm is an official fork of mac/OSX. Perhaps the MorphOS team should focus on an Arm future instead. Both AmigaOS4 and MorphOS have been chasing Apples tail since Apple moved off 68K. They catch up to PPC and while there Apple then jumps ship to x86 just after going PPC64. Eventually moving to x86/64, while both AmigaOS4 and MorphOS remain stuck on PPC32. By the time they move off they will be targeting an obsolete CPU. Maybe just skip playing catchup and port to ARM64 now. After all, if Apple moving away from the best CPU they can get at the best price, there has to be a good reason for it. ARM is the new PPC.

@Matt3k

Quote:

As you said if they were the one banner we all fell behind in the mid 90's, I can only imagine where we would be at!

That would have required rescuing the AmigaOS assets in time and then bringing all the developers together in an official capacity. Unfortunately, it just took too long to sort the post Commodore Amiga assets out, that independent hardware and OS solutions split out with their own visions. So the end result is an OS based on official Amiga code, two other OS that copied it, and none that run on any newer hardware based on the Amiga.

@Hypex

Quote:

@agami Quote: Without a doubt, looking back over the years, the MorphOS team has accomplished much that is worth remarking. I'm sure that if it weren't for the AmigaOS 4 telenovela they'd have fared even better, but that doesn't mean that the proverbial sails of their current ship have much wind left in them. How so? Both MorphOS and AROS are independents. How would they do better if OS4 wasn't around? Linux has done well despite Unix being around. The comparison is similar. AmigaOS4 is a proprietary OS while MorphOS and AROS are a custom reimplementation of AmigaOS.

In theory, if AmigaOS 4 didn't exist then all AmigaOS fans would have jumped on the MorphOS bandwagon instead. There's an element of truth to that.

However, blaming external circumstances for "failure" (as in, didn't get a big enough chunk of the market to grow) is short-sighted, and an easy way to avoid looking critically at your own mistakes. I personally think that each of the NG AmigaOS flavours had a chance to "capture the market" and become sustainable if they'd had a better approach, or at least had not made so many blunders. None of the teams presented a clear vision of AmigaOS' future that resonated with users, and then followed through on it. The next excuse would be "we have scarce resources," to which I'd say "yeah, but you could do a lot better by directing those resources/talent more strategically."

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 16-Jan-2023 at 06:58 AM.

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http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hypex

Quote:

And a few years ago they started moving away from it. In fact, the iPhone and iPad could be said was the moment where they started moving away. Now Arm is an official fork of mac/OSX.

Apple’s relationship with ARM goes way back - Apple was one of the founding partners of Advanced RISC Machines back in 1990, and they used ARM in the Newton series, long before the iPod. Sorry, iPhone… eh iPad. Apple were also using x86 for development of OSX between 1996 and 2001 (Rhapsody) as well as in products such as some early airports. I am quite confident that they make sure that their toolchain remains rather architecture agnostic and code tested on multiple architectures, so they easily can change architecture whenever there is need for it.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@Hans

Quote:

I personally think that each of the NG AmigaOS flavours had a chance to "capture the market" and become sustainable if they'd had a better approach, or at least had not made so many blunders. None of the teams presented a clear vision of AmigaOS' future that resonated with users, and then followed through on it. The next excuse would be "we have scarce resources," to which I'd say "yeah, but you could do a lot better by directing those resources/talent more strategically."

I agree. Can't comment on MorphOS or AROS because I'm not on a familiar ground there, but as far as OS4 is concerned, neither Hyperion nor A-EON have sadly proved themselves as trustworthy driving forces showing an appropriate level of corporate vision and professionalism.

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SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

@Trixie

It never ceases to amaze me that people expect a level of professionalism and corporate vision for the platform. Really? I hate to be the arctic gust of cold reality but the Amiga has absolutely no real world relevance today. It continues to exist today solely because of enthusiasts that enjoy it as a passtime. And while I'm sure some users manage to make it their daily machine for work, it's only because their work doesn't demand modern "corporate" levels of software compatibility, security or performance. Also, those users are the minority among the minority.

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Doing stupid things for fun...

@Hypex

NVidia in Aros is only for LittleEndian so no go for MorphOS (or Aros PPC).

@Karlos

if you do not need modern cloud services or do things that require higher security and do not exchange data with outside world you can certainly live with f.e. MorphOS. For a normal office neither AmigaOS nor MorphOS (nor AROS) are suited, at least to me.

The NG users using it for everday tasks as main system are certainly a niche in the NG niche in the amiga niche