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      /  2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
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Karlos 
2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 4-Mar-2023 19:11:44
#1 ]
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Joined: 24-Aug-2003
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From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

I appreciate there are various threads about this around the place some of which are pretty gargantuan. I also know there are people paying much more attention than I have over the last few years.

Is there a definitive statement of who (Cloanto, Hyperion, AEON, etc) currently has which rights (access to the source, development of OS for 68K, distribution and sales of said development etc), which are being contested, by whom and why?

To avoid this becoming a triggered mess of personal opinions it would be helpful if links to evidences can be provided against any statements.

Last edited by Karlos on 04-Mar-2023 at 07:34 PM.

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Kronos 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 4-Mar-2023 19:32:46
#2 ]
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@Karlos

"facts only" does not work when there is overlapping and contradicting truths......

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Karlos 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 4-Mar-2023 19:33:46
#3 ]
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From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@Kronos

Truth is subjective. That's why I asked for facts.

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Kronos 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 4-Mar-2023 19:38:13
#4 ]
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@Karlos

Well the only "fact" is that almost 30 years ago a "clueless German judge" could find no evidence that the rights to AmigaOS were part of the C= bankruptcy auction.

Unless you can fix that everything that came afterwards is just "subjective truths".

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Karlos 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 4-Mar-2023 19:41:15
#5 ]
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From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@Kronos

I want to try and understand what is going on right now, if that's ok.

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kolla 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 4-Mar-2023 22:47:03
#6 ]
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Joined: 20-Aug-2003
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From: Trondheim, Norway

@Karlos

Right now? Infringements, that’s what :)

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fishy_fis 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 5-Mar-2023 0:27:29
#7 ]
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Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

@Karlos

While not particularly useful to your question, your uncertainty parallels the entire scenario.

No-one really seems to know and for every claim that "X" owns something and offers ambiguous evidence "Y" has an alternate view and can offer equally ambiguous evidence.

Unfortunately the userbase is who suffers based on a handful of vultures both trying to play businessman (poorly at that) and milk a handful of scrap $.
Holding a hobby ransom to live a delusion is the act of cockroaches as far as Im concerned.

Some sort of class action lawsuit by the users to remove all copyrights from the system would be the ultimate outcome, but no-one would know who to aim it at.

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QuikSanz 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 5-Mar-2023 1:53:31
#8 ]
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Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1236
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@Karlos,

I believe member "Number7" has the latest facts on this court case.

Chris

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tonyw 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 5-Mar-2023 3:18:33
#9 ]
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Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3240
From: Sydney (of course)

@Karlos

I have no more knowledge than you about the original question, but an ancillary question might be answerable:

Does anyone know who owns the sources to Wordworth? I ask because Digita International was wound up in 2015 and it would be nice to think that someone cluey had control of the sources now.

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agami 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 5-Mar-2023 5:37:39
#10 ]
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Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Karlos

For the straightest possible answer to your plain and simple question, one needs to get it from the horses mouth.

While they'll be precluded from discussing particulars of any open case, they should have no problem divulging their present Amiga-related assets, disputed or otherwise, should one have that kind of rapport with the parties in question.

Piecing together a red-twine board from all the public records over the past couple of decades of court cases is a severely daunting task; Unless that's exactly what @number6 has been working on for all these years, hidden away in a secret room behind what appears as an innocuous bookcase in a run-of-the-mill home office.
In which case, I'd really love to see it.

Last edited by agami on 05-Mar-2023 at 05:38 AM.

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Karlos 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 5-Mar-2023 12:51:15
#11 ]
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Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 4394
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@thread

The main reason for asking is that the whole thing seems to be, to draw a software analogy, deadlocked. Meanwhile there's renewed interest in the platform that nobody seems to be in a position to service. I say nobody, props to the CoffinOS team.

It would be a genuine shame if, once things like PiStorm become more widely available, the A500 mini and so on experience growth while there's no ongoing development due to some stupid N-way legal Mexican standoff.

Across the fence, the Atari community always seem to be working together towards something positive. They too are looking at the PiStorm and Emu68K. I fully expect them to achieve a "next gen" hybrid hardware/emulation 68K experience pretty soon. It's hard not to envy them at times.

Last edited by Karlos on 05-Mar-2023 at 12:52 PM.

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fishy_fis 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 5-Mar-2023 13:08:00
#12 ]
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Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

@Karlos

Isnt CoffinOS effectively just a 68k AROS distros tailored to Apollo core based systems?
Main branch of 68k AROS is still being worked on as well.

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number6 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 5-Mar-2023 13:10:16
#13 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@Karlos

If you eliminate talk of opinion and speculation concerning the entire topic, one is left with the current status of the OS as determined by the court, which remains frozen for reasons I have explained countless times.

Items that the "companies" are currently developing, distributing, and selling are the only gauge one can use concerning rights, since these companies base their perceived rights on the current status of the 2 principal legal cases.

#6

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Karlos 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 5-Mar-2023 13:19:10
#14 ]
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From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@number6

Is it factually correct to say that Cloanto believe they have the sole right to distribute AmigaOS 3.x and Hyperion believe they have the sole right to further develop it? Or is that an oversimplification?

Last edited by Karlos on 05-Mar-2023 at 01:20 PM.
Last edited by Karlos on 05-Mar-2023 at 01:19 PM.

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number6 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 5-Mar-2023 13:29:19
#15 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
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From: In the village

@Karlos

Quote:
Is it factually correct to say that Cloanto believe they have the sole right to distribute AmigaOS 3.x


Since you are asking about what Amiga Corporation (in your words "Cloanto") -believes-, I would say this quote from Amiga Corporation speaks to that topic:

Quote:
Under the agreement Ben Hermans reneged on, Amiga would have granted Hyperion the right (which it currently doesn't have) to release AmigaOS 3.2. If Hyperion wants to release it as a free update, Amiga has no objection, but Hyperion can't exceed its rights AND profit from it.


Source

#6

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Karlos 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 5-Mar-2023 13:40:34
#16 ]
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From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@number6

This shows how out of touch I am with the current state of affairs :(

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number6 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 5-Mar-2023 13:51:17
#17 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@Karlos

Re:the 2nd part of your question

Quote:
and Hyperion believe they have the sole right to further develop it?


Since they have had multiple releases of 3.2.x, it is a reality at present and not necessary to guess what they believe.

Edit added: Please keep in mind that you mentioned "3.x" and I am responding in relation to "3.2.x" only. The situation regarding 3 prior to 3.2 is entirely different.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 05-Mar-2023 at 01:58 PM.

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Karlos 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 5-Mar-2023 14:29:52
#18 ]
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From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@number6

I almost pity the judges. Which rational person would assume that 3.2.x was released years after 3.9?

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number6 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 5-Mar-2023 14:38:54
#19 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@Karlos

Quote:
I almost pity the judges. Which rational person would assume that 3.2.x was released years after 3.9?


Senior judge Martinez is fully aware, since he was presiding in the 2007-9 case as well.

In fact this is why the "complicated" case initially filed in New York was moved to Washington State. The reasoning given was in fact that resolution could be achieved faster by having a presiding judge already familiar with the history and this level of detail.

#6

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Karlos 
Re: 2023: Who owns what? Facts only, please.
Posted on 5-Mar-2023 14:45:20
#20 ]
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Joined: 24-Aug-2003
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From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@number6

He must be ecstatic. Poor sod.

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