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      /  some thought about retro
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ppcamiga1 
some thought about retro
Posted on 6-Jun-2023 6:56:22
#1 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 574
From: Unknown

I try in last year to switch to retro on Amiga.
it not working.
main problem with retro on amiga is tv/monitors.
after EU ban of CRT in 2009 CRT are expensive and hard to get.
CRT are always big, with small screen and radiation.
But now prices are ridiculous.
Amiga games on LCD dont't look like thirty years ago.
today LCD are ususally two or three times wider than CRT thirty years ago
and games in 320 resolution on today LCD looks more like c64 games than Amiga.
Instead of pixelart you get pixelation.
pc games thirty years old also looks bad on LCD.
resolution have to be doubled to look on LCD like on CRT thirty years ago.
640 on LCD is what 320 on CRT was thirty years ago.
Thats why I return to NG.

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BigD 
Re: some thought about retro
Posted on 6-Jun-2023 13:31:50
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7142
From: UK

@ppcamiga1

There are plenty of solutions to attempt to overcome a reliance on CRTs. I still retain a VGA PC monitor for use with my scandoubled big box Amiga but find a 15khz capable LCD monitor OK for other Amiga gaming needs. I am experimenting with using the RTG modes with the Pistorm32 and am very impressed! I have hardly been using the RGB Amiga Custom Chip graphics modes in the last few days! If you need good 15khz then invest in Stephen Jones' new monitor!

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Karlos 
Re: some thought about retro
Posted on 6-Jun-2023 14:38:41
#3 ]
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Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3717
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@ppcamiga1

How does "NG" solve the problem of retro games from 30 years ago looking terrible on modern LCD displays?

That's right, it doesn't. You play them in UAE on the same display. You can at least use a window with exact integer scaling I suppose

With WinUAE at least, there are various filters that approximate the CRT artefacts like mask screens, pixel edge blur, scanlines, bloom and so on. Some of them do a pretty decent job these days.

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pixie 
Re: some thought about retro
Posted on 6-Jun-2023 16:25:34
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2921
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@Karlos

The thing is while more recent games from the 3d wave such as doom or alien breed emulation is great on LCDs, but I for the life of me can't get past some jitter on demos/games. I've tried gsync, 144hz monitors, and nothing...

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BigD 
Re: some thought about retro
Posted on 6-Jun-2023 18:43:21
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7142
From: UK

@pixie

I don't miss CRT fuzz on low res Amiga games at all. It is the buzz of old Amiga monitors that I remember. 14" was horribly small too! We don't know we're born with modern displays! MagicTV has required to work without a migraine on interlaced high res modes and it was all a bodge even in AGA!

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pixie 
Re: some thought about retro
Posted on 6-Jun-2023 20:33:32
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2921
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@BigD

I had a 1084S it was nice! But i worked on 640x256.Then I got a 21" CRT for using with RTG and so on. One would love to have the full retro experience, but if one can't get it, whether it's due to emulation or lcd, it's not very enjoyable. I am talking only regarding those 2d games.

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V8 
Re: some thought about retro
Posted on 6-Jun-2023 22:16:29
#7 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2022
Posts: 101
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

Yes, old tv signals don't really work all that well with modern LCDs. That is common for all systems and consoles from that era and earlier.
You should try to build a GBS-Control. They are very inexpensive to build and the results are amazing.

Here are some amiga folks that seem very happy with it:
https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=104781

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QBit 
Re: some thought about retro
Posted on 7-Jun-2023 4:12:20
#8 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Jun-2018
Posts: 461
From: Unknown

@all
All 1st World Problems! *lol*

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ppcamiga1 
Re: some thought about retro
Posted on 8-Jun-2023 8:23:33
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 574
From: Unknown

I know thera are sd but Amiga games still looks like shit on LCD fullscreen
compared to CRT.

Second thing that I don't like in Amiga pseudo retro in 2023
is that everything is converted to 24 bit by LCD TV/monitor.
CRT are analog devices and just display what Amiga produce.
LCD TV/monitors are DIGITAL devices that work only on 24 bit color
so everything LCD TV/monitor get is converted to 24 bit color.
From developer point of view Amiga pseudo retro in 2023 is waste of time.
99,99% users use 24 bit digital devices to view graphics from Amiga.
use worse than 24 bit graphics on Amiga is waste time for nothing.

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pixie 
Re: some thought about retro
Posted on 8-Jun-2023 9:54:54
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2921
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@ppcamiga1
Quote:
From developer point of view Amiga pseudo retro in 2023 is waste of time.
99,99% users use 24 bit digital devices to view graphics from Amiga.
use worse than 24 bit graphics on Amiga is waste time for nothing.

And yet people do it way more then playing with 24 glorious bits, go figure

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Karlos 
Re: some thought about retro
Posted on 8-Jun-2023 11:05:54
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3717
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@pixie

I think some of ppcamiga's points are valid here. I know, I know, that's unusual. To truly appreciate graphics designed on and for 50 or 60Hz PAL/NTSC CRT displays, it's either find one or put up with the fact that sharply defined square pixels aren't what retro games were designed for.

This is one place where emulation helps because you can emulate a lot of the visual artefacts but I do find that somewhat dissatisfying too.

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pixie 
Re: some thought about retro
Posted on 8-Jun-2023 13:06:25
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2921
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@Karlos

Nothing a bit of scanlines doesn't solve! ;)

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agami 
Re: some thought about retro
Posted on 9-Jun-2023 4:46:55
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1408
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Karlos

Quote:
Karlos wrote:
@pixie
To truly appreciate graphics designed on and for 50 or 60Hz PAL/NTSC CRT displays, it's either find one or put up with the fact that sharply defined square pixels aren't what retro games were designed for.

This is one place where emulation helps because you can emulate a lot of the visual artefacts but I do find that somewhat dissatisfying too.

Yes, but surely there's more variance in the user's experience than just 'perfect' or 'shit'.

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