@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: @Hammer emulator is emulator. you fool yourself.

You're fooling yourself with dead ends and uncompetitive CPU prices. Idiots like you failed to recognize that the Amiga is not Mac.

Quote:

drop this crap emu68.

Provide a comparable RPI 4B + PiStorm32 price with a PPC solution i.e. four PPC cores with each having three instructions per cycle and out-of-order processing @ 1.8 GHz clock speed on a functional small board computer.

Quote:

just play native quake quake ii doom on rpi.

Not AmigaOS (TM).

Quote:

cheaper, faster and dont need amiga as joystick interface

Look in the mirror with your PPC.

Last edited by Hammer on 20-Jun-2024 at 07:44 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 20-Jun-2024 at 07:43 AM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@Hammer

you change your amiga into mouse joystick and keyboard interface for rpi.
all of this copied from atari and pc. it is extremelly stupid.
drop this shit pistorm. just use rpi and play native quake 2.
cheap fast nice not take too much space.

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

you change your amiga into mouse joystick and keyboard interface for rpi.

Amiga is but an interface to mouse joystick and keyboard... there's that, perhaps you think it's something magical

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

you change your amiga into mouse joystick and keyboard interface for rpi.

That's not what PiStorm is - you keep the chipset, the zorro bus and everything else, that's the entire point of PiStorm.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

BlizzardPPC+Bvision provided the same or worst experienc still, perhaps he wasn't much fan of PPC back then either

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

Native Quake II on Raspberry Pi?

My memory can be a tad fuzzy at times, but I'm pretty sure that Quake II was natively released for the x86 gaming PC platform on 9th December 1997.

So if you want to play it "natively", then play it on a single core Pentium CPU with a 3dfx Voodoo 3D graphics card, or similar PCI or AGP 2D + 3D graphics card combo.
On Windows 95.

Everything else is a port and/or has "emulation" involved.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@agami

Quake II is open source.
suprise there is port Quake II for rpi.
so yes native Quake II on rpi.
with Open GL 3.0 support.
run fast on full screen 1920 x 1080.
drop this shit pistorm use linux on rpi
it is cheaper faster better

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 21-Jun-2024 at 04:14 PM.

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

drop this shit pistorm use linux on rpi it is cheaper faster better

One does not exclude the other, you know - a raspberry pi in a pistorm can _also_ run native software, such as Quake. Why does it bother you that people use raspberry pi to emulate 68k CPUs?

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: @agami it is cheaper faster better.

Isn't that the exact opposite of the A-EON PowerPC motto?

"A native port" is the same oxymoron as "a native migrant".
I have run several different Linux distros on Raspberry Pi 4B 8GB, and none of them made me feel like the platform was ready for desktop computing. Maybe the Pi 5 fares better.

But if you're advocating for ditching the Linux desktop for a trimmed down Linux-based retro game launching interface, then excuse me if I choose to replace the Linux game launching interface with an Amiga hardware and software game launching and playing interface.

Last edited by agami on 22-Jun-2024 at 02:46 AM.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: https://youtu.be/b74vNajqCcA?si=8ZS5N2A37Zt8BHYx

"$2,000 486 PC"?
I guess he doesn't know that a 486 PC could've been purchased for the same price as an A1200HD

Last edited by agami on 22-Jun-2024 at 02:54 AM.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

you change your amiga into mouse joystick and keyboard interface for rpi.

FALSE. Paula and CIA timers are used. For A500, I purchased low cost ECS Denise to exceed 28 kHz Paula.

PiStorm-Emu68 equipped with A500 and A1200 still runs Deluxe Music 2.

The whole point with Emu68's turtle mode features are to run WHDLoad Amiga games.

Look in the mirror with your PPC solution.

Fact: Amiga's CPU wasn't Commodore's.

Fact: There's NO Commodore Amiga chipset with the so-called PowerAmiga NG! At least the modern PC still has PC/AT/VGA legacy e.g. Ryzen 9 7950X with ROG Crosshair X670E Hero and RTX 4090 can still boot into real mode MS-DOS.

The effort for SBEMU project https://github.com/crazii/SBEMU to allow modern PCs run bare metal MS-DOS games with classic SoundBlaster.

Commodore Amiga chipset is Amiga's PC/AT/VGA legacy equivalent link to the past.

Amiga's bare metal games are akin to PC's bare metal MS-DOS games with Commodore's difference.

Amiga is not a Mac.
Amiga is not a new world PowerMac.


Quote:

all of this copied from atari and pc.

FALSE. Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_F_keyboard

Modern keyboards has it's origins with IBM System/23 Datamaster. IBM PC 5150 reused it.

Look in the mirror with your PPC solution.
Quote:

it is extremely stupid. drop this shit pistorm. just use rpi and play native quake 2. cheap fast nice not take too much space.

You're shit.

Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jun-2024 at 03:27 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jun-2024 at 03:13 AM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@agami

Quote:

agami wrote: @kolla Quote: kolla wrote: https://youtu.be/b74vNajqCcA?si=8ZS5N2A37Zt8BHYx "$2,000 486 PC"? I guess he doesn't know that a 486 PC could've been purchased for the same price as an A1200HD

486DX-50 (50 Mhz motherboard quality) is expensive compared lower cost 486SX2-50 (25 Mhz motherboard quality) and 486DX2-66 (33 Mhz motherboard quality).

Mainstream PCI has 33 Mhz for cost reasons. Later mainstream PC has a single slot AGP with 66 Mhz and the rest has lower cost 33 Mhz PCI.

Fast symmetric multiple slots equipped PCs are in workstations and servers.

Mainstream PCs has multiple asymmetric slots with a single fast slot.

Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jun-2024 at 03:36 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jun-2024 at 03:35 AM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@ppcamiga1

Neither the RPi 3 nor RPi4 will give you an OpenGL 3.0 context because neither has full hardware support for it.

Pi3s can't do OpenGL ES 3.x, it maxes out at 2.0.

Pi4 can do OpenGL ES 3.1 though not every 3.1 feature works as advertised.

Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jun-2024 at 03:54 AM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@matthey

Quote:

Year | CPU | 16-bit MUL cycles | 32-bit MUL cycles | 16-bit DIV cycles | 32-bit DIV cycles 1984 68020 25-28 41-44 42-57 76-91 1988 R3000 no 12 no 75 1991 R4000 no 12 no 75 1994 68060 2 2 22 38 1996 R5000 no 4 no 36

Reminders:

1994's MIPS
R8000 with MIPS IV instruction set, 2.6 million transistors.
R4600 with MIPS III instruction set, 2.2 million transistors.


MIPS R3000 has 110,000 transistors, hence Sony's CPU selection is in the 68020 to 68030 transistors range.

PS1's CPU is MIPS R3000A with about 125,000 transistors from LSI.

PS1's custom chipset has a 1 million transisiors budget. This is similar to Amiga Hombre's 1 million transisiors budget for the CD64 game console.

68EC060/68LC060/68060 is beyond Sony's PS1 "cheap RISC "budget".

Similar decision was made for Saturn's 68030 vs SuperH-2 selection.

Motorola's 68K is out of the mainstream 3D game console business.

AMD/Intel wouldn't be in games console business until AMD's K7 Duron (original Xbox prototype before Bill Gates override) and Intel Pentium III Coppermine-128L2 cache via the original Xbox.

------------------------------

For the creative workstation and desktop markets:

https://archive.org/details/amiga-world-1994-11/page/n16/mode/1up
From Amiga World Magazine (November 1994), page 17 of 68
Lightwave render on DeskStation Technology's Raptor workstation with two MIPS R4400 @ 150 Mhz

Lightwave benchmarks -
Train scene
A4000/040 68040 @ 40 Mhz = 3,293 second (WarpEngine vs. G-Force '040 review in AW, Sept. '94, p. 10)
Raptor = 497 seconds

Logo scene
A4000/040 68040 @ 40 Mhz = 6791 seconds
Raptor dual MIPS R44400 @ 150 Mhz = 601 seconds

The RISC threat is real since MIPS is the main CPU family for Advanced Computing Environment (ACE) MIPS-based Windows NT PC clones.

RISC world's MIPS and Alpha triggered the early triple digit Mhz race.

https://techmonitor.ai/technology/motorola_plans_to_sample_the_68060_next_quarter
Date: April 1994, 68060 sampling in the next QUARTER. 68060 is late for system integrators.
Amiga's experience with 68060 @ 50 Mhz starts in 1995.

In 1994, Pentium reached 100 Mhz. NexGen Nx586 reached 84 MHz.

In 1995, Pentium reached 133 Mhz and Pentium Pro reached 200 Mhz.
NexGen Nx586 reached 93 MHz.
Cyrix 6x86-P150 reached 120 MHz.

IBM fabricated NexGen Nx586 CPUs. IBM released its Cyrix 6x86 clone in 1996. AMD K5 was released in 1996.

68060 is out of mainstream creative workstation and desktop markets.

Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jun-2024 at 05:50 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jun-2024 at 05:29 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jun-2024 at 05:20 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jun-2024 at 05:18 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jun-2024 at 05:14 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jun-2024 at 05:02 AM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@Hammer

Quake II on my rpi still works with OpenGL 3.0 renderer selected

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 22-Jun-2024 at 04:51 AM.

@kolla

because people using this shit pistorm
change their amiga into mouse, joystick and keyboard interface for rpi.

@ppcamiga1
Which RPi?

It's OpenGL ES.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@agami

amiga mouse and keyboard were copied form pc 40 years ago
amiga joystick is atari joystick
so changing amiga into joystick mouse and keyboard interface is extremelly stupid way of wasting money for nothing
just use rpi with emulator

@Hammer

A 680EC30 would have fixed it for low cost systems like the A1200
But all this came to late or was to expensive for a mass market like the PS1.

@matthey

Quote:

Integer MUL and DIV instructions were not commonly used in the 68000-68030 era. 3D was not common even in the early 68040 era. It was 1992+ before 3D started to take off. Year | CPU | 16-bit MUL cycles | 32-bit MUL cycles | 16-bit DIV cycles | 32-bit DIV cycles 1984 68020 25-28 41-44 42-57 76-91 1988 R3000 no 12 no 75 1991 R4000 no 12 no 75 1994 68060 2 2 22 38 1996 R5000 no 4 no 36

68060 lost hardware 32x32=64 instruction.

68K instruction sizes on average are either 2 or 4 bytes each, and 6 bytes for longword (32-bit) instructions.

SysInfo's instruction usage is biased towards 6 bytes. 68060's 4 byte per cycle fetch from the instruction cache is performance-gimping for stream compute.

Motorola deliberately gimped the 68060.

68060 needs to be modified to improve sustained longword instructions stream compute.

Cyrix 6x86 fetches 16 bytes (128 bit) per cycle from the instruction cache.

Remember, early PC 3D accelerator Rendition Verite v1000 has a 25 Mhz MIPS-like custom CPU with a fast 1 cycle 32x32 MUL instruction, fast 1 clock approximate reciprocal instruction, 2 clock approximate integer divide, usual set of RISC instructions, "bilinear load" instruction. No hardware for Z buffers.

Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jun-2024 at 03:40 PM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB