@matthey

>The recommendation 68k system requirements for high res 640x480 are a 68060@100MHz. The >A500 Mini has to emulate the Amiga chipset too so the CPU emulation performance may decrease >with AGA. Choosing a chunky RTG mode should improve the performance for both.

The problem is not performance. The A500Mini AFAIK has a A53 or something like that. On the PiStorm3 using a Pi3 (A53) the game runs fine in 800x600 and with a bit lower fps but still smooth speed also in 1024x768. The problem is emulator settings. Especially the amount of memory allowed for Amiga applications (not using WHDLoad). Appearently the 500mini only allows 10 MB. Also other emulator settings need to be changed (JIT Enabled, and CPU Speed to "Best possible".

Not sure if this is possible. I was told that no. If some "hack" would allow this it surely would run on the 500Mini fine.

>It is interesting that the minimum CPU requirement for the 68k is a 68040@40MHz compared to a >PPC603e@175MHz. The recommended 68k CPU for 640x480 is a 68060@100MHz compared to a >PPCG3@800MHz. That is a huge difference in CPU requirements between the 68k and PPC. The >memory requirements and recommendations are the same though at 32MiB and 64MiB >respectively, likely because they are rounded values.

The recommendation has nothing to do with what is needed for the game. There is only 4 types of PPC WarpUP Systems - 175 MHz 603e, 233 MHz 604e, 400 MHz G4 and 800 MHz G3. I was told we need for the advertisement a minimum and a recommended system. So the two lower ones get minimum the two higher ones get maximum.

On a 100 MHz 060 the game runs smooth on a 060. On a 603e (the minimum setting) it also runs smooth on 640x480 - okay, maybe not the 175 Mhz one, but definitely a 240 MHz one). On the 400/800 MHz systems it runs smooth in 1024x768. And at a higher fps than 640x480 on the 060.

Also consider WarpUP System users are expecting to use higher resolutions than 060 users. This is why the recommended setup is higher there.

Also note the memory requirements which give 32 MB for Minimum and 64 MB for recommended. This of course should be 32 MB for all of them (actually in 1024x768 - the one with highest memory requirements - at most it uses up 20-21 MB, in Lowres 17-18 MB (so 16 MB was not enough which is why 32 MB was listed). Someone probably thought that Recommended should have higher values, or maybe that highend PPC Accelerators have always minimum 64 MB RAM ^^

Basically: You are comparing Apple with Oranges here. Basically the speed of minimum system on PPC is comparable to recommended "true 68k" system on 68k.

>Considering the major conflict of interest and continued advertising of your connection with >Hyperion Entertainment, perhaps you should mention that the port of Settlers II is by Look >Behind You and not by Hyperion. It appears Retro Games Limited (RGL) has no problems >communicating with and licensing from Look Behind You for THEA1200, perhaps because they >respect IP ownership instead of claiming it for themselves.

Why ? I do not need to mention that. It also is obvious by any news item who makes Settlers 2. I disagree that I need to do what you want me to.

The rest of your post sounds like confused nonsense to me.

MagicSN

Last edited by MagicSN on 22-Aug-2025 at 03:04 PM.

@MagicSN

Quote:

Not sure if this is possible. I was told that no. If some "hack" would allow this it surely would run on the 500Mini fine.

Considering the AGS 2.7 package on the Mini has Napalm working in AGA mode! It runs a bit faster than an 060/50 under RTG, so I would say yes! I'm not sure how to 'install' new games to AGS from an .iso but it will work via these hacks in theory! I will try and install it under AMiNIMiga when it arrives. Not expecting miracles but that allows 128MB of Ram so again it could work if the Workbench/emulation settings were optimised.

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@BigD

Quote:

Napalm working in AGA mode! It runs a bit faster than an 060/50 under RTG

Arm based emulation boxes do not have bottleneck of the Zorro slots.
And maybe they spend more time optimizing for AGA, and perhaps they where more experienced with it. and perhaps lacking in talent regarding RTG

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Aug-2025 at 08:29 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Aug-2025 at 08:00 PM.

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MagicSN Quote:

The problem is not performance. The A500Mini AFAIK has a A53 or something like that. On the PiStorm3 using a Pi3 (A53) the game runs fine in 800x600 and with a bit lower fps but still smooth speed also in 1024x768. The problem is emulator settings. Especially the amount of memory allowed for Amiga applications (not using WHDLoad). Appearently the 500mini only allows 10 MB. Also other emulator settings need to be changed (JIT Enabled, and CPU Speed to "Best possible". Not sure if this is possible. I was told that no. If some "hack" would allow this it surely would run on the 500Mini fine.

As BigD pointed out, THEA500 Mini hack/unlock may be needed and using RTG leaves more processing performance for emulating the 68k CPU than using AGA. The AGA chipset in heavy use may require more processing power to emulate than a mid to high end 68k CPU. THEA500 Mini struggles with some AGA games that require less than half the performance of a 68060. The Cortex-A53 can emulate a 68060 if only emulating the CPU though.

MagicSN Quote:

The recommendation has nothing to do with what is needed for the game. There is only 4 types of PPC WarpUP Systems - 175 MHz 603e, 233 MHz 604e, 400 MHz G4 and 800 MHz G3. I was told we need for the advertisement a minimum and a recommended system. So the two lower ones get minimum the two higher ones get maximum. On a 100 MHz 060 the game runs smooth on a 060. On a 603e (the minimum setting) it also runs smooth on 640x480 - okay, maybe not the 175 Mhz one, but definitely a 240 MHz one). On the 400/800 MHz systems it runs smooth in 1024x768. And at a higher fps than 640x480 on the 060.

So a PPC603e with double the caches of a 68060 needs about twice the CPU MHz of the 68060 for a similar Settlers II experience. This is interesting considering the compiler support for the 68060 is so poor. The in-order superscalar PPC603e can only execute integer and shift instructions in one execution pipeline so it requires careful instruction scheduling or it is barely more than a scalar CPU and, even with PPC603e specific instruction scheduling, likely has a low multi-issue rate which is nowhere close to the 68060 45%-55% multi-issue rate with existing 68k code and 50%-65% multi-issue rate with code optimized for the 68060 (most compilers do not have 68060 specific instruction schedulers). Even though the PPC G3 design was based on the PPC603 design, it added the 2nd integer unit with shift ALU which made instruction scheduling much easier and no doubt increased the multi-issue rate with it. It is easy to see how the original PPC603 with the same sized caches as the 68060 gave PPC such a bad reputation resulting in them quickly doubling the caches and shrinking the chip die, while stopping the already announced 68060@66MHz. Yet there are games more than 3 decades later that recommend a 68060@100MHz from 68060@50MHz rated CPUs with only modest gains to the max clock frequency from an optical die shrink. What a strange dystopian world of politics and corruption we live in that affects the 68k Amiga.

MagicSN Quote:

Also consider WarpUP System users are expecting to use higher resolutions than 060 users. This is why the recommended setup is higher there.

The expectation for high resolution should be based on the CPU and GPU performance and with a PPC603e with 16kiB I+D caches being roughly half the performance of a 68060 with 8kiB I+D caches for Settlers II, PPC users should adjust their expectations for the Megahertz Myth and RISC/PPC hype. This is ignoring the PPC603e chip process advantage over the 68060 and the likelihood of having a newer and better GPU but you are only as fast as your PPC bottleneck.

MagicSN Quote:

Also note the memory requirements which give 32 MB for Minimum and 64 MB for recommended. This of course should be 32 MB for all of them (actually in 1024x768 - the one with highest memory requirements - at most it uses up 20-21 MB, in Lowres 17-18 MB (so 16 MB was not enough which is why 32 MB was listed). Someone probably thought that Recommended should have higher values, or maybe that highend PPC Accelerators have always minimum 64 MB RAM ^^ Basically: You are comparing Apple with Oranges here. Basically the speed of minimum system on PPC is comparable to recommended "true 68k" system on 68k.

Maybe someone was adjusting for emulation memory footprint overhead. It is obviously not based on the PPC AmigaOS 4 minimum memory requirement of 256MiB or the 68k AmigaOS 3 minimum memory requirement of 2MiB.

MagicSN Quote:

Why ? I do not need to mention that. It also is obvious by any news item who makes Settlers 2. I disagree that I need to do what you want me to. The rest of your post sounds like confused nonsense to me.

The Amiga IP usurpers and squatters have soiled their reputation and some Amiga users and businesses will not support them by buying or licensing their products. It is especially dangerous for a business as licensing stolen IP means the loss to thieves and the valid IP owner still needs to be payed or may be sued as iComp discovered licensing pre-AmigaOS 3.1 from Hyperion. Unlike iComp, RGL performed due diligence and chooses to do business with the legitimate Amiga IP owner while refusing to do business with Hyperion. RGL may have been interested in licensing games from Hyperion too but it is too dangerous to license from corrupt businesses. Threats against RGL and their partners are further evidence of the corruption and RGL fans are more than likely not going to buy Hyperion products that is like investing in further threats, obstruction and lawsuits from Hyperion. Buying the 68k AmigaOS is not supporting Amiga developers but investing in Hyperion lawsuits. There are users and businesses which are savvy to what is going on and Hyperion and A-EonKit have likely lost a significant portion of the Amiga market who will not do business with them. There is a smaller portion of the Amiga market that blames Cloanto for the lawsuits too and will not do business with them. Your conflict of interest is to your disadvantage when you are asking Amiga users to buy the boxed version of Settlers II to support you while you advertise your connection to Hyperion.

@matthey

Quote:

As BigD pointed out, THEA500 Mini hack/unlock may be needed and using RTG leaves more processing performance for emulating the 68k CPU than using AGA. The AGA chipset in heavy use may require more processing power to emulate than a mid to high end 68k CPU. THEA500 Mini struggles with some AGA games that require less than half the performance of a 68060. The Cortex-A53 can emulate a 68060 if only emulating the CPU though.

Under Emu68 (JIT) with Clickboom's 68K Quake 320x200p demo1 benchmark, stock RPi 3A+ Cortex-A53 can do 68K emulation at Pentium II 300MHz equivalent. P96 RTG is the Broadcom VideoCore IV 2D driver.

Stock RPi 4B or CM4 Cortex A72 scales to scalar only Pentium III @ 700 to 750 Mhz level. Simple overlock without voltage increase can pass Pentium III 800MHz.

The current Broadcom VideoCore 2D driver is not 2D accelerated i.e. it's brute force CPU-driven with a dumb framebuffer.

Last edited by Hammer on 23-Aug-2025 at 03:58 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 23-Aug-2025 at 03:53 AM.

_________________

@MagicSN

Quote:

MagicSN wrote: @matthey >The recommendation 68k system requirements for high res 640x480 are a 68060@100MHz. The >A500 Mini has to emulate the Amiga chipset too so the CPU emulation performance may decrease >with AGA. Choosing a chunky RTG mode should improve the performance for both. The problem is not performance. The A500Mini AFAIK has a A53 or something like that. On the PiStorm3 using a Pi3 (A53) the game runs fine in 800x600 and with a bit lower fps but still smooth speed also in 1024x768. The problem is emulator settings. Especially the amount of memory allowed for Amiga applications (not using WHDLoad). Appearently the 500mini only allows 10 MB. Also other emulator settings need to be changed (JIT Enabled, and CPU Speed to "Best possible". Not sure if this is possible. I was told that no. If some "hack" would allow this it surely would run on the 500Mini fine. >It is interesting that the minimum CPU requirement for the 68k is a 68040@40MHz compared to a >PPC603e@175MHz. The recommended 68k CPU for 640x480 is a 68060@100MHz compared to a >PPCG3@800MHz. That is a huge difference in CPU requirements between the 68k and PPC. The >memory requirements and recommendations are the same though at 32MiB and 64MiB >respectively, likely because they are rounded values. The recommendation has nothing to do with what is needed for the game.

Then it's better that you update it, because it's a bit fuzzy from what you've stated against what I've seen here: https://www.indieretronews.com/2025/08/settlers-ii-gold-edition-hot-news-as.html

People should have a rough idea of what they get regarding what it's required.

There are several configurations reported, and reading through the lines people do the proper "pattern matching" and draw their own conclusions, like Matt did (and I as well, the first time that I've opened the link).

To be more clear, if you report this:

Recommended system requirements 68k (HiRes):

Amiga with graphics card
68060 with 100 MHz or higher (for resolutions higher than 640×480, a PiStorm is recommended)

and then this:

Recommended system requirements PPC version:

PPC Amiga with AmigaOS 4.1 or AmigaOS 3.2 with WarpUP
G3 800 MHz or higher
for resolutions higher than 640×480, a graphics card (PCI, AGP, or PCIe) is recommended

I assume that the target resolution is 640x480, and that both systems are able to run the game with a similar experience AKA frame rate & co..

If this is NOT the case, then there's clearly (!) a communication problem from the publisher (and NOT the readers/customers).


@Matt: as long as Hyperion doesn't get a single cent from this game, I don't any problem.

My CyberStorm only has a 200 MHz 604e… sob.

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@cdimauro

I actually agree with you and have written to Simon about the System Requirement stuff. It is also my own fault though, I could not see this issue when they gave me the system requirements for review (and also overlooked the other small issues like 600 MB HD Space needed and the 32/64 MB stuff).

Target resolutions are 320x256, 640x480, 800x600 and 1024x768.

Realistic for good playing experience is:

320x256: 40 MHz 040, 50 MHz 060 (very strong gfx card possibly also 640x480)
640x480: 100 MHz 060, PiStorm with Pi2, Lowend PPC Hardware (175 MHz 603e or such)
800x600: Apollo Vampire V4 (V2 was not speedtested but I expect to run 640x480 at minimum
1024x768: 400/800 MHz PPC, PiStorm Pi3, PiStorm Pi4, PiStorm Cm4, most AmigaOS4 machines (some of the oldest maybe only 800x600 or something), MacMini with MorphOS (running WarpUP version)

Note that several AGA Users already commented that they like the Lowres Look (on 1084 monitor). Actually I can fully understand it, it definitely gives this retro feel. When I first had the lowres version running I thought "wow, that strongly reminds of Settlers 1 on the Classic".

As to Matt I assume he just cannot handle that I work with people on both sides of this dispute (actually with more than two sides, on RetroArch projects for example I also do a MorphOS version - of retroarch, not settlers 2 - and try to do a AROS RetroArch as well. As to that my association with Hyperion (as publisher of other games of mine) having any influence - I do not agree. In the opposite - stepping back from Hyperrion would definitely have a negative influence on OS4 community.

MagicSN

@kolla

Cyberstorm is at same frequency a bit faster than Blizzard. I have values from a tester who said it is "well playable" on 800x600 on the CyberstormPPC, not 100% sure what clock frequency he was using.

@Hammer

As I said - the Cortex A53 has no issues with Settlers 2. An issue might be the Emulation Settings. I think 500Mini has the "CPU Speed 68020" Setting, and this absolutely destroys the speed of Settlers 2. Not sure if it is possible to change that settings (and there would be a way to set the "memory usable by Amiga-side" to higher than 10 MB. But the speed of the hardware is no problem. Not even when running the game in 1024x768. No overclocking needed. Doesn't matter if using AGA or RTG version.

MagicSN Quote:

As to Matt I assume he just cannot handle that I work with people on both sides of this dispute (actually with more than two sides, on RetroArch projects for example I also do a MorphOS version - of retroarch, not settlers 2 - and try to do a AROS RetroArch as well. As to that my association with Hyperion (as publisher of other games of mine) having any influence - I do not agree. In the opposite - stepping back from Hyperrion would definitely have a negative influence on OS4 community.

While it is likely true that AmigaOS 4 users are more likely to have a favorable opinion of Hyperion than the rest of Amiga users, it may not be as good as you perceive it to be.

1. AmigaOS 4 users are maybe 1%-5% of the Amiga market
2. very slow AmigaOS 4 and Mirari AmigaOS 4 development has lost support from AmigaOS 4 users
3. some AmigaOS 4 users are 68k fans too and would rather have RGL products than Hyperion litigation and shenanigans
4. Ben's Robin Hood like fairy tale justifying stealing from the oppressive, corrupt and incompetent Amiga owners has been exposed as a lie and Hyperion is far worse than the old Amiga owners

The tide has turned against Hyperion. At one time, perhaps 95% of AmigaOS 4 users and 75% of all Amiga users had a favorable opinion of Hyperion. Today, I expect more like 50% of AmigaOS 4 users and 25% of all Amiga users to have a positive opinion of Hyperion. With better knowledge of old Hyperion shenanigans and more open recent Hyperion shenanigans, negative opinions of Hyperion have likely become stronger as well.

MagicSN Quote:

Cyberstorm is at same frequency a bit faster than Blizzard. I have values from a tester who said it is "well playable" on 800x600 on the CyberstormPPC, not 100% sure what clock frequency he was using.

The PPC604e was a workstation class CPU that is much higher performance than the PPC603e at the same clock speed. The number of transistors gives a rough idea of how high end the CPU was.

CPU | caches | transistors
68060 16kiB 2,530,000
PPC603e 32kiB 2,600,000
PPC604e 64kiB 5,100,000

The PPC604e with double the caches of the PPC604 and PPC603e, did not have as high of clock speed as them, likely due to the slower access times of larger caches. The PPC G3 is based on the simpler PPC603 design instead of the more complex PPC604 design and L2 caches gave cache hungry fat PPC a 2nd wind. The cache efficiency advantage of the 68060 over PPC is on display with Settlers II. The 8-stage 68060 should have out clocked the 4-stage PPC603e and a 68060+ with double the caches was no problem for higher clock speeds but Motorola's AIM was to sacrifice the 68k for PPC.

@matthey

Yes, the AmigaOS4 market is smaller. But if we take Settlers 2 40 MHz 040 minimum the percentage is much higher than the 5% you name. And the remaining percentages are not "Hyperion enemies", many of them might not care on Hyperion (or in some cases never heard of them).

As to "3" such users usually are not haters like you but just want both supported. They are more like me (who supports both) than you. I see you ABSOLUTELY HATE IT that I support both. Thanks for confirming what I said ^^

The only hate I got asides from yourselves on Settlers 2 is from the "anything higher than an unexpanded A1200 is not an Amiga" crowd. I do not care for either's hate. And as neither you nor the A1200 unexpanded crowd will buy Settlers 2 it does not matter.

BTW it is not Ben with a Robin Hood tale, it is you

As to 603e vs. 604e - it does not matter why this is. It just is.

MagicSN

Last edited by MagicSN on 23-Aug-2025 at 08:42 PM.

MagicSN Quote:

Yes, the AmigaOS4 market is smaller. But if we take Settlers 2 40 MHz 040 minimum the percentage is much higher than the 5% you name. And the remaining percentages are not "Hyperion enemies", many of them might not care on Hyperion (or in some cases never heard of them).

I believe a conservative estimate of 68k Amiga hardware and emulation systems that may allow playing Settlers II is 150,000 units.

THEA500Mini 100,000
UAE/Amiberry 20,000
68040/68060 10,000
AC/Vamp 10,000
PiStorm 5,000
MiSTer 5,000
---
150,000

If there were 5,000 AmigaOS 4 hardware users, that would be 3%. Maybe there are a few more using emulation but where 68k Amiga emulation has better performance, better 68k Amiga compatibility and more mature emulators, I doubt there are many that use PPC AmigaOS 4 emulation for anything more than backup/testing or for a mobile system.

MagicSN Quote:

As to "3" such users usually are not haters like you but just want both supported. They are more like me (who supports both) than you. I see you ABSOLUTELY HATE IT that I support both. Thanks for confirming what I said ^^

Most Amiga users want free and fair competition in the Amiga market as do I. The problem is we have market coercion, collusion, corruption and IP violations which are unfair. I hate the unfair practices which are destroying the opportunity provided by the hot retro 68k Amiga market.

MagicSN Quote:

The only hate I got asides from yourselves on Settlers 2 is from the "anything higher than an unexpanded A1200 is not an Amiga" crowd. I do not care for either's hate. And as neither you nor the A1200 unexpanded crowd will buy Settlers 2 it does not matter.

No hate from me. I honestly believe my suggestion to disassociate from Hyperion and make it clear that Settlers II is not connected with Hyperion would benefit sales and you. I honestly believe Hyperion is hurting their game porting business with their shenanigans related to the AmigaOS and RGL. Why are they sabotaging THEA1200 maxi which enlarges the 68k Amiga market for their game porting business?

MagicSN Quote:

BTW it is not Ben with a Robin Hood tale, it is you

Ben was successful at brainwashing likely 95% of the AmigaOS 4 community into supporting his theft of the Amiga IP. Amiga Inc acted in good faith relate to AmigaOS 4 and Hyperion did not.

MagicSN Quote:

As to 603e vs. 604e - it does not matter why this is. It just is.

My additional info is helpful in understanding kolla's joke. A PPC604e@200MHz can easily support Settlers II.

Last edited by matthey on 24-Aug-2025 at 01:49 AM.
Last edited by matthey on 24-Aug-2025 at 01:46 AM.
Last edited by matthey on 24-Aug-2025 at 01:45 AM.

@MagicSN

Quote:

MagicSN wrote: @Hammer As I said - the Cortex A53 has no issues with Settlers 2. An issue might be the Emulation Settings. I think 500Mini has the "CPU Speed 68020" Setting, and this absolutely destroys the speed of Settlers 2. Not sure if it is possible to change that settings (and there would be a way to set the "memory usable by Amiga-side" to higher than 10 MB. But the speed of the hardware is no problem. Not even when running the game in 1024x768. No overclocking needed. Doesn't matter if using AGA or RTG version.

It's a front-end GUI wall software issue with RAM. "CPU JIT" can be enabled.

_________________

@matthey

matay what you wrote about market is pure bs

stop trolling start working on zune on aros

Quote:

stop trolling start working on zune on aros

oh... it's so cute! our lil analog SLM (in opposition to LLM) has evolved! There you can see in real time how he, all by himself, went from asking Mui to be ported to Zune, an open source reimplementation of it. Bravo!!

It never ceases to amaze me the beauty of human mind!

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@matthey

I am fully aware that 68k users are more (many of them using AmigaOS 3.2 BTW though also many older versions). Your list lacks a point. And no matter how much you hate it I will continue to support all viable Amiga and Amigaoid factions (I even got several donations by MorphOS and AROS users in the recent past - and of course lots of them from 68k users). If someone wonders on the AROS-part - I started to try to get RetroArch working on AROS - not yet successfully, but I am sure eventually I will.

>No hate from me. I honestly believe my suggestion to disassociate from Hyperion and make it clear >that Settlers II is not connected with Hyperion would benefit sales and you. I honestly believe >Hyperion is hurting their game porting business with their shenanigans related to the AmigaOS and >RGL. Why are they sabotaging THEA1200 maxi which enlarges the 68k Amiga market for their game >porting business?

Your whole message above drips of hate. And no, Hyperion is not hurting their games business.

Neither do they sabotage the a1200 maxi. Ah, you BELIEVED RGL Hyperion is the reason for lateness ? How gullible are you ? Hyperion BTW already offered RGL a OS licence long ago, but RGL does not answer them.

And I never claimed a 604e 200 MHz would not run Settlers 2...

Once I have to agree with ppcamiga1 though I usually don't - stop the trolling...

MagicSN

Last edited by MagicSN on 24-Aug-2025 at 07:26 AM.

@Hammer

What do you mean with "front-end GUI wall software issue" ?

Note CPU JIT is important but not the most important one. The most important one (but I guess this is the same like with JIT) is the "CPU Speed Maximum" Setting. I think they have it set to 68020 speed, and this totally destroys the performance of Settlers 2.

Note that Settlers 2 would NOT run through WHDLoad, so if changing these settings is only possible through WHDLoad this is not an option (appearently it is a problem to run AHI and CGX through WHDLoad - but myselves I neither have a Mini nor know much about WHDLoad, it is just what I was told on it - we initially had examined WHDLoad for the THEA1200 Support but ultimately went another route as we were told it would be really problematic for what we needed).

I could also imagine that for RGL it is not so interesting to get it running on 500mini, as it not running there gives another reason for people to buy an THEA1200. This is just my assumption though. Myselves I would be interested in it running on 500mini as it could mean more sales of the packaged version.

MagicSN

@MagicSN

I would suggest some testing under the AMiNIMiga soft mod Workbench environment. There's support for RTG and extra Ram upto 120MB I think.

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@MagicSN

Quote:

Neither do they sabotage the a1200 maxi. Ah, you BELIEVED RGL Hyperion is the reason for lateness ? How gullible are you ? Hyperion BTW already offered RGL a OS licence long ago, but RGL does not answer them.

Perhaps RGL doesn't actually believe them to provide a valid license...

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