A new independant study (not like the previews MS payed studies) comes to the conclusion that LINUX systems costs 30 per cent less than equivalent Windows systems. (Systems in large companies or organizations, not yet desktop computers)

Read part of the story @ the inquirer.

A resumée of the report is available @researchandmarkets.

If you want the complete report be prepaired to pay (YES! They are talking about OpenSource and ask you money for a report ) 1490 EURO!!!!!! (NO! THAT's NO TYPO!)

(So much for all those who are lamenting ove high software prices )

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@mbilla

I've got a copy of the Butler Group "Technology Evaluation and Comparison - Linux in the Enterprise".

It's pretty interesting so far (only up to section 4 so far) but the one message that they keep trying to drive home is that you should Ignore generalised Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) evaluations, the TCO of Linux varies dependent on an individual organisation?s circumstances .

I have yet to find out how they (both the Butler Group, and analysts in general) determine the TCO, but I suspect that it won't take many more iterations of the Linux kernel before it is very easy to install, configure and support - which will dramatically reduce the TCO, as you will no longer rely so heavily on tech support staff/contracts.

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@mbilla

Linux is 200% cheaper than Windows XP Home and 300% cheaper than Windows XP Pro.

Those analysts need to redo their calculations

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@AmigaMac

Cost to buy, install, run, repair, support, etc. - not just the initial up-front purchase costs...

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"A spokesman said that having Microsoft tell us that their products have lower TCO is like them telling us that the Earth is flat. "

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@AmigaMac
Quote:

Linux is 200% cheaper than Windows XP Home and 300% cheaper than Windows XP Pro.

LOL

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@Chunder

Quote:

have yet to find out how they (both the Butler Group, and analysts in general) determine the TCO

This is one of the common complaints about the reports. IMHO they should have a section at the beginning which defines TCO. I) Licensing, II) Updates, III) Training, etc. then later in the report define what components make up each section and the associated costs.

One thing I've found neglected in TCO is training for users. This will, of course, be largerly subjective. But, for example the majority of the computer users in the US use Microsoft at home. Bring them to work, give them Windows, and there's little to train plus they can always go home and try things themselves. I've seen many users panic when given Linux because they're afraid to break something.

Linux Kernel install -- I haven't tried it yet but I assume there's a way for the administrators to create a centralized install server like JumpStart with Solaris.

@BrianK

I think a lot of companies use a method from Gartner to determine TCO.

From an Adminstrator point view it is very nice when people are afraid to break something, because most of the time they do actually break something. And that costs a lot of money.

I have spoken with helpdesk people at our own company and the numerous times they had to run Ghost and that the users were complaining their own data on the C partition was gone and all the software that stopped working, eventhough it was installed on D (long live the Registry )

Things they do at home don't always work the same at work.

@BrianK

Quote:

One thing I've found neglected in TCO is training for users. This will, of course, be largerly subjective. But, for example the majority of the computer users in the US use Microsoft at home. Bring them to work, give them Windows, and there's little to train plus they can always go home and try things themselves. I've seen many users panic when given Linux because they're afraid to break something.

This is a major problem, because instead of teaching basic computer literacy in K-12 and colleges/universities, they teach mostly basic Microsoft-ware literacy. Most people don't know other type systems exist.

I think that Windows, Mac and Linux should be taught in basic computer literacy to teach people the fundamentals of computer literacy. A math instructor is not going to teach a student to do math one particular way, or an auto mechanics instructor teach a student only how to work on Ford engines. They teach fundamentals of those curriculums so those students can apply them in many different ways, basic computer literacy skills should be no different!

Last edited by AmigaMac on 06-Oct-2004 at 02:21 PM.

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@AmigaMac

Bing! Give the man the prize! ;-P

"Nail on head"* is the phrase that springs to mind - the number of people I know who consider themselves to be "computer literate", as they've been on advanced/technical training courses... but haven't got a clue if they aren't presented with the standard screen/desktop/menu/toolbar - let alone operating system!

(* used as a quote from a film I watched recently but can't remember which one; the character that kept saying it got very annoying very quickly... so I won't use it any more!)

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@BrianK
Quote:

One thing I've found neglected in TCO is training for users. This will, of course, be largerly subjective. But, for example the majority of the computer users in the US use Microsoft at home. Bring them to work, give them Windows, and there's little to train plus they can always go home and try things themselves. I've seen many users panic when given Linux because they're afraid to break something. Linux Kernel install -- I haven't tried it yet but I assume there's a way for the administrators to create a centralized install server like JumpStart with Solaris.

You don't need to be a computer freak to use Linux! The problem why many people are afraid of using Linux is that the installation of a distro like Debian or at some point RedHat isn't easy. Why? Because you can control everything during installation which isn't the case for Windows. People blindly trust what MS does install on their computers.
On the other hand in the US RedHat is the most used Linux because it is an American product.
Most people don't know that there are LifeCDs (Mandrake Go, Gentoo, Knoppix (the best so far) etc.) which you put into your CDROM drive reset your PC or MAC or PEGs and perhaps soon Amigas and or off into the Linux World. Everything runs from CDROM no need to delete or install any file on your HD (except for some temporary files which are deleted again when you finish your Linux session). You won't see a SHELL prompt, everything runs on GUI and mouse. You are even asked if your computer should act and look like Windows or Mac OS.
Everthing you need is on the CDROM (Office packages, Internet, games, pda sync software etc. much more than MS ever delivers with Windows).
If you finish your session the temp files are deleted and you're back (restart) into Windows as if nothing has happened.

(ATM there's a new Knoppix CD available in Germany for Windows users who do have problem with virii:

1) insert the CDROM into a WInPC
2) press Reset
3) Knoppix boots
4) From a GUI click the antivirii progs you want to start
5) this linux distro deletes all Windows related virii and associated files ESPECIALLY those Windows or MSDOS can't get off
6) shutdown session
7) remove CDROM
8)press RESET
9) Windows start without any infected files or virii!

You don't need to know a clue about LINUX. You just have to use a mouse, a CDROM and the RESET button (which most Win users use more often than the RETURN key

As for the big distros (RedHat, Debian, Mandrake, Suse...) they come with many CDROMs from 3 to 9 and more depending of the package and you get several 100 good progs.

Now if you install these distros it takes longer but is GUI/mouse based all the time. (It's not like Debian Linux or YDL Linux installation on A1, though YDL was very easy btw.)

Compared to SUSE (German) and Mandrake (French) the installation of RedHat (USA) looks like YDL compared to Debian on an A1. And that's why people are afraid of Linux.
Mandrake was and still is the easiest to install Linux distro.
As with SUSE you are asked many Qs, but if you don't answer them the system set all preferences as if you were a Windows user. Everything works from printer to modem to monitor.
The latest Mandrake version is even easier and faster to install than Windows XP!

You have always the choice to interact with the installation but you don't have to. Plus you can change the feeling and looking of the GUIs (yes there are many, KDE,GNOME....) to behave as Windows, MAC, Next or whatever, there's even an AMIGA Gnome version (no progs won't run, it's just the look and feel) etc.

Now for your problem, with training people.
Most software used in offices are office packages (wordprocessors, spreadsheets, DB), sometimes presentation software, GFX/CAD progs and often spezialized software written for the company you work for.

Most of these Windows packages do exist under Linux and they behave exactly the same way! (same menus, same shortcuts ... Linux programmers used to copy MS progs functionality now MS is copying Linux ideas!!!)
MS Office can easily be replaced by OpenOffice (the OO spreadsheet has many more functions than Excel)
Access DB can be replaced by mySQL which interacts with OO.
(BTW OO 2 due in 1st Q. 2005 has an integrated relational SQL DB, much like Access)
PowerPoint can be replaced by many presentation progs included or available for Linux (OO-Impress, KDE-presenter and others
GFX/CAD are included in Linux like GIMP 2 which behaves exactly as Photoshop (which most users/companies don't use (except for designers); Yes Photoshop has many more features, but most of these aren't used in office use, and filters for Photoshop work with Gimp)
What's left? Internet! Well here UNIX/LINUX invented Internet and still do. Most Linux browser works ways better than IE. Most email progs outperform Outlook. KDE has a very powerfull Outlook replacement which does even sync your PDA and GSMs!

The only problem I see is specialized software which was written for your company. If the source code or the software who wrote it still exists, it's no problem. It can be ported to Linux. So the functionality (shortcuts, menus) are still the same.
If the programs can't be ported, it's time anyway to change the software because it's too late Seriously, a big company has no problem to get written a new version.

The main advantage of Linux vs MS is besides lesser virii, the coherency in document formats. All Linux progs use an industrial standard to save data/docs, which can most times be read by other progs of the same category. This isn't the case for MS Word! Even the different Word versions can have problems reading other word docs!

There is not much training needed! Except that people can't break anything.

As for installing progs or Linux that not the users problem but that of a technician or administrator! Point. All other attempts end in incoherency or broken system.
(When I moved to another house 2 months ago, I had to get my family registered at the communal office: that was an adventure: this guy worked with EXCEL sheets which had the complete list of inhabitants (6600 or so) of the town.
The problem was that he had a sheet for every year. So according to him I wouldn't live in that house...until he noticed he had opened a spreadsheet of 1982!!!!!
I would have done the whole file with a DB but that was this guy's problem)

Now why are people afraid of Linux? They are spoiled by Windows.
In my classes I always show students that there's opensoftware too which works the same way as MS products. This way they won't pirate all software as they normally do.
All our school use MS related products (our country has signed a million contract with MS )
Since this schoolyear, all school computers also have OpenSource software installed just to
show the kids that there's not only MS.
MS Office Pro - OpenOffice
Access . MySQL
Photopaint - Gimp 2
Cabri - DRGEO (was DRGENIUS, was GENIUS)
Dreamweaver - NVU
IE - Firefox, Mozilla...
etc.

There's no need to be afraid of Linux, one should be more afraid of MS!

_________________
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@AmigaMac
Quote:

This is a major problem, because instead of teaching basic computer literacy in K-12 and colleges/universities, they teach mostly basic Microsoft-ware literacy. Most people don't know other type systems exist.

That's my point. They're MS spoiled!
When people do buy a new noname PC with just Windows installed they are complaining that Word, Ecxel etc is missing. I always have to explain that Windows is that the OS that makes the HW going. There's nothing much you can do with Windows, except Wordpad (which has big bugs) a kiddy useless paint prog and IE.
Normally I do install OpenOffice so that they do read/write MS Office files

Then I tell them with a MAC you get some more software installed right from the beginning and with Linux you get 100s progs for free which you can use at once.

Also most people think the computer is the monitor and Windows is Word, Excel, PowerPoint, IE etc.

_________________
A computerworld without MS products and Windows!
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@jiyong
Quote:

I think a lot of companies use a method from Gartner to determine TCO.

Off Topic:

I would look at analysis from Gartner concerning MS or Windows with care. I read somewhere that Bill Gates wife is member of the board of CEO at Gartner or she own's most shares!

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@mbilla

Quote:

There's no need to be afraid of Linux,

I completely agree with and know your points. But the Average Joe users that I've run into when given a system that isn't MS have a problem. The Average Joe User is the Office worker who doesn't experiment with systems. Amiga and alternative platform users are typically, IMHO, a step above because they are willing to step up to the plate to at least try something.

I agree with your point that people are training to be MS-users not computer literate.

@all

Apparently AT&T are verifying until 2005/2006 if they should switch their 70 000 PCs from Windows to Linux or MAC OS X!

At the moment AT&T is still using Windows but testing with the other 2 OS is being done.
AT&T concerns are about security and costs!!!
It could be that they want to force MS to do something about Windows!!

It's here (German only)

English verion can be found here @http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2004Oct/gee20041007027295.htm

Last edited by mbilla on 09-Oct-2004 at 12:22 PM.

_________________
A computerworld without MS products and Windows!
Connect your Amigas ...
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Quote:

by mbilla on 6-Oct-2004 13:24:26 @AmigaMac Quote: Linux is 200% cheaper than Windows XP Home and 300% cheaper than Windows XP Pro. LOL

That's a significant cost difference! Linux can be quite economical as an alternative to Microsoft operating systems. Great observation, AmigaMac! LOL indeed.