Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
6035 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
24 crawler(s) on-line.
 21 guest(s) on-line.
 0 member(s) on-line.



You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 GadgetMaster:  5 mins ago
 Karlos:  40 mins ago
 klx300r:  51 mins ago
 amigang:  52 mins ago
 amisteph:  1 hr 30 mins ago
 kolla:  1 hr 31 mins ago
 cdimauro:  1 hr 41 mins ago
 number6:  2 hrs 4 mins ago
 Seiya:  2 hrs 36 mins ago
 agami:  2 hrs 57 mins ago

hardware OS4   hardware OS4 : 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
   posted by Mikey_C on 6-Jun-2005 10:33:06 (67898 reads)
Amigaworld is pleased to announce that the 20 Answers to the 20 Questions as asked by our members are now available to Read...

(Warning Not for the faint hearted)


Before answering these questions I think it is worth having a quick resume about how we all arrived at this point.

At the WoA show in Kensington, London in July 1999 Jim Collas announced a wonderful revival for the Amiga in which existing platform supporters, such as us, were meant to become very closely involved. Less than a month later he was sacked, and by the following New Year the Amiga IP had once again changed hands. In the summer of 2000 Bill & Fleecy with still some vestige of their original venture capital left, were focussing on their DE vision. That left the existing dealers such as us with no 'real' Amiga product to sell in the foreseeable future, and therefore the need to explore other, non-Amiga, avenues.

The following September Fleecy visited me and asked if we would consider project managing and funding the development/manufacture of a new PPC-based Amiga. Amiga Inc themselves were to develop - or fund the development of - a port of Amiga OS 3.9 to run on this new platform. This really was not our type of business, but as nobody else was prepared to do anything I (probably foolishly in retrospect) took up the challenge in order to prevent the Amiga as we know it from fizzling out. We spent money with Escena to produce an A1200/PPC hybrid but that in the end proved technically too complex for Escena to implement. We subsequently came to a licencing arrangement with MAI logic to use a board design that they had commissioned as an Articia development system as the basis of the new AmigaOne platform. We hold all the schematics and build files and (obviously) the licence to continue to build existing A1 products using the board manufacturer of our choice.

Amiga Inc ran out of money and so couldn't fund OS4. Ben, Fleecy and I brokered a deal whereby Hyperion ported OS4 at no charge to Amiga Inc and, in return, Hyperion would keep the subsequent sales revenues for OS4 on the AmigaOne platform. In the end this turned out to be a much, much bigger task than Hyperion had reckoned on, and several times the project came very close to folding. We had to step in on more than one occasion to keep it afloat. Please make no mistake, without Eyetech putting its money on the line there would not just have been no AmigaOne, there would have been no OS4 either.

The fact that new hardware was delivered, together with a functional version of OS4 is against all odds. And the fact that Hyperion and we ever decided to make it happen defies all commercial logic. What has been delivered is not perfect, but is absolutely remarkable given the pitifully small potential market to support the product. This is a product by enthusiasts for enthusiasts, not some mass volume high street product. It was conceived for delivery in the forgiving optimism of the Amiga community that was the defacto mood around the new millennium, and before the blue/red troll wars poisoned all genuine initiatives on both sides.

The bottom line is that we got very low volume, new (and therefore defacto not mass tested) PPC hardware into peoples hands when nobody else would do anything. We did that on the basis that we would keep the costs as low as possible for those early adopters who were prepared to share some of the risk. The alternative would have been to price the boards to cover that risk (in consumer terms) making the boards at least three times as expensive to end users. (And prices must be based on manufacturing costs for these small volumes, and not the sales prices of bare, mass-produced PC boards). More realistically this would almost certainly have represented a level of risk too far, with the result that there would have been no AmigaOnes and no OS4. After all anyone could have bought essentially the same product (without UBoot or OS4, but with full support) direct from from MAI Logic for $3900.

In fact as it stands today it would have been far cheaper for us to have given all current board owners $500 each not to buy a board and walked away from the whole Amiga scene in early 2001. We didn't - we stuck with it. In this context you can understand it is hard to feel anything but frustration when the forums are full of armchair lawyers, designers, hardware experts and business analysts who all claim to be able to do better but seem curiously reluctant to take the same risks, exposure and initiative that we have.

So in the light of this I have attempted, as always, to answer the questions as honestly as I can as of the time of writing. Also as always, things may arise in the future which are not known now, just as we now have more knowledge now than we did 2 or 3 years ago. Please note however that I am not interested in playing retrospective word games with professional point scorers and will limit my responses accordingly.

Alan Redhouse, Eyetech




1: Paulsamiga What is the current situation regarding the A1-XE & SE fixes and warranty?

There are no 'officially sanctioned' XE UDMA repairs. There is no layout issue with the motherboard as far as the IDE stuff is concerned. IDE UDMA works fine unless the ethernet driver is started. This is either a driver or (more likely IMO) a VIA initialisation issue. All the 'fix' does is to use a hardware trick to give the VIA higher bus priority which, by chance, was found to stop it putting out illegal data on the PCI bus (causing the DMA to hang) when the ethernet is in operation. It may yet turn out to have side effects and is NOT a solution recommended by us.

The XE usb is missing 15k pull down resistors on the data and clock lines due to a misinterpretation of the VIA documents by the board designer. However it works fine unless you are continuously plugging and unplugging usb devices. If you use a ~3 minihub (or a bay mounted cardreader etc) for those devices you wish to hotswap then that fixes the problem and is cheaper than any other solution, including postage.
Warranty on all products shipped by us is 12 months in the end-user's hands or 15 months from us shipping to the dealer, whichever is the shorter. This excludes damage caused by any kind of fiddling about by the end user (eg overclocking or cpu voltage experiments) and all forms of consequential loss.
We offered generous trade-in terms on the SE boards up to 12 months from purchase, as we had a commercial outlet for the traded-in boards at that time. That opportunity is now long passed, and any purchasers who did not take up this offer will have to live with their (non) decision I'm afraid.
There are no known additional USB faults on the SE boards (over that of the XE boards) and as these have been obsolete since the XE's came out we have no boards, expertise (or budget) to look into this further


2: MetalJoe: There are some concerns from a few people in the community about the chances for new companies wishing to licence hardware for AmigaOS 4. Amiga Inc have stated that any such licence approvals will be made in consultation with their partners (i.e. yourself and Hyperion), so as not to interfere with their business plans. Can you assure people that Eyetech will not hold a monopoly and will welcome other hardware solutions?

It is such a tiny market and the costs of entry are so high that no commercial concern in its right mind would get involved. Without a 'monopoly' this tiny market would be even more fragmented, making for even smaller production volumes and much higher prices.

Part of the deal that Hyperion and we struck with (the Bill and Fleecy) Amiga Inc was that there would be exclusivity on the use of the AmigaOne name for us, and of the Amiga OS4 brand for Hyperion's OS development. This was in order to protect our respective large investments in the A1/OS4 project from sudden changes of mind by Amiga Inc. In particular, as Amiga Inc were desparately short of cash at that time, both Ben and I were concerned that financial pressures may force Amiga Inc to unilaterally decide, for example, to allow MorphOS to be rebranded as OS4 even though much earlier negotiations between Amiga Inc and MorphOS had apparently irretrievably broken down. These safeguards were therefore embedded in our respective agreements, as is normal, sensible business practice.

This exclusivity is in itself no big deal. Competition only has any significant effect on prices when the market is large and unrestricted and volumes reaches mass-production (500,000+ per year) proportions. Selling at a loss to try to gain market share in a tiny, finite market is obviously unsustainable for any company that tries it (there have been examples) and is not actually in the long term interests of end users either.


3: Jahc: What details can you give us on upcoming CPU upgrade modules? Speed, price, estimated date of availability, etc..

These are being developed by third parties and are dependant largely on the price/volume of cpu's and MegArray parts. The general feeling is that the cpu prices on offer are too high to allow the developers to sell the minimum order quantities of cpu's, largely because of the current demand being generated by the Mac Mini. We expect the prices of low power consumption G4 cpus to fall later this year which will hopefully make this a viable option for those third parties.

4: Toaks: we need more developers , why not consider a renting service for AmigaOne's to potential developers?

That is something that would have to be done locally (by dealers or enterprising individuals - perhaps yourself?) to fall within specific countries credit regulations, and also to stand a reasonable chance of actually receiving monthly payments and the return of the boards at the end of the rental period.

5: Hondo_DK: Has something been planned for the release of OS4?, special cabinets, marketing, new boards, etc??

No, this would be down to individual dealers.

6: Chunder: Are the previously planned versions of the AmigaOne (e.g. A1-I, A1-XC, etc.) still going to happen? Have the specifications changed; have the boards been prototyped fully yet? Is there a scheduled production run yet (not necessarily the date, just a
yes/no)?


No new board designs will be made (by us at any rate) specifically for the 'Amiga Enthusiast' market. It just simply is not viable given the tiny potential sales.

Both the A1-I and A1-XC have been designed and the A1-I has been prototyped. The final specification for both boards (and other designs/variations) will inevitably be modified before they go into production, if and when this happens. Boards will only go into production when we have volume orders for them from industry.


7: RWO: If/When the AmigaOne XC become a reality will there be a trade-in/exchange for SE/XE motherboards at a lower price (with/without cpu module) ?

No, not from us although individual dealers may devise such schemes. It would not be cost effective to produce/sell incomplete boards or re-test traded in boards or modules.

8: Swoop: Is there a PPC set top box planned based on AmigaOS4 ?

Not by us

9: Gnarly: What (if anything) are you doing about the problems running Linux to its full potential on the AmigaOne boards?

Nothing - that is not a general purpose market that we are addressing. Others can address it if they wish using A1 hardware, but it is difficult to see how a PPC-based general purpose computer can be cost effective against a mass produced and better supported x86 based product. For the 'embedded' (ie limited-range functionality) applications we will use the most cost effective software/firmware solutions for the job in hand (which obviously takes development status and licence fees as well as OS characteristics into account).

10: MetalJoe: What are your plans for the server market? Will you be assisting with LinuxPPC (or even BSD) support for the AmigaOnes?

We have no plans to address this market yet (see linux comments above) and therefore no plans to devote resources to it.

11: Eric_S: If a good business opportunity regarding (selling) non Mai hardware presented itself, would you act on it? Or are you tied in (directly or indirectly) your current business dealing with Mai in such a way that you can only deal/sell their hardware?

Any significant business opportunities for which we have a good prima facie chance of success (ie making an adequate financial return) will be evaluated (as always). The current 'Amiga Enthusiast' ppc board market is not such an opportunity in itself, either with the MAI or alternative northbridge components. However if you have a fully costed, realistic alternative business proposal to put to us then please do so.

BTW MAI do not make hardware (or chips for that matter) - they are a fabless chip design and marketing company.


12: Wegster: RAM seems to be causing issues for many users, going back to both the SE and XE boards, in some cases, RAM purchased from Eyetech even being incompatible. While it may be unreasonable to expect an exchange for older purchases, it remains a problem with the uA1-Cs with their 256MB of RAM and single socket limitation, as many users want to run at least 512MB of RAM to dual boot AOS and Linux. Are there plans to either offer 512MB as a standard configuration so users don't 'throw out' the 256MB they are currently forced to purchase with the uA1-C, or any plans to produce compatible 'guaranteed' RAM at a more reasonable cost?

The only instances that I am aware of where RAM from us was incompatible with the XE/SE boards is in the handful of cases where we ordered Kingston RAM with Infineon chips and were shipped DIMMs with Toshiba chips. A few got sent out before we realised - we contacted those affected and asked for them to be returned at our expense to be replaced by the correct ones. Most did, a few didn't so there may still be the odd incompatible stick out there.

For the A1 we specified that the boards were to be tested with compatible RAM before shipping to us. We specified 256MB because 512MB would have pushed the price up quite a bit and was on a long leadtime (so there would have been no A1's for Christmas).

We will look at the cost and availability of 512MB - and its effect on the end user pricing - for subsequent production runs - but no promises. Whatever the outcome all boards in a manufacturing run will have the same type/size of SODIMM.


13: Wegster: Alan, you've been fairly quiet in the community lately for some time now, while many try to ascertain the state of their warrantees for fixes of their XEs, as well as owners of the older SEs. Some feel particularly betrayed as XEs were marketed as 'consumer grade,' and the lack of public attention to this has left many users cold. Does Eyetech have any intention of honouring their warrantees, and/or provide a solution for SE owners of any kind? Can you clarify this situation for once and for all?

All these points have been dealt with elsewhere in these 20 questions

14: Argo: There have been discussions on various websites about users rather bad experiences with current dealers in regards to boards in stock, shipping, and service. Even Mr. Hare mentioned difficulty in purchasing an AmigaOne. What is Eyetech doing or planning to do to improve dealer issues?

The dealers are doing their best in the face of the tiny volumes and small overall returns they can get from the 'Amiga Enthusiast' market. Many of them are keeping going because of their love of the platform rather than for any business rationale. All have other revenue streams which dwarf their returns from the Amiga market (or they have day jobs as well) - they must have in order to eat!

Eventually dealers will polarise themselves into those addressing industrial markets and those serving the residual 'Amiga Enthusiast' market

Due to bad experiences with shipping boards to some dealers on credit terms last year we now do not send out any boards without payment clearance before shipping. In every case I have seen (which is not many) where a customer reports that a dealer has told them that they are waiting for us to ship boards, it is because we are waiting for that dealer to pay us.

On the specific issue of Amiga Inc - they asked us to save two boards for a specific dealer to build up into systems for them. We did, but the dealer never sent us the money for the boards, so we never sent the boards to him. I do not know, or wish to know, the particular arrangements that Amiga Inc entered into with the dealer concerned, whether he managed to buy boards from another dealer or even if Amiga Inc bought their systems elsewhere.


15: Zorro: The GX cpu that Eyetech fitted on almost all the A1 are causing some random issues to the users and, mostly important, to Hyperion and other developers (Ibrowse). If this will take to a hardware fault, do you plan to replace/fix those cpu modules? (this is an end-user board)

These issues are I believe down to software/firmware not being set up correctly to take account of the different cache sizes between the Fx and Gx cpus. In the cases brought to our attention it has been resolved by a UBoot update.

16: RedMelons: Up until Summer 2003, Total Amiga magazine contained the always informative 'Alan Redhouse Column', and full page advertisements for the AmigaOne. Do you intend to re-commence advertising/publicity for the AmigaOne, and hopefully also your column in Total Amiga?

No, for two reasons. Firstly our original support (adverts, my column, our promotion of individual copies and subscriptions to our own customer base) was to help get Total Amiga off the ground to the point that the subscription levels made it a more-or-less a financially viable entity. I believe that this has been achieved.

Secondly the 'Amiga Enthusiast' market does not generate sufficient profit for us to be able to indulge ourselves (in reality myself - all our former 'Amiga' staff and most of me are off doing proper revenue-earning things unconnected with the Amiga Enthusiast market) in non-essential time consuming activities. Even these 20 answers are being typed on my laptop on holiday!

In reality - because I really like the Amiga platform - I personally spend far more time on 'Amiga Enthusiast' activities than can possibly be justified from a business point of view. But we all have to make a living by doing other things (and this includes the dealers) and fit in Amiga stuff when we can.


17: Ktadd: If a large China, or other large, deal doesn't come through, is the current demand for Amiga One boards enough to support continued manufacturing and investment?

No - there never was (or will be) enough demand alone from the 'Amiga Enthusiast' market to support manufacturing and investment, either in the past or in the future. The availability of updated A1 products for the 'Amiga Enthusiast' are entirely determined by our success (or otherwise) in promoting A1/OS4 based solutions into external commercial markets. That is why we have been spending our time working hard for success in these markets, rather than with the day to day goings on in the 'Amiga Enthusiast' market as typified by the AW membership. I cannot overstress the point that it is only success in these commercial markets that will bring more advanced, lower cost A1/OS4 type products to the Amiga Enthusiast market - and not vice versa.

I have to say that the negative comments about the boards (and Eyetech) posted on AW and elsewhere do not help instil confidence in potential commercial purchasers, even though those comments do not directly relate to the specifications required by those potential customers. In other words the more vociferous the criticism the less likely you are to see new products.


18: Dauber: I have the microA1-C, which is said to be able to handle up to 2 gigabytes of RAM. How is that possible with only one SODIMM slot and with no SODIMMs bigger than 512 megs available?

Clearly the board can support SODIMM sizes up to 2GB if they are/become available. The single SODIMM slot was not a secret suddenly sneaked in to the specification after you bought your board!

19: Billt: How does one apply to become an official and/or approved rework facility for AmigaOne motherboard modifications?

There is no officially approved rework for the AmigaOne - see above.

For people with a provable reputation that they know what they are doing, and who are prepared to accept all the consequences of screwing it up then we can release the USB/UDMA 'fix' information on receipt of a signed NDA/disclaimer.


20: Mikey_C: Where do you see the Amiga platform in the short to medium term and do you hope Eyetech will still be involved?

Into industries/applications where the OS itself is not important, but where there is a major drop in cost of ownership by employing ppc and/or OS4 technology, however invisible to the end user.

We will continue to support the Amiga Enthusiast community provided it continues to be fun and, overall, pays its direct costs. I'm afraid I don't do things that aren't fun any more, other than for relatively short periods of time - life's just too short!


What did you think of this Q&A? vote in our Poll available on main page
    

STORYID: 2339
Related Links
· More about hardware OS4
· News by Mikey_C


Most read story about hardware OS4
20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech

Last news about hardware OS4
Fifteen years of Sam440ep
Printer Friendly Page  Send this Story to a Friend

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 )

PosterThread
Comi 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:23:34
#181 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jul-2003
Posts: 653
From: Zlatibor, Serbia

@Coder
I hope we will se soon all from all(Elbox,ACK,Bpaln, AHT) even a licence things....


_________________
F1 Srbija

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ssolie 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:25:09
#182 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2755
From: Alberta, Canada

Well, nothing much is new in these answers from what I can see. No big surprises.

However, I'm very disappointed we haven't heard about any significant non-"Amiga Enthusiast" market opportunities to date. Developments in other markets are required to keep my AmigaOS desktop hobby alive and I have known this since I first purchased my A1-XE from the first batch. We must see AmigaOS sales to non-Amiga people to make it worthwhile to keep investing in 4.1 and beyond. On the plus side, Alan and friends are still concentrating their efforts outside this 'market' which is great to see. Keep pushing guys!

I'm also curious as to why Alan insists the XE fix for the UDMA/Ethernet issue is not a real fix. After chatting with those who helped diagnose and develop the fix, I find this rather difficult to believe this is some kind of pure software issue. Perhaps Alan should check his technical sources again. We can't continue to blame the VIA initialization problems for everything.

Big thanks to Eyetech for helping make it possible to compile modern C++ code on my AmigaOne box and run it on my pre-release copy of AmigaOS. I know it was a team effort and I know it doesn't make business sense. Kudos for supporting my hobby!

Let's hope more players with more passion than business sense step forward to push the limits of what AmigaOS based systems can do. Back to codin'


_________________
ExecSG Team Lead

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
falemagn 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:25:23
#183 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Nov-2003
Posts: 1126
From: Italy

Quote:

The economics make us expand into the embedded market (i.e. the rational part), while the emotion keep us supporting the desktop market. I personally think this is possible, therfore, it's still economic as a whole.


That's a reasonable standpoint, after all isn't everyone's wish to work on something you enjoy working on?

However, that wish collides with what Alan said and his prospects for future AONE's productions. By Alan's reasoning - and by merely looking at the reality of facts - the desktop market for AOS4 is saturated. It will take amazing hardware and unrivaled sw features to make AOS4 a viable desktop alternative. You'll otherwise be stuck in this tiny and potentially shrinking market. Is that a view we both share?


_________________
It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

~~ Henry Ford

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Coder 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:27:26
#184 ]
Team Member
Joined: 15-May-2003
Posts: 4523
From: The Netherlands

@Comi

Indeed.

Coder


_________________
Can't get enough of me?
The Bucket Diary Blog
The Bucket Diary Twitter Account

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Zylesea 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:29:48
#185 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2222
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@ Mikey_C


It's not bplan's fault that AInc require a license, bplan does *not* need the sales driven by OS4. But OS4 needs a proper hardware. Quite easy.

More easy even, since Alan holds a license already. He can sell Pegasi (with dongle) as A1s. As said Alan gets fair conditions from Genesi. All would benefit:
- Alan keeps the only A1 distributor
- OS4 has a new hardware base
- BPlan has some additional sales

The only ones not benefiting from this plan are MAI, but well...


_________________
My programs: www.via-altera.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Anonymous 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:32:41
# ]



Take the Genesi/Amiga Inc license discussion into the forum threads please.

Dave.

 
     Report this post  
-Sam- 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:33:03
#187 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 3026
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

@Zylesea

You make it all sound so simple!


_________________
Sam

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
GrumpyOldMan 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:33:33
#188 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Nov-2003
Posts: 675
From: Haukipudas, Finland

@falemagn

Quote:

But I shiver at the thought of a business lead by emotional principles rather than plain economics.


Come next Christmas, Ebenezer, it looks like somebody is going be haunted by the Three Spirits...


_________________
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." (Groucho Marx)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Mikey_C 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:35:52
#189 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 3060
From: Unknown

@Zylesea

Well, if BPlan do not need the sales to push the boards further, why are we discussing this? They should carry on as is and we'll continue as we are.

Thanks anyhow.

Mikey C


_________________
No cause is lost if there is but one fool left to fight for it.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Anonymous 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:36:32
# ]



@Mikey_C

Absolutely the last post on that particular thread, thanks.

 
     Report this post  
EntilZha 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:37:56
#191 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 27-Aug-2003
Posts: 1679
From: The Jedi Academy, Yavin 4

Quote:
That's a reasonable standpoint, after all isn't everyone's wish to work on something you enjoy working on?


Exactly

Quote:
Is that a view we both share?


Partially.

The market isn't saturated yet. A lot of people are still holing back on buying an AmigaOne until OS4 final is released (we see that in a lot of polls and stuff). Besides, I see a lot of people complaining about unavailability of machines, so the market isn't saturated yet.

Regarding amazing hardware and unrivaled software features: This is something I don't go along with. For example, you can still be a viable alternative by offering something simple to use. That is one of the strengths of the games consoles: You just plug it in and it works. When OS4 was first revied on Ars Technica, they underlined the fact that it installed all by itself as one of the major points.
So potentially, you could sell a A1 with OS4, a good browser and an office program to people who want to use a computer for internet and office stuff (i.e. non-geeks). Ok, the availability of a good browser and office suite is another point, but I hope you get the idea

Last edited by EntilZha on 06-Jun-2005 at 04:47 PM.


_________________
Thomas, the kernel guy

"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Anonymous 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:48:17
# ]



On that subject, the last poll we ran on market saturation showed this:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=57

 
     Report this post  
Rassilon 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:49:07
#193 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 540
From: Office desk, Wandsworth, London, UK

I must say having digested Alan's replies and those made by people in reply, I am feeling somewhat depressed - the computing platform which I have promoted for years look to be teetering on the edge of a precipice - leaving me with thoughts 'shudder' of moving platform - something I have never entertained before.

What gets me down is the thought of how close we are, but how far we have to go.

As an example I have USB on my SE, but I cannot access my mobile phone (as a MSD) due to a software / hardware problem.

The same with audio - my other hobby - I use AudioEvolution 4 on my A1, and it apparently suffers from a known SE hardware bug.

I want to be able to continue being an Amiga user, I just need someone to show me that there is a light at the end of the tunnel!

Lewis


_________________
If you don't know what you need to know by the time you need to know it then its not worth knowing

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ikir 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:49:28
#194 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2002
Posts: 5647
From: Italy

Wiffy - I requested that was the last post we have here in the news comments section on the BPlan/AmigaOS license issue, thanks

Last edited by Wiffy on 06-Jun-2005 at 04:52 PM.


_________________
ikir

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Coder 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:58:45
#195 ]
Team Member
Joined: 15-May-2003
Posts: 4523
From: The Netherlands

@Rassilon

Quote:
The same with audio - my other hobby - I use AudioEvolution 4 on my A1, and it apparently suffers from a known SE hardware bug.


You had contact about this with Davy?

Coder


_________________
Can't get enough of me?
The Bucket Diary Blog
The Bucket Diary Twitter Account

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Anonymous 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:58:47
# ]



Quote:
The market isn't saturated yet. A lot of people are still holing back on buying an AmigaOne until OS4 final is released (we see that in a lot of polls and stuff). Besides, I see a lot of people complaining about unavailability of machines, so the market isn't saturated yet.


Yes, I'm one of them, though if people were more forthcoming about the status of their OS's, I might have bought one by now

Confidence is what people lack (See my post on the frontpage poll for more).

 
     Report this post  
-Sam- 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:59:12
#197 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 3026
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

@Rassilon

Quote:
look to be teetering on the edge of a precipice -


Which IMHO has been the case since 1994 and the death of CBM. You shouldn't be too surprised about all of this. All that Alan has done is confirm what the majority, sensibly, believed anyway.

It's not 'all over' as Hyperion still seem happy which is the only thing giving me confidence in a future for the Amiga.

Quote:
I want to be able to continue being an Amiga user, I just need someone to show me that there is a light at the end of the tunnel!


Hyperion haven't given up hope so there is no reason why anyone else should either. There si still a market for OS4.


_________________
Sam

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rudei 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 16:59:32
#198 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2002
Posts: 3589
From: Dallas, Texas

Quote:
Thanks Alan. I would just like to say I am very happy with my AmigaOne-XE, and appreciate the amount of time, money and effort you (and Hyperion, from the OS side of things) have put into making it happen.


I echo that in its entirety.
My AmigaOne is a great machine that was an excellent purchase.


_________________
2017 Camaro 2SS

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rassilon 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 17:00:40
#199 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 540
From: Office desk, Wandsworth, London, UK

@Coder

yeah I have spoken to Davy about it, and its an SE bug of some sort :o(

Lewis


_________________
If you don't know what you need to know by the time you need to know it then its not worth knowing

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hondo 
Re: 20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech
Posted on 6-Jun-2005 17:09:07
#200 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1370
From: Denmark

Saying the "Amiga Entusiast" market is too small to make a decent profit, is a bit of a guess I think. If we look at some numbers here...

Amigaworld has 3464 members. This means users who has actually signed up as diehard amigafreaks! - Probably all of them would buy a new Amiga if the prize was right and Amiga OS 4.0 was finished.

And most certainly you can be sure that another 3464 "closet" diehard guests comes by amigaworld on a daily basis. Thats 6.928 seriously potential buyers out there right now!!

Then think about all the potential buyers that'll appear when OS4 is released, and written about in every decent computermagazine/website on the whole darn planet. Then you can add probably another 10-15.000 potential buyers within the first year. Thats about 17-22.000 users within the very FIRST YEAR of the Amiga Rebirth.

I truely belive that's a realistic number for the first year.....and that's even without proper marketing efforts. It's only the number taken from IT interested people, who comes on IT sites, and follows the computing development.

Then there's all the possible buyers who never reads these sites. If we count them in you can probably add 10-20.000 users more, which makes us end up with an astonishing 40-50.000 potential buyers!! - and that's only the first year!!!!!

So I truely belive that Alan is wrong about the potential market, but can understand why he needs the embedded market to secure his company. This is also good for the Amiga, but we could absolutely do without it for now.....and maybe hit that market later. Eyetech probably knows that going the pure Amiga way could be done, but just don't have the cash/courage to do it. He also had to fight with Amiga Inc's many problems, and the great delay of OS4 which in the end must have been very tough on the Eyetech economy.

Saying the desktop market is dead is absolutely hillarius....theres 4 billion people using desktop machines, with desktop OS's every day on this planet. To think that the Amiga couldn't get 50-100.000, is in my oppinion utter nonsense.

The Amiga's history and OS is still too strong.....and also it's "Amiga Entusiasts"

And the world right now uses desktop systems everywhere.

So come on Eyetech.......don't give up on us.......we've been fighting for 11 years since that dreadfull day in 1994.

Look at the numbers above.......it could be done!!


_________________
On Planet Boing Trevor is God

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle