@falcon1

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KHTML core is a library, but it will stay as it is and won't become an Amigalike shared library.

It might very well have to.

If it's built as a static library (libtool type library archive), it will be statically linked into an executable. If the source is not released for the executable that links it in statically, that is a clear violation of the LGPL.

If it's built as a shared library, the LGPL states that whatever links to it does not have to be GPL/LGPL licensed, and thus can be closed source if it wants.

The purpose is to protect the author. It would suck if you wrote something, then someone writes an interface that makes it look like they did all the work for it just by linking to your library. The LGPL ensures that if you are going to do this sort of thing, you have to package the library separately and give appropriate credit in the authors and retain the LGPL license. Then your frontend to it can have whatever credit and license it wants.

@nine
What I meant is that if LPGL can live hapilly ever after with BSD as it is trough Nokia release, it can live happily ever after trough Marcik, because it uses the same form of license (lgpl+bsd), not an inch more not an inch less, if anyone think that it is wrong they might suit Nokia as it was them using this form of license...
as if...

BTW... obviously the lgpl part will be released..

Last edited by pixie on 15-Aug-2006 at 02:49 PM.

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I hope he releases an OS4/AROS/OS3 port once the MorphOS one is completed. At least an AmigaOS3.x port (as he can test it on his MOS machine and it could run on most of amiga-like systems). Or at least he could send the sources to Chain-Q or any other friend with a microA1 so he makes an OS4 binary (if he is willing to do it, of course)

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Quote:

The purpose is to protect the author. It would suck if you wrote something, then someone writes an interface that makes it look like they did all the work for it just by linking to your library. The LGPL ensures that if you are going to do this sort of thing, you have to package the library separately and give appropriate credit in the authors and retain the LGPL license. Then your frontend to it can have whatever credit and license it wants.

|Use the original if it suits you more... as long as it is stated where it come from...

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The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

Quote:

Plus OS4 users was also asked to donate money to him and some have done...

Or give him a free PV or A1 to develop on perhaps?

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if the man wants to port for morphos for a beginning (or only) I think it's his good right. And if he wants to make some money with the parts he did himself and can do that in a legal way. Why not ? Everybody has to do something to have food on the table.

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Öhm, sorry guys, but LGPL won't spread as soon as it is linked, otherwise pretty much all SW written in the past 20 years would fall under LGPL

Actually thats the main difference between LGPL and GPL.

He has to hand out sources for the KHTML-core, including all changes, but surely not for anything.

And also, Marcik neverever asked anybody not interested in the MorphOS-version to donate, the rules were quite clear from the start, and if you fell for individuals promising stuff they had no influence in (shall I ad again and again and again), then thats only your fault.

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People are always so generous with others people work...

Well said pixie

Seriously, what a load of b*llsh*t!!!
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BTW Marcik now act the same way Stefan Burstrom acts some years ago... in a protectionist way to not let "the other camp" get important software... (MOS Team proposed SB to port IBrowse to PPC quickly in exchange of a native MOS version, SB refused, now IBrowse PPC is still not out and there's few chance for OS4 users to get a browser based on marcik work in the near future)

Please explain to me where I 'in a protectionist way' did not let the 'other camp' have my sources???

The MOS team did approach me and said that they could port IB to MOS. Considering the war between ceratin OS4 people and MOS people I did not really like the idea of giving the sources for 10 years of my work to a team that I have no control over. Period!
IBrowse is MY work and I decide what to do with it. If I like to keep my ip to myself accept that!
If someone thought they could 'port IBrowse to PPC quickly' then they are in for a surprise. Sorry about that. But if someone could have done this quickly it would have been me and it never happened.

Dude you owe me an appology!
/Stefan

I had a feeling this scenario would arise, thus I never donated.
His philosophy from the start was, I'll port it to MOS, then it's up to whoever to port it to for example
AWeb. He did say he was aiming at producing a MUI plugin though, that could be used easilly by people. That would have been a cool approach.

However...

This is just sad, If I had ported KHTML and written the needed parts I'd make damn sure every AmigaOSish flavour would benefit. We are a too small community to split up like this.

Let's work for a better future, united. Damn.

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People are always so generous with others people work...

I'd agree except for the fact that this person's entire project would not have even gotten off the ground were it not for others' work that was made free and open for him to base his work on. This is just my opinion, but I find these protectionist attitudes on work that has for all intents and purposes been based in great part on the blood and sweat of others which has been made free and open to others, just a tad hypocrytical. I know it's permitted and done by many private individuals and commercial interests every day, but I don't agree with it personally.

Last edited by elatour on 15-Aug-2006 at 04:20 PM.
Last edited by elatour on 15-Aug-2006 at 04:19 PM.

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@Stefan

Quote:

The MOS team did approach me and said that they could port IB to MOS. Considering the war between ceratin OS4 people and MOS people I did not really like the idea of giving the sources for 10 years of my work to a team that I have no control over. Period! IBrowse is MY work and I decide what to do with it. If I like to keep my ip to myself accept that! If someone thought they could 'port IBrowse to PPC quickly' then they are in for a surprise. Sorry about that. But if someone could have done this quickly it would have been me and it never happened.

agree

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Dude you owe me an appology!

more than one IMHO!

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People, stop making fools of yourselves. The free parts will be free. What doesn't have to be free will not. If there are any breaches in LGPL contact the right people and solve it. All this ranting will do you no good. Besides, some of you *REALLY* needs to read the licenses before making comments in a thread like this.

Regards,
Joachim Birging

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Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

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And IIRC it was some OS4 people who said to add money to the bounty, not MOS ones...

Some people added money because of what Marcik said he would do: That is hand over the code to the AWeb people and let them do the OS3/4 port.

Since people donated on that premise I'd say it's hardly a respectable thing to do a 180 afterwards, but hey, maybe I'm just old-fashioned and respect people who stick to their word.

@pixie
Remember this from May 26/27?
Quote:

Quote: Sorry but my money will go to the project that actually does the OS4 port. Heck, I'll even help if need be. But I'm not going to put my money down on some vague promise of a potential port hopefully maybe. Whatever...

I hope you see now why I didn't put any money down when you guys were promoting the bounty to us OS4 users and beyond.

Lesson to anyone donating to bounties: Never believe any promises beyond what the bounty specifically states. You may just get only what you paid for. Doesn't matter if the bounty is for AROS, MorphOS or otherwise.

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I had a feeling this scenario would arise, thus I never donated.

Yeah, same thing here. I would have donated either to the bounty or directly to him the second it had been handed over to Amiga OS-people, but since I had no idea of his track record I decided to hold back till then. Seems it was a wise move. Still feel sorry for the people who did an act of good faith and donated though.

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The purpose is to protect the author.

Actually, the purpose is to protect the user. The user, according to the FSF, needs to be in a position where he/she can benefit from improvements to the LGPL'ed aspects of a program. Like, hypothetical example, we have an LGPL'ed MPEG decoder library, and someone goes and writes a Altivec-enabled version.

If software uses the shared library, you simply upgrade the shared library, and voila, the software now uses the newer version. Everything is cool.
If software is statically linked, then the version of the library is fixed at compile time. There is no way for the user to reap the benefits of the new version. BAD!

I don't have the LGPL handy right now, but I recall that when I first looked at it (long time ago, when the "L" still stood for "Library"), there was an option of distributing statically linked stuff, as long as you also distributed the pre-linking object files (thus allowing the user to relink against a new static version of the library). Given the stated purpose, this would seem like it would still be in there.

@elatour

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I'd agree except for the fact that this person's entire project would not have even gotten off the ground were it not for others' work that was made free and open for him to base his work on.

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I know it's permitted and done by many private individuals and commercial interests every day, but I don't agree with it personally.

This is precisely my point.

I'll try to avoid making silly analogies, but a whole bunch of people have gone to the effort of making all of their HTML rendering technologies free for everyone to benefit from. Why hoard the source to a frontend to yourself?

@nine
Quote:

I'll try to avoid making silly analogies, but a whole bunch of people have gone to the effort of making all of their HTML rendering technologies free for everyone to benefit from. Why hoard the source to a frontend to yourself?

What Marcik has done is a lot more than just a front-end. If it was, then anyone would be able download the KHTML sources and add an Amiga "front end" on in no time, and nobody would be whinging on and we'd have loads of KHTML ports by now. The MorphOS/MUI layer (or whatever you call it) that he's written is a big chunk of work and Marcik has added a lot of value - not just simply recompiled someone else's work as some people have implied.

If Marcik has decided that all the work he's spent a year on this layer is too valuable to him to give away for free, then I say that's fair enough, provided he complies with the license (after all - a big chunk of it is still someone else's work), which it looks like he is if the KHTML part (not the MOS/MUI layer) is made a shared library.

As for KHTML for OS3/OS4/AROS, all it means is that there's a new, effectively closed source, browser for an Amiga-like system, so the probability of it appearing on the others is high (and much higher than it was before Marcik's efforts) - it just means that Marcik will be control how and who does it.

Of course, it's all a moot point when the heavyweight that is Paihia appears (already better CSS & DOM support than KHTML). - homegrown software tastes better too

@smithy

Come come now.. shorter posts - more coding ;)
In other words: keep up the good work.