Leaving all other questions concerning OS5 aside, from my perspective involvement of the Frieden brothers in the OS5 project would provide one of the best opportunities to assure continuity and possibly backward compatibility between OS4 and OS5.

I'm glad that the brothers are willing to consider working on OS5, considering they've been used as a punching bag by parts of the community they serve. That not only takes guts, it's also a great display of their dedication.

I suspect OS5 is currently an OS3 or early OS4 kernel, with new libraries.. remember vega? the graphics.library replacement? Stuff like that I'd imagine.

Why do a new kernel from scratch when OS4 is still in development, and they're going to get that back in the future?

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I suspect OS5 is currently an OS3 or early OS4 kernel, with new libraries.. remember vega? the graphics.library replacement? Stuff like that I'd imagine.

From the Bill McEwen interview:
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We have designed OS 5 so that we can get portions of the working product in the hands of the SDA developers so that we can expedite the creation of content and services for this new platform.

Sounds like Bill McEwen is saying the same thing. SDA developers currently work on intent-based content.
I'm guessing they are currently building services and libraries that work on both intent and the new OS so they can migrate the content and the developers from intent to OS5 more easily.
Like I said: Just guessing.

@ohno
That actually makes a lot of sense.

@The Friedens
Thanks for taking the time to participate in this Q&A.

Chris

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From the log, I can see that the Friedens are not consistent with their "roles":
Sometimes they say that they can't comment on something, because "it's a management thing" or because "they are just programmers" but on the other hand they comment on questions as if they were Hyperion and not just contracted developers:

"EntilZha: Our product is OS4. We will support it, as long as we can. Of course, we will have to watch our financial side."

So the problem is not only related to us users confusing Hyperion with the Friedens. It's also them who are not always consistent with the roles they take.

Last edited by polka. on 17-Sep-2006 at 10:30 AM.

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Quote:

Poster: jahc Date: 17-Sep-2006 1:11:02 I suspect OS5 is currently an OS3 or early OS4 kernel, with new libraries.. remember vega? the graphics.library replacement? Stuff like that I'd imagine. Why do a new kernel from scratch when OS4 is still in development, and they're going to get that back in the future?

Well, wasn't the original plan that OS5 is where AmigaOS becomes 64 bit? Wouldn't it need a 64 bit kernel for that purpose?

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Poster: polka. Date: 17-Sep-2006 18:29:18 From the log, I can see that the Friedens are not consistent with their "roles": Sometimes they say that they can't comment on something, because "it's a management thing" or because "they are just programmers" but on the other hand they comment on questions as if they were Hyperion and not just contracted developers:

I would not think that people working so long on any project would speak any other way about their work:
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"EntilZha: Our product is OS4. We will support it, as long as we can. Of course, we will have to watch our financial side."

Now is this their financial side as contractors, or in reference to Hyperion? Perhaps Hyperion is being referred to and perhaps not? Frankly such "inconsistencies" are minor matters arn't they? Especially when the statement is ambigious, but even if they were referring to Hyperion, what does it amount to?

"Hyperion's product is OS4, They will support it as long as they can. Of course they will watch their financial side." is hardly speaking for the company so much as observing a fact. Or rather.

"As contractors our product is OS4. We will continue to support it as long as we can. Of course we will have to watch our financial side - ie we do not intend to work without pay forever supporting it."

Hardly a big difference in intent between the two different meanings. One an observation about the company they work for, the other an assertion of their position as programmers, perhaps the statement that accidentally combined both?

Last edited by GregS on 17-Sep-2006 at 11:46 PM.

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Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

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So the problem is not only related to us users confusing Hyperion with the Friedens. It's also them who are not always consistent with the roles they take.

Nice and bogus.

Stating that "Our product is OS 4" does mean exactly that: We, the OS 4 team, have worked on this, and it is our product. But as soon as it doesn't pay the bills anymore, we need to move on to something else.

I'm sorry, just because I don't write a disclaimer that I am only a contractor for Hyperion and that I do not speak for the management of Hyperion beneath everything I write (or Thomas, for the matter) doesn't mean that I am not "consistent with the roles".

I really though you could come up with better stuff in the meantime.

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@rogue
I don't think that polka was trying to be nasty or troll - but rather he was just trying to get a clear understanding of your position, from what you were saying in different places, and I guess he happened to notice this apparent inconsistency - and then posted an honest question without thinking about it too hard.

In some ways you should be glad that he & others still have enough interest in OS4 to be carefully reading what you say about it. After the Bill McEwan bombshell(s), I've lost a lot of interest in OS4 (*), and I don't really expect to bother reading much/any of the OS4 "news" (unless some hardware actually gets released).

(* = or rather I've got tired of the unending soap opera. I'd still love to have OS4 as my primary OS, if things ever get sorted. But I've given-up waiting for it - lucky that I still like OS3.9 on WinUAE.)

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What are your thoughts about OS4 on the Playstation3 ? Rogue: My thoughts... "Wouldn't that be cool?" WE're going to look into PS 3 when its out.

This has definite possibilities... I reckon you could sell OS4 to the retro crowd by bundling it with a 'wrapped' version of UAE and a bunch of classic Amiga games.

Include in the OS a program that allows you to go on-line and purchase pre-packaged Amiga games. Then you could select downloaded games from a menu, which would run UAE with a custom configuration that works for the game in question.

You'd need to do deals with the various publishers to distribute their games, but I suspect many of them would be happy to make some money from their old games, with no cost to them.

I think one of the modern web browser projects would need to be completed and included, since this is one of the things that people would expect to come with an OS today.

Other software could be sold on-line and downloaded so that all you need to physically buy is the OS itself.

The retro angle would give you plenty of sales because retro is 'in' these days, but at least some of the people who bought it would end up delving into the OS itself and enjoying the experience. Could be a great first step in getting the Amiga "out there" again. Getting the price right would be tricky given that it would be perceived as a retro game compilation, even if it did include an entire OS.

Last edited by madtrekker on 18-Sep-2006 at 11:58 AM.

@ChrisH

Thanks. Good to see that not everybody misconceived what I said.

Last edited by polka. on 18-Sep-2006 at 01:35 PM.

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@polka
Quote:

Thanks. Good to see that not everybody misconceived what I said.

I saw nothing but yet another slam as well. Perhaps past posting behaviour has an effect on how readers understand future postings...

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ExecSG Team Lead

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I don't think that polka was trying to be nasty or troll

Judging from previous postings by him, I do.

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After the Bill McEwan bombshell(s), I've lost a lot of interest in OS4 (*), and I don't really expect to bother reading much/any of the OS4 "news" (unless some hardware actually gets released).

What bombshell? You've heard one version of it, nothing else.

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Thanks. Good to see that not everybody misconceived what I said.

There's not much to misinterpret in "you are not consistent".

FYI, I sometimes DO speak for Hyperion if Hyperion asked me to relay certain things. It should be clear that after five years working on OS4, it's as much "our" product as it is Hyperions, even though legally speaking, only the parts written by me belong to me.

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"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

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as they seem to be two different things these days...

Sigh...

They've been two different things from day one. Which part of "we've always been contractors" didn't you get ?

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Thomas, the kernel guy

"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

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I saw nothing but yet another slam as well.

Slam? Are you kidding?

What I did was simply to state that from _my own impression_ the Friedens are sometimes switching between the roles "programmers contracted by Hyperion" and "spokesmen for Hyperion". I understand this is hard when you have been already contracted for so long. But it might explain why people still quote them with a simple "Hyperion said that..." sometimes, although being repeatedly told not to do so. *sigh*

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So the problem is not only related to us users confusing Hyperion with the Friedens. It's also them who are not always consistent with the roles they take.

I could not agree more. It has been very easy to confuse the two over the past few years, specially when we've seen them using terms like "our" and "we" when referring to AOS4 or speaking very officiously on behalf of Hyperion on these forums.

Although I greatly appreciate that the Freiden brothers have taken the time to participate in this Q&A session and be as candid as they could be, I for one find it very annoying that the Q&A with Hyperion is yet again not a Q&A with Hyperion at all, but rather a Q&A with the Frieden bothers...which as everyone is always so keen to point out around here these days, is NOT Hyperion.

At this rate, I'd say that AInc.'s (AKA Bill McEwen) record on keeping in touch with the community has been better than Hyperion's (AKA Ben Hermans)...which isn't saying much at all really ...specially when one considers the fact that we hadn't heard from Bill in close to two years until this week. Unless I'm mystaken, we haven't heard from Ben in well over three years now I believe!

This would be amusing if it wasn't so sad.

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Quote:

Slam? Are you kidding? What I did was simply to state that from _my own impression_ the Friedens are sometimes switching between the roles "programmers contracted by Hyperion" and "spokesmen for Hyperion". I understand this is hard when you have been already contracted for so long. But it might explain why people still quote them with a simple "Hyperion said that..." sometimes, although being repeatedly told not to do so. *sigh*

Maybe my grey matter is failing me, but until a few months ago, simply from the statements that Rogue made in these forums, I always got the impression by the language and tone used that he was speaking offcially on behalf or Hyperion, so clearly there are many out there that got this "missimpression" too, not just you and I.

Some people need to take a pill, cut back on the caffeine and get some sleep methinks, because it just seems to me that it doesn't take too much to get them to pop a vein these days!

...putting on my teflon coated radiation suit on for protection!

Last edited by elatour on 18-Sep-2006 at 09:10 PM.

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@elatour

Quote:

Hyperion's (AKA Ben Hermans)

I was under the impression that Ben Herman had left Hyperion some time ago.

Quote:

Maybe my grey matter is failing me, but until a few months ago, simply from the statements that Rogue made in these forums, I always got the impression by the language and tone used that he was speaking offcially on behalf or Hyperion, so clearly there are many out there that got this "missimpression" too, not just you and I.

Then you must have missed the many times he said that he was not speaking for Hyperion, but for himself?

Usually when someone makes a post in a forum then it is automatically their personal opinion. Since the Friedens have many times stated that they are only contractors working for Hyperion and not a party to much of the internal goings on at the company, then it follows that their opinions cannot be assumed to be indicative of Hyperion's official position, since they may not even know what Hyperion's position is on some of the topics they have posted on.

I've never had any trouble with this concept, and I suspect that some of the people who claim to are just deliberately trying to stir things up, perhaps in an attempt to get them to reveal more than they should or maybe just for fun. I think this is why these kind of questions (which seem to happen with some frequency and are always greeted with the same answer) wind them up so much.

Anyway with all that said, I do think that it is a valid point that we have heard little from Hyperion since Ben's departure, and it would be good to hear their side of the story from someone who can speak officially. Of course if there are pending legal disputes, then it may be wise not to speak publically about the issues, since that could affect the case. However it does seem that their previously shining reputation has been rather tarnished by what was revealed in the Bill McEwen Q&A.