@ ppc4me

Ouch!

Well, that's "the MorphOS Team" in a nutshell - only telling people what they *won't* do!

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Well, the "if they make such a foolish decision, it will be *their* loss" statement was based on the *assumption* that they have an interest in getting their OS as widely spread as possible in order to get it in the hands of as many creative people as possible;

Getting Morphos "as widely spread as possible"? --> Port it to x86.

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However, I am *still* quite sure that MorphOS will become available for this hardware. There is a rumour that they are working towards a MorphOS 1.5 public release before christmas (or so).

Why do you think that the release of Morphos 1.5 for Pegasos I/II (and maybe Powerup) systems in 2007 is linked to a MOS-release for EFIKA? Just because an inofficial 1.5 has been shown on EFIKA?
Since the chances that MOS will ever be officially released for EFIKA look rather dim at this point, I am not interested in the EFIKA. A fanless ~1.2Ghz Via EPIA offers more performance, onboard options and supports more OS'es at a lower price.

@ hatschi

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Getting Morphos "as widely spread as possible"? --> Port it to x86.

Heh, yeah ...



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Why do you think that the release of Morphos 1.5 for Pegasos I/II (and maybe Powerup) systems in 2007 is linked to a MOS-release for EFIKA? Just because an inofficial 1.5 has been shown on EFIKA?

Yes, I think it makes sense to introduce support for new hardware during an OS update, so if you're going to do it, better do it then!

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A fanless ~1.2Ghz Via EPIA offers more performance, onboard options and supports more OS'es at a lower price.

Then why don't you buy one? I have one of those myself! (they are not *that* great BTW)

More of this, more of that - The point with the Efika is going in the *other* direction; *less* ! You notice this in the meaning of the name "Efika" already. The role OS4/MorphOS could play there is making it possible, without sacrifying usability or make it sluggish! Finally a purpose for these OS's - making the most out of lean and low-power HW! The Bill Of Materials for making an Efika is only a handful of dollars or so. There is no way the BOM of an Epia could match that. The rest is up to volume.

The price seems really nice. AGP riser is fine with me. The 128MB is too low (but might be enogh for most apps). If there would be at least a socket for more RAM on it. And one IDE channel is maybe also a bit 'tight'. Would need a special adpater to drive 3,5" (or two drives).

The FPGA was ment to take over some parts which are now implemented in discret electronics, no ? I see the audio part done in the FPGA, or was it ment to be kind of offloading per app (don't think so). My biggest point is, no OS4, though.. OTHO, if MOS would be available, maybe possible just to take a look...

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@falemagn


click to enlarge

Looking at the Efika IDE onboard, it is not standard pins for a cable, but rather a socket to plug the hard drive directly to. The hard drive mounts against the motherboard by the bottom screw holes. You would have to come up with some custom cable to make it work.

What is it with you and the Efika, anyway? You seem to be in love with it.

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@ Herewegoagain

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Looking at the Efika IDE onboard, it is not standard pins for a cable, but rather a socket to plug the hard drive directly to.

That is correct.

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You would have to come up with some custom cable to make it work.

Or buy an adapter (male/male, right?) and put it in place prior to any cable (whatever cable that may be) ...

@ AMiGR

I suppose you are talking to me? (Not sure)

Answer: -Yes!

In my view, this kind of hardware is *a reason* for OS4/MorphOS to exist in 2007! And I love MorphOS (OS4)!

Why on earth would anyone (outside our little community of a few hundred people) want to use these OS's on 2007 x86 hardware? They can't offer *anything* to a desktop user, at least not *anything close* to what current desktop systems (always including the available apps in the discussion) can do! Same thing for using them on relatively overpriced, relatively underspecced PPC hardware!

Where is the commercial future in that?

They can't do anything "server" either!

The *power* (opportunity! ) of Amiga is its leanness, its efficiency with resources, the very *opposite to bloat*. This is where the Efika (or similar, but there are currently no similar hardware) comes into the picture. The Amiga (in this context MorphOS/OS4) can bring this kind of hardware to life! And it may work the other way around too, that's one of my points!

What else is "our" OS's good for, in a commercial/future context?

That last question is not asked enough on on-line forums, IMHO. That is why I make these posts ...

@takemehomegrandma

Yes, it's a nice board, but neither the OS4 nor the MOS team has expressed any interest on porting their OSs to it. This is not a good situation (it personally makes my blood boil that we have a $200 board we can't use for no good reason, even if it's a bit on the puny side)

On the plus side, you can (natively) run the following OSs on it:

Linux
AROS
AmigaOS 1.x - 3.x
Atari TOS
MS-DOS
C64 Basic V2

...etc...

@falemagn

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Efika runs Linux. AROS runs on Linux, hence AROS runs on Efika.

Well linux runs on my PC too. So no thanks. If it can't run OS4 then it's useless for me.

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In my view, this kind of hardware is *a reason* for OS4/MorphOS to exist in 2007! And I love MorphOS (OS4)!

It is? Probably, if you wanna use it for embedded applications, in which case it's absolutely useless for *you* or *me* but useful for a company that wants to provide a complete software+hardware solution for something. A 400MHz 603 for desktop applications? Nope.

Again, why are YOU so interested in an embedded product? And you seriously don't get what the MorphOS-Team means that the Efika will not be supported, you are mixing things up: It will *not* be supported for end-users. A company can probably license it for embedded use if so they wish (and they'd have to have something very specific in mind to do this). So, how are they shooting themselves in the foot? You, yourself, just claimed that the money is in the embedded sector and that these OSes are useless for the desktop, so WHY would they make a *user* release for an EMBEDDED product?

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By which logic? AROS isn't comparable to E-UAE and only to a little extent to MacOnLinux.

Comparable is not the point.
Running MOL on top of Linux does not make the system a Mac, just a Linux system.
Running UAE on top of Windows does not make the system an Amiga(-like), just a Windows system.
Aros on top of Linux is just a Linux system running something, not an (native) Amiga and not an (native) Amiga-like.
"On top of" is the key here.

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I agree that running something on top of Linux doesn't imply this something is running natively. On the other hand, running something on top of Linux doesn't imply this something is not running natively either.

Interesting.
But to keep things much simplier: running something on top of Linux does imply that this system is a native Linux one, nothing else.

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The first post stated that there's no Amiga-like system running on this board: AROS is an Amiga-like system and does run on this board.

It does not run natively, this is only a Linux system running it, not an (native) Amiga and not an (native) Amiga-like.


Well, yes, I agree, that does sound like a 8 years old boy reasoning. Is that your age?
It is the mental level I try to reach to understand your logic.

Bye,
TMTisFree

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The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

Cool!

Rude!

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2017 Camaro 2SS

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It is?

Yes. The leanness and efficiency is probably the Amiga's biggest (and last remaining) comparative strengths. You should capitalize on that, and the best way of doing so would be to use the OS in an envireonment where this strength *comes to its fullest use*.

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Probably, if you wanna use it for embedded applications, in which case it's absolutely useless for *you* or *me* but useful for a company that wants to provide a complete software+hardware solution for something.

And MorphOS/OS4 getting a stable financial ground to stand on would be *bad* for you and me in exactly what way? You see, it's not either this or that, you could have both! The trick is to reach out to a community, where creativity can spark new things and new developers. I'm not saying that all users are creative, but there is a chance that *some* will get an idea they want to try out. You can build things with the Efika. Heck, *I* want to try building devices like this based on the Efika, MorphOS and Hollywood. It could become an industry, and I would be prepared to try! There are some 200 developers that will have free Efikas in a very close future, for Linux things, but many would give MorphOS a try as well. If it would be available. The OS is running on the hardware, but someone makes *a decision* to sit out on the opportunity. The same people decides to spend their time on supporting old Amiga hardware instead, that's only still holding together in 2007 by massive use of glue, steel-wire, a lot of ave-maria's and some luck. Insane prioritation, if you ask me.

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A 400MHz 603 for desktop applications? Nope.

But a decade old 160Mhz 603 (power-up) is a "Yep"?

That's what "the MorphOS Team" seems to think anyway.

Alkis, people used 25MHz 040 Amigas for ages. Some still do. Amiga makes that possible. I know that MorphOS and OS4 is a different thing, a different architecture, but they still follow the lean tradition, but on even more powerful hardware. What Amiga Desktop Applications do you use that *needs* an 1.7GHz+ 7448? Have you seen the MorphOS @ Efika videos? Have you read the reports? I think that possibly the Efika would be slightly slower than your 600MHz Pegasos1 (for some benchmarks at least (IDE perhaps) while faster in others (memory, etc). Possibly, you as an Pegasos1 end-user *wouldn't notice* any *big* difference between your Peg1 and the Efika. But then take a look at the form factor, the fanless design, the power consumption, and most of all, the *price*, and then tell me that the Efika is a bad idea and it won't fill a purpose for Amiga? A *complete system* for *less* than USD250/EUR200 (including profit margins), is that really such a bad idea? Especially now, when the Efika will be the only PPC hardware option for new users (at least for a while) ...

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Interesting. But to keep things much simplier: running something on top of Linux does imply that this system is a native Linux one, nothing else.

So, by your reasoning, MacOSX must not be running natively on top of the apple machines, right?

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It does not run natively, this is only a Linux system running it, not an (native) Amiga and not an (native) Amiga-like.

Therefore, MacOSX is only a rebadged BSD system and MacOS applications don't run natively on it, right?

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It is the mental level I try to reach to understand your logic.

You really can't get at an higher level than that? Sorry to hear it, condolences.

_________________
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system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

Quote:

nd MorphOS/OS4 getting a stable financial ground to stand on would be *bad* for you and me in exactly what way? You see, it's not either this or that, you could have both! The trick is to reach out to a community, where creativity can spark new things and new developers. I'm not saying that all users are creative, but there is a chance that *some* will get an idea they want to try out. You can build things with the Efika. Heck, *I* want to try building devices like this based on the Efika, MorphOS and Hollywood. It could become an industry, and I would be prepared to try! There are some 200 developers that will have free Efikas in a very close future, for Linux things, but many would give MorphOS a try as well. If it would be available. The OS is running on the hardware, but someone makes *a decision* to sit out on the opportunity. The same people decides to spend their time on supporting old Amiga hardware instead, that's only still holding together in 2007 by massive use of glue, steel-wire, a lot of ave-maria's and some luck. Insane prioritation, if you ask me.

If you have a viable business plan, tell them. They'll listen. If you plan on buying one to create something for the sake of it, do not expect support.

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But a decade old 160Mhz 603 (power-up) is a "Yep"? That's what "the MorphOS Team" seems to think anyway.

They do? Nice, TMHG, start putting words into their mouths. *Amiga* support is a totally different thing than *user* support for an *embedded* board

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Have you seen the MorphOS @ Efika videos? Have you read the reports? I think that possibly the Efika would be slightly slower than your 600MHz Pegasos1 (for some benchmarks at least (IDE perhaps) while faster in others (memory, etc). Possibly, you as an Pegasos1 end-user *wouldn't notice* any *big* difference between your Peg1 and the Efika.

Eh, nice comparison, my Pegasos1/G3 is slow.

Read my lips: It's an embedded board. Really really nice as an embedded board, slow as hell as a desktop.

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If you have a viable business plan, tell them. They'll listen.

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If you plan on buying one to create something for the sake of it, do not expect support.

And here lies the problem.

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Quote: But a decade old 160Mhz 603 (power-up) is a "Yep"? That's what "the MorphOS Team" seems to think anyway. They do? Nice, TMHG, start putting words into their mouths.

Hey, I let *their actions* do the talking, not putting anything in anyones mouth!

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*Amiga* support is a totally different thing than *user* support for an *embedded* board

Yes, the former is *completely worthless* and *a waste of time* on a thing that can never lead anywhere. The latter is the very opposite.

The sad thing is that MorphOS *do run* on the Efika. It's there. Not releasing it is PURE IDIOCY, nothing more, nothing less.

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Eh, nice comparison, my Pegasos1/G3 is slow.

Not mine. Well, it's slow when *benchmarked* to my x86 systems, but hey, those are desktops and server systems, and a completely different architecture. They *need* to be fast. My Pegs are running MorphOS, so they don't have that same need. The lean MorphOS makes the experience really enjoyable, and all Amiga applications I use runs happily on it, and things are not sluggish at all.

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Read my lips: It's an embedded board. Really really nice as an embedded board

Just what do you hope to achieve by dividing hardware in rigid categories? Don't you see that the only things that happens, is that you enforce limitations on possible options?

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slow as hell as a desktop.

And who on earth would try to create a serious desktop option, competable to MacOS or Windows systems, out of MorphOS/OS4? It can never happen!

This will be fine as an "Amiga desktop" however. Nothing you do rendering or compiling on, but perfect for what a majority of general people use their desktops for. Sending mail, watching movies, playing games, surf the net (depending on how resource-hungry "Sputnik" may be), listen to music, chat, transfer files, etc, etc. 250USD/200EUR for a complete system. How on earth *can you not* see the potential in that?

EFIKA can make full use of Amiga and alike OS strengths, being efficiency the key... I fail to see on how most are deeply attached to their A**00 and keep doing stuff on it (as he hadn't ceased to work) and when one have the possibility of having a machine which is faster, smaller most fail to see its potential (too much time on the dark side I may ask)... it may be underpowered when compared with today computers but when used with such a lean OS it can run circles around most desktops*, that's the magic behind Amiga alike OS or isn't it?

I can imagine one scenario where it can fit pretty well, say instead of having 3 brothers struggling for one computer, I can see 3 computers for each with costing the earth...

* In the sense it can give a pleasurable experience, I don't even have to see it, just remember on how my A1200 performed with 'just' a 060 and a bvision

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The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

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And here lies the problem.

Yes, it is a problem for us BUT it's a viable choice that will not cost them. To get ANY real money of of the Efika, I repeat: You need to provide a complete product for a very specific application. This needs a BUSINESS plan and solid corporate support, something a company CAN do but you CANNOT do, no matter what your delusions are.

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Yes, the former is *completely worthless* and *a waste of time* on a thing that can never lead anywhere. The latter is the very opposite.

The former allows people that might be interested in MorphOS, coming from an Amiga background, try it FOR FREE on hardware they ALREADY have. The latter does NOT.

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The sad thing is that MorphOS *do run* on the Efika. It's there. Not releasing it is PURE IDIOCY, nothing more, nothing less.

No, YOU misunderstand what the target market of the Efika is. The embedded market.

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Just what do you hope to achieve by dividing hardware in rigid categories? Don't you see that the only things that happens, is that you enforce limitations on possible options?

Just what do you hope to achieve by claiming that a 400MHz 603e with no built in GFX chipset and a single PCI/AGP slot can be used for anything other than very specific applications? Bloody hell, you cannot even connect an ATAPI DVD drive without a special adapter, since the connector on it is a female 44pin 2.5" IDE connector. Or do you think that MorphOS is gonna like playing DVDs back on a 603 through USB?

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And who on earth would try to create a serious desktop option, competable to MacOS or Windows systems, out of MorphOS/OS4? It can never happen! This will be fine as an "Amiga desktop" however. Nothing you do rendering or compiling on, but perfect for what a majority of general people use their desktops for. Sending mail, watching movies, playing games, surf the net (depending on how resource-hungry "Sputnik" may be), listen to music, chat, transfer files, etc, etc. 250USD/200EUR for a complete system. How on earth *can you not* see the potential in that?

Have you actually ever tried to play high quality DiVXs with MPlayer on CPU as slow as a 400MHz G2? Bloody hell, you can't on a 600MHz 750CXe without skipping frames. Playing games? *WHAT* games apart from some ancient ones and solitaire would run on such a slow machine, TMHG? *Gaming* is one of the most demanding thing one can do on any hardware. If you think that *anyone* would like to play some *desktop* games on a 400MHz processor, you seriously need a reality check.

Last edited by AMiGR on 05-Nov-2006 at 05:39 PM.

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400MHZ could be ok, when OS is heavily optimized for it, moust likely illegal way (point of programming)