Quote:

Quote: TMHG: is there any word on what the MOS team will be emphasizing as they move away from Genesi? I was always under the impression that they were more than partners. No, nothing. Quote: Years ago these two camps could have cooperated and taken a serious run at the market. It's a shame. Yes, indeed.

Shame that you aren't really paying any attention, then. They've said that they'll support Mac hardware.

_________________

This is a sad time, the Peg rocks. Thanks to those involved in bringing it out (and giving us countless hours of enjoyment using it). Here's to the future:

_________________

Roll on 8641D boards? :D

Quote:

We have to choose between expensive hardware

No Alkis, you have *nothing* to choose between. Think about that.

Quote:

and cheap USELESS hardware?

Useless?

A complete system for 200 Euro that runs Simple Mail, IRC, Aminet Radio, etc, etc, etc, *just fine* thanks to the lean Amiga envireonment. "Useless"?

Quake1, Wipeout, DVD video playback. Useless?

In my eyes, this is the single biggest opportunity that MorphOS/OS4 has ever had, and possibly will ever have as well. You call that "useless".

If you simply *fail to understand* the point in having *extremely basic* but at the same time *extremely cheap* hardware for our OS's, if you fail to understand that this is an exclusive opportunity for community growth (users, developers, system integrators, dealers, etc) *thanks to its price*, and that the price is more important than GHz, then what more can I say? Had you come from a Windows background instead of Amiga, then it would have been easier to understand that you fail to see this, but now ...?

("Useless" he say, with capital letters and all, oh my ...)

Quote:

I'll pass, thanks.

You *will have to* pass, and you can pass all you want, that's absolutely fine by me.

The sad part is that everyone else will have to pass as well. The OS is there. Running fine. But it won't be available, not even for those who is curious about MorphOS and think a 200Euro price tag is *more important* (even an enabler) than whether Simple mail will be able to open up and display your mails 8 milliseconds faster on a 1.7GHz G4.

A lot of opportunity is closed; not because of the OS can't run or doesn't run (for it does), but because some political decision.

Pure lunacy ...

@ AMiGR

Quote:

Shame that you aren't really paying any attention, then. They've said that they'll support Mac hardware.

Yes I have missed that. Who would have guessed that they would go x86 after all they have said on the PPC/x86 issue?



Cause surely they must mean the Intel Mac's, since only x86 Mac hardware is for sale!

Quote:

Quake1, Wipeout, DVD video playback. Useless?

Quake1? WipeOut? Why would I want to pay a penny to play any of these?

DVD video playback? I seriously doubt that it can play *full resolution* DVDs with no scaling down in the decoder directly from disc, not even the 750CXe can do that with MPlayer for MorphOS, let alone a 603e at 400MHz. Forget high resolution and bitrate DiVXs as well. Forget browsing, of course, I always use so many open tabs that I run out of memory with 4 times as much, using a KHTML-based browser.

Quote:

Had you come from a Windows background instead of Amiga, then it would have been easier to understand that you fail to see this, but now ...?

Look, mate: I don't have a single machine that I do not absolutely rape with my usage. Even the dual G5 I have gets raped by my *everyday* activities. The G3 in the Peg could hardly cope with my MORPHOS usage and the Efika is SLOWER than that. Hence, for me, it is *useless*. If you fail to see this, then I ask you to wake up and smell the coffee: It is almost 2007 now.

Quote:

A lot of opportunity is closed; not because of the OS can't run or doesn't run (for it does), but because some political decision. Pure lunacy ...

Yawn, see you again when the Efika is a success and MorphOS is dead because it didn't support it...

_________________

Quote:

Yes I have missed that. Who would have guessed that they would go x86 after all they have said on the PPC/x86 issue? Cause surely they must mean the Intel Mac's, since only x86 Mac hardware is for sale!

No, they mean PPC Macs. You know, the ones that got produced in millions and of which the market is still **full** of at prices cheaper than the Efika. You can buy a MacMini PPC for less than 250E.

_________________

Quote:

A complete system for 200 Euro that runs Simple Mail, IRC, Aminet Radio, etc, etc, etc, *just fine* thanks to the lean Amiga envireonment. "Useless"?

Well, considering you could get an used Mac Mini with a G4@1.25 GHz, 40GB HDD and 512MB RAM for as low as $315 (250 EUR, approximatively), then yes, the Efika is kind of useless, from a casual user perspective. MorphOS could run on that Mac Mini as easily as on the Efika.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@AMiGR
Quote:

They've said that they'll support Mac hardware.

Was this an official statement by the Morphos-Team? If yes, do you happen to have a link if this was posted in an open forum? Thanks!

Quote:

I seriously doubt that it can play *full resolution* DVDs with no scaling down in the decoder directly from disc, not even the 750CXe can do that with MPlayer for MorphOS, let alone a 603e at 400MHz.

One could (should (?)) use the GPU of the graphic board to its full use, me thinks...

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

ML and IRC, if I remember correctly.

_________________

If the reason that MOS won't be supported on the Efika is a disagreement between the MOS team and Genesi, then I think we have a good opportunity here for everyone.

It's simple really: I believe that the MOS team should port their work to the SAM440 board. This will increase the market for SAM440 boards (MOS and OS4 users, plus the industrial customers), causing prices to lower; it will also mean that the SAM440 will become an amiga hardware "industry standard" so dealers will decrease their risks - instead of having to guess how many Peg and how many SAM boards to stock and risk having too few of the one and too many of the other, they just have to guess at the total market size. Board repair services will need only expertise on one board, so any amiga dealer that can do repairs can repair any amiga (it will be like the old days of CBM!). The same can happen if/when other boards arrive. We'll finally have standardized hardware across all next-gen amigas, and so all amiga-like OSs will be able to compete on equal footing. Proper benchmarking on identical hardware will be possible, and people will be able to multiboot MOS, OS4 and AROS. And since the SAM440 team isn't affiliated with any given group (unlike the Eyetech-Amiga Inc and BPlan-Genesi partnerships), it really will be neutral ground. Plus, several high level members of the SAM440 team have explicitly said they welcome anyone to port their OSs to their board, and will freely provide documentation.

This has the potential to be a really good thing!

@ AMiGR

Quote:

Quake1? WipeOut? Why would I want to pay a penny to play any of these?

Are you pretending to be stupid here, or ...?

The demonstration shows that *it's possible* to make 3D games (and applications) that run accellerated on on the Efika at more than decent speed, they do *not* try to convince you to play Quake1 for gods sake!

Well, BTW, do you expect to see Oblivion on MorphOS/OS4 anytime soon, on your "high power" 32-bit PPC "desktop" dream-machine? Or was it the 1.4GHz mini-mac? Any other games coming to the Amiga anytime soon (read: *ever*), that will require hardware higher specced than the Efika with official 3D drivers?

Quote:

DVD video playback?

Absolutely. I never said it was CPU driven (but maybe it was). It could very well be hardware accellerated playback. I think that was included in the driver pack, but I can be mistaken. Divx is definitely tougher...

Quote:

Hence, for me, it is *useless*.

So you say. But *many* people will find it perfectly usable. I know I would. I know lots of people (old Amigans) who would buy a MorphOS system for 200EUR out of pure curiosity. You won't get a great deal of performance, but you won't pay a great deal of money either, and you can use most of them Amiga apps that people remember, in an envireonment that people like. Charging tripple or four times that sum for a system that might have (slightly) higher specs, would *not* make the system a lot more useful, and it would scare those kind of people away.

Quote:

If you fail to see this, then I ask you to wake up and smell the coffee: It is almost 2007 now.

Yes, it's almost 2007, and I'm sorry if this sounds childish, but it is *you* who should wake up and smell the coffee: In 2007 we have deskop OS's, and we have server OS's. MorphOS/OS4 are neither of those two. In 2007 we have industry standard desktop applications, and server applications. MorphOS/OS4 has *none* of those, *NONE*!

And here you are, arguing that the Efika is *useless* because it isn't suitable enough for *desktop markets*! Clearly, you must be joking?

Your view of a future for MorphOS is that someone should reverse-engineer mini-macs by peeking and poking its hardware, and then send off potential *desktop* customers (who usually choose between MacOS or Windows, with all those industry standard applications and games) to some freaking *e-bay* or scrap-yard to fish for some second hand mini-macs? Is that it?

The 8641D processor will be the most powerful, 32-bit PPC CPU. Say that "the MorphOS Team" decides to support some upcoming hardware (but not from Genesi, heaven forbid!) using this processor (only using one of the cores of course). Would that make MorphOS a better desktop option? OF COURSE NOT! OK, maybe you would be able to read mail in "Simple Mail" twice as fast than the Efika, but big f*****g deal, when it doesn't run MS Outlook (and simple mail will not feel *slow* on the Efika anyway, so...)! Maybe you can draw lines twice as fast in Personal Paint compared to the Efika, but big deal, when it doesn't run Photoshop (and Personal Paint will not be *slow* on the Efika). Maybe you can do a spell-check in Final Writer twice as fast compared to the Efika, but hey, it's not like you're using MS Office (and it's not that Final Writer will be *slow* on the Efika anyway)! See my point?

Look buddy, you should look at what MorphOS *is*/*can be*, and what it *isn't*/*can't be*. It can never be a desktop system, neither can it be a server system. At least not by 2007 standards.

MorphOS *does* have some strenghts, and one is very significant. It's an *extremely lean* OS, with an existing bank of extremely lean applications! A lean culture altogether, the very opposite to bloat. That's the strength, and that's what MorphOS should capitalize on. This is done by niching towards *lean* HW (not the other way), since only there will this strenght of MorphOS come to its *fullest use*, and the OS be competable with other OS's (that might even be available *for free*, together with a huge bank of *modern* applications). A "lean desktop system" could be an approach (if the desktop approach should be tried at all). Maybe for use in third world where poverty rules?

Sure, developers and "power users" (this existing community for example) would want to have have a 32-bit "developer system" with more juice, like the 8641D for example. But that would only be the means to the end, and the end-goal would be Efika-type of devices. Maybe mobile/portable. Maybe handheld.

@falemagn

Maybe Ralph Scmidt could set up some coordination service on e-bay, so that interested MorphOS users could send in their interest, and Ralph or Henes or Cisc or whoever then tries to match available second hand mini-macs with the potential users. Maybe it should involve a middle man that dusts off and checks out the hardware too, in order to guarantee the user a flawless experience, with warranty if their mini-macs breaks down after a while because of someone dropped their coffee on it two years ago? I think it would be nice if they smelled it as well; I don't want a computer that has lived at some heavy smoker for years. Hey, they could perhaps glue on some custom stickers onto it in the process, thus creating a new, professional identity for the mini-macs in an easy way?

Quote:

the Efika is kind of useless, from a casual user perspective. MorphOS could run on that Mac Mini as easily as on the Efika.

MorphOS could *not easily* run on the mini-mac. It would take much time and effort, and when the hack&patch process is ready, one can only hope that they have mapped and used the mini-mac hardware to the fullest. I don't think it will be done to be honest. I think this can have been some drunk comment that Alkis overheard from someone on IRC or something ...

MorphOS *runs* on the Efika.

Which is useful of them two, and which is useless? Today? In half a year? In a whole year?

Quote:

MorphOS could *not easily* run on the mini-mac. It would take much time and effort, and when the hack&patch process is ready, one can only hope that they have mapped and used the mini-mac hardware to the fullest. I don't think it will be done to be honest. I think this can have been some drunk comment that Alkis overheard from someone on IRC or something ...

Oh, right, and you know how hard it's gonna be how exactly?

Drunken comment? You seriously are full of yourself mate, it wasn't an one off comment, it was a whole discussion.

Quote:

Which is useful of them two, and which is useless? Today? In half a year? In a whole year?

The Efika.

You don't care about MorphOS or AmigaOS anyway, you just care to promote the Efika, so why exactly are you here?

_________________

Quote:

Are you pretending to be stupid here, or ...? The demonstration shows that *it's possible* to make 3D games (and applications) that run accellerated on on the Efika at more than decent speed, they do *not* try to convince you to play Quake1 for gods sake! Well, BTW, do you expect to see Oblivion on MorphOS/OS4 anytime soon, on your "high power" 32-bit PPC "desktop" dream-machine? Or was it the 1.4GHz mini-mac? Any other games coming to the Amiga anytime soon (read: *ever*), that will require hardware higher specced than the Efika with official 3D drivers?

Sigh, you said that people can play games on it and gave some rather pathetic examples... which of course I countered... Now, if you wanna play this game, go and try play Freespace 2 and Quake 3 on the Efika.

Quote:

Yes, it's almost 2007, and I'm sorry if this sounds childish, but it is *you* who should wake up and smell the coffee: In 2007 we have deskop OS's, and we have server OS's. MorphOS/OS4 are neither of those two. In 2007 we have industry standard desktop applications, and server applications. MorphOS/OS4 has *none* of those, *NONE*!

Sigh, at least it's not me that has the delusion that having an OS available for a platform suddenly makes it useful as an embedded OS without having it as part of a complete product with strong corporate support...

Once again... Why are you here? I probably know far better than you what MorphOS can and can't do. I do not have any delusions that it's gonna take on Windows and is gonna take the world, I just like using it. It could be useful for an embedded purpose, *as part of a complete product*. What *YOU* do not get is that whether it gets available as an *end-user* product for the Efika is grossly irrelevant. Any money that can be made out of it is NOT there. Apart from that... You do not know any of the internal comings and going between the two entities involved here, so I would suggest you not to point fingers.

BTW, you chose to ignore the most important MorphOS applications that will bloody crawl on the Efika in that little rant of yours.

_________________

@TMHGM

So, how does a Apple Power Mac Dual G5 2ghz with 1.5GB RAM for 301 EUR sound like?

Or an iMac G5 20" at 366 EUR?

You see, it's not that hard.

Let's just hope it's not a fraud. My first win on ebay ever!

Quote:

MorphOS could *not easily* run on the mini-mac.

Really? How do you know?

Last edited by falemagn on 06-Nov-2006 at 03:04 AM.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

Hi,

@AMIGR

He,he .. i know why i have voted for you [and zerohero] on the Moderator
poll ..
You are in the blue camp .. but NOT a troll !!
If all members [on both sides] like you .. the future glows better for
BOTH camps !
You bring a fresh air here ...

Musst agree with ALL your points !!

R-TEAM

_________________
My Hardware Config and GFX-Work on my HomePage



Long Live T H E [|D|A|R|K^><^E|M|P|I|R|E|]

Quote:

Let's just hope it's not a fraud. My first win on ebay ever!

Bah! Of course it was! Luckily, hadn't paid yet.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

Quote:

Now, if you wanna play this game, go and try play Freespace 2 and Quake 3 on the Efika.

I don't know how advanced is the 3D hardware acceleration, but given a good GFX board it might well do the trick, if it's well supported that is...

Quote:

BTW, you chose to ignore the most important MorphOS applications that will bloody crawl on the Efika in that little rant of yours.

Such as... If an application crawl in any of Amiga alike OS, I wouldn't surely call it important.

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga