I don't want to interrupt but I feel the urge to throw a new theory into
the discussion, which I know that its a veeeery wierd one, but the little
Information we have could also be interpreted in this way:

A-Cube is not a Systems-Manufacturer. If I had a business, and needed a
small embedded motherboard for a special device or appliance I could go to
A-Cube and ask for a price for their motherboard in the configuration I
wanted in quantity X, e.g. 10000 units. They tell me the price for that
and I could accept or go to another manufacturer.
But as an individual, I coudln't do that, because producing a single
motherboard would be extremly expensive. Therefore A-Cube dose not sell
directly to private customers.

What if the "new" AmigaInc got enough money from sources we don't now
about (yet, or ever will the next 20 years until someone feels the urge
again to write a book about "the good ol' times" ), not only to spend
it on some Event Center Naming, but also to find someone to build new
Computers, complete Systems.

A-Cube won't do that, because its not their businesss. They only deliver
the motherboard. And someone needs to get the SW, AmigaOS , running on
the machine and stick the parts together - HD, RAM, MoBo, Casing etc.
What if that part is done by ACK?

That way every party of the latest discussion would get a revenue.
- Hyperion sells the OS4 via A-Cube with every machine, earning money for
their hard work, finally.
- A-Cube gets the opportunity to sell its MoBo's
- AmigaInc. does not have to pay the Hyperion "conversion Fee" for
AmigaOS4 on new HW, someone here or in another thread talked about
- ACK could sell HW and earn with that his living
- Amiga Inc. has new HW out and proven to Inestors/public/their
neighbours/whoever what a serios business they have, with nearly no
investment. They only give ACK the financial backing for the initial
volume.

It was late while I wrote this, so all above should be read with a grain of salt but
could be possible, couldn't it? Bearing in mind that nearly anything was
said in those Press Releases of the nearest past, by any of the involved
parties, at least.

And NO, I don't have any other information than you do and I'm not
involved anyhow!

Quote:

Quote: If Amiga and ACK delivers something different to Hyperions OS4 and at the same time stops Hyperion from distributing/sell OS4, that would probably result in a boycott of Amiga and a LOT of bad press. This is not a market anyway, so in what way would they be bothered by that? No-one could make a living out of the current "Amiga Market", no-one is (least of all Amiga Inc)

Please tell me, who (outside this non-market) would be interested in buying a new "Amiga board" (which can't run all those classic games they might remember without emulators, which you can run anywhere else anyway)?

I mean, I agree that it doesn't really matter to Amiga inc. whatever (if anything) they deliver to us as AmigaOS. It doesn't matter what we think of it. but then on the other hand, it doesn't matter if they deliver (or rather "let others deliver") hardware either.
So if they're going to stab us in the back (again), why bother announcing the hardware in the first place? They could have just remained silent, as they have been doing untill now.
Quote:

and a boycott wouldn't be noticed by anyone. That's how tiny and insignificant this market is.

Agreed. If everyone in the world (not just this non-market) agreed to never buy anything from Amiga inc. that wouldn't make a slightest difference in their sales figures (are there any anyway?)

Don't just think "about us", Amiga inc. tried hard to introduce non-amiga-related stuff to people outside amiga market (while destroying/ignoring "everything amiga"), I guess this is still their primary goal. There is always a chance that they might manage to make themselves look big and premium enough to fool some not-too-IT-literate people into a big deal. A chance that a few individuals could easily spoil.

You know I am as conspiratorial and skeptical as the next person, maybe even more so.

But you know.....it's a bit like the saying that goes something like "if it 'quacks' it's more than likely it's a duck".

Sometimes..... someone announcing the imminent release of something actually releases something.

Hard to believe, I know.

Ok. Going back to my happy place now.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

Maybe they release something, maybe not but...
The most intresting IMO is what is Acube and Hyperions take on this ?
Are they out in the cold or not ?

If they are NOT left out in the cold, then I might even throw some bananas in here.

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

@sneaky

If it was that way one would be able to read about it from both Hyperion and ACube.

As it stands we have 2 groups, claiming to have HW ready, not mentioning eachother, hinting at OS4-compability but carefull avoiding saying that loud.

Every theory that doesn't take that into account is void.

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

Yes, you're right. This is a drawback of my thoughts ;)
Another bottleneck is that all relays on AmigaInc's financial situation.

But, we will see. ... or we won't, just as what its going to be.

Quote:

As it stands we have 2 groups, claiming to have HW ready, not mentioning eachother, hinting at OS4-compability but carefull avoiding saying that loud. Every theory that doesn't take that into account is void.

Need a new theory or even more speculation? Ok, here is another one...

[Dr. Hatschi's theory]
Assumption: Adam Kowalczyk does have access to the OS4-sources (As has been mentioned by different people).

From the 25 Q&A with McEwen we know that Amiga Inc. believes that the "buy-back clause" has been activated by which they would acquire the work done by Hyperion on it. Amiga Inc's plan is to move OS-development "back in-house".
Hyperion refuses to transfer the work back to Amiga Inc., or at least only agrees to transfer OS4 back with the minimal feature-set of 2003 (as outlined in the OS4-contract).

Hyperion isn't able to move forward without Amiga Inc., since they are not allowed to port OS4 to platforms not mentioned in the OS4-contract (e.g. SAM). They are dependent on Amiga Inc's consent. Amiga Inc. however uses unrealistic terms during licensing negotiations that the "hardware manufacturers" are unable to agree upon. Effectively, they are blocking any "new hardware" licensing, because Hyperion refuses to transfer the current OS4-sources to them.

Ok, back to the beginning, Amiga Inc. manages to show Adam (who has access to the sources) proof of having executed the buy-back and having rights to the OS4-sources. Hence, Adam comes to the conclusion that making a deal with Amiga Inc. by offering them the OS4-sources is the only way to move forward without having to wait until Amiga Inc's and Hyperion's lawyers have settled the dispute (which might have taken ages). For several reasons Amiga Inc. needs a "positive" news release as quickly as possible (fill out the blanks), hence the rushed "news"-release we are commenting on in this thread. It doesn't contain any details yet, because they are either still unknown or haven't been agreed upon.
[/Dr. Hatschi's theory]

The usual disclaimer: I hope I am wrong on this.

Last edited by hatschi on 25-Apr-2007 at 04:22 PM.

@Dr.hatschi

Not bad, it's the most believable theory, atleast until we hear anything
from Hyperion or Acube.

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

Quote:

Amiga Inc. manages to show Adam (who has access to the sources) proof of having executed the buy-back and having rights to the OS4-sources. Hence, Adam comes to the conclusion that making a deal with Amiga Inc. by offering them the OS4-sources

Bit of nosense: you are calling Adam a thief, aren't you? Even if he has access to the sources, he cannot do whatever he wants with them, let alone offer it to a third party. If, as you say, Amiga has bought back the rights on the sources, that would be a very silly thing to do by Adam, don't you think so?

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

_________________
Amiga user since 1988
AOS4 Betatester
Member of ATO Spain
A1 Cfg
OS4 SCR
A1200

@Ferry

There seems to be a basic misunderstanding: What I have posted above was only speculation on "how it could have happened". I am not saying that it "did happen like that" and I am most certainly not calling anybody a thief. Just like Sneaky, I think I have clearly indicated that it's nothing but wild guessing while we are waiting for more details.

Quote:

Even if he has access to the sources, he cannot do whatever he wants with them, let alone offer it to a third party.

Maybe I could have worded it better, but I thought of this: *If* Amiga Inc. has exercised the buyback to move OS4 "in-house", they would gain legal access to the OS4-source as I understand. Does it really matter *how* they get access to it? *shrug*

well, Bill seems to have taken all you naive souls closer to the edge of fruitless anticipation than ever before with this release.

prepared to be brought back down to Earth with a MASSIVE bump. You will never see any hardware for AOS4.

Interesting.

We're still here. ;)

_________________
Sam

Quote:

Bit of nosense: you are calling Adam a thief, aren't you? Even if he has access to the sources, he cannot do whatever he wants with them, let alone offer it to a third party. If, as you say, Amiga has bought back the rights on the sources, that would be a very silly thing to do by Adam, don't you think so?

I don't think he is calling Adam a thief but is Hyperion. Either AInc is trying to steal OS4 from Hyperion or the other way around. Until the lawyers staiten it out we are in speculation mode.

@stew

Quote:

Until the lawyers staiten it out we are in speculation mode.

Are there any modes we could use -other- than speculation mode?

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

Quote:

Does it really matter *how* they get access to it?

Yes, absolutely.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

_________________
Amiga user since 1988
AOS4 Betatester
Member of ATO Spain
A1 Cfg
OS4 SCR
A1200

Quote:

Hardware and OS development costs money and if they really launch a product there's gonna compete with (or shut down) OS4 I think they will be hit real hard economically as I doubt it will sell much in or outside of the Amiga community.

You are overlooking the very lucrative T-shirt market

You know the one where you order the high end $1500 system and then one day if you are really lucky you may get a T-shirt in the post.

I do hope that if there is really hardware out there that you can buy it from a *reputable* dealer and not send any money directly to Amiga Inc !

The latter do not have a good record when it comes to supplying the goods you pay for.


Bill

Quote:

Either AInc is trying to steal OS4 from Hyperion or the other way around.

No. Either part thinks, when interpreting contract clauses, it has the truth on its side, so a judge will have to determine who is right, or they will have to reach an agreement. It's just business.

Quote:

Until the lawyers staiten it out we are in speculation mode.

Some speculations border on rudeness...

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

_________________
Amiga user since 1988
AOS4 Betatester
Member of ATO Spain
A1 Cfg
OS4 SCR
A1200

@hatty
Quote:

well, Bill seems to have taken all you naive souls closer to the edge of fruitless anticipation than ever before with this release. prepared to be brought back down to Earth with a MASSIVE bump. You will never see any hardware for AOS4.

If only there were someone with the knowledge and power great enough to guide is into the light and save us from ourselves. Oh how I pray for someone to save our naive souls from these hideous monsters trying to ship a simple computer system for us to purchase.

_________________
ExecSG Team Lead

@Ferry
Quote:

Either part thinks, when interpreting contract clauses, it has the truth on its side, so a judge will have to determine who is right, or they will have to reach an agreement.

Absolutely, I only thought that was a given (referring to Hyperions follow-up statement to the 25 Q&A). Otherwise it would be just foolish of Hyperion to dispute the exertion of the buy-back.

You have only listed two possibilities:
a) a judge has to determine who is right (which could take ages!)
b) they reach an agreement without judges, i.e. by talks between their attorneys

But there is a third possibility when b) doesn't lead to an agreement:
The company who believes it has the most financial power (and thus often the best attorneys) and who can take a chance without putting at risk the company's existence could just "go for it" and move forward without an agreement. Would it make more financial sense to wait until an international lawsuit has been settled? Maybe not.
There are many cases where small, especially privately-owned companies just can't risk an international lawsuit against a "larger" company that is backed with more funds/investors.

The ideal situation would probably be some sort of "cease-fire co-existence", Amiga Inc with ACK and Hyperion with ACube.

Last edited by hatschi on 25-Apr-2007 at 11:53 PM.
Last edited by hatschi on 25-Apr-2007 at 11:47 PM.

Quote:

Oh how I pray for someone to save our naive souls from these hideous monsters trying to ship a simple computer system for us to purchase.

I just want to get some new hardware out there to the people. Hardware for OS4 to run OS4. It's really no simpler than that. No hidden agenda, just something people can buy from the ever shrinking list of Amiga retailers that's officially supported by Amiga Inc. Period.

ACK