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Quote: Quote: but cannot one ''change'' what their environment looks like to a certain extent? Customise and personalise it to their own needs, wants and desires? Well, according to some posters that's actually a problem and not a desirable feature. I guess these are the kind of people who rely on local livestock to wake them up in the morning, because customizing the alarm clock for their local timezone is hard to do.

Bah. Nobody even indicated that customizing could be problem or anything like that. But me and few others who don't use pink eye-glasses every time they read about Amiga, pointed out that customization possibility should not to be the "final" answer to default look of OS4.1 (like we saw it on the screenshots from official announcement).

Bah. Nobody said the shown default theme is perfect or anything like that. But me and few others who don't systematically use malicious gossip every time something comes out about Amiga, pointed that this is a matter of taste, and that usability should not be the final answer because usability is somehow context dependant (i.e. today's usability rules are different from yesterday's ones and will certainly be different from the one of tomorrow, else there will never be progress, and you would not have something like an IPhone...).

Also I'm not sure anyone said that what we saw on the screenshots will be the exact 1:1 default OS4.1 theme, on the contrary I take them as illustrations of what is depicted in the side text, and might well be over exaggerated values compared to default ones just to make it well apparent. What would have been the point of snapshoting square edged poaque windows when announcing the new graphic composting engine capable of alpha blending and shaped windows ?

Last edited by abalaban on 17-Jul-2008 at 08:46 AM.

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AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

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usability is somehow context dependant (i.e. today's usability rules are different from yesterday's ones and will certainly be different from the one of tomorrow, else there will never be progress, and you would not have something like an IPhone...).

there are also some general rules that are quite time-persistent like readability - check Leo's first point about Amidock labels for example.


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Also I'm not sure anyone said that what we saw on the screenshots will be the exact 1:1 default OS4.1 theme

Rogue:
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The look is not customized at all because it is supposed to show what things look like after a standard installation.

Sure, things can get changed before official release and this is also reason why we keep writing posts like that. It is not about discouraging developers nor run down their work.

Last edited by ExiE on 17-Jul-2008 at 10:20 AM.

I agree about the need to limit font number other than that everything else is a matter of taste. For example I hate the XP default theme, not to speak about the Vista one, I really find the style childish and very unprofessionnal but that's my own taste and it does not seem to bother M$ very much nor prevent them from selling thousand copies a day...

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Sure, things can get changed before official release and this is also reason why we keep writing posts like that. It is not about discouraging developers nor run down their work.

If it's not to discourage developers then saying it one time is enough, no need to come back to it again and again. Even better offer your service and manage the "issues" *privately* if authors are interested, another way can also be to *privately* email a beta tester in order that he feedback your opinion. That would really be more constructive, at least IMHO.

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AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

First of all, I would like to thank all of you for giving me some rather amusing reading, if laughter is the best medicine, then I am obviously much better now!

Now, I have to say... Come on guys! You bitch when there is nothing to look at, (SOME do, that is) then... turn right around and bitch again when something, (which is QUITE obviously a ''work in progress'') is shown to you!

You can't have your cake and eat it too!

There is a saying in my industry, which applies anywhere, "À chacun son goût" or Each to their taste. I am not going to force the Fire-Roasted Corn Chowder on you if you would rather have the Cheddar Broccoli Soup... or maybe just a green salad. You get what you want, and, if I have the ingredients, I'll even do something else for you. That's called choice, and as far as I can see, that is what AOS4.1 is offering to you. A chance to make what you want with it.

After all, some people actually LIKE Cottage Cheese.

Giving feedback is essential to the people who are creating which will be, ultimately, YOUR OS. And so you should. But just smacking at it isn't really helpful, in my opinion. And it also means the people responsible are LESS likely to give you more screen shots. Why should they, if all you do is moan about how it isn't how YOU like it?

So, cheers to the team creating this, I raise a glass of something nice to you.

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¤¤ Official Hyperion Zealot ¤¤

(No, I didn't type that with a straight face.)

Well, after these kind of remarks, either you ignore them, either you take note and try to improve things for the next annoucement...

Again, it's supposed to make things better... While "dancing bananas" may be important to keep developers' motivation at a certain level, it won't make the product any better unfortunately... This kind of posts are supposed to make things better... Is it so bad ?

And again, it's not about taste, but about usability, and global presentation...

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http://www.warpdesign.fr/

Some of the comments are just silly. But that's what I think about some people in this community as well. You can't say what's wrong or be happy about it, you have to complain page up and page down about something that doesn't matter. It would've mattered if you would just've said what you thought once.

And no, the desing isn't *that* bad, you haven't seen the final product and you can change the GUI if there's something you don't like. That's part of what's so great about AOS 4.

I don't see the big problem... geeeee.

@Sundown

I quite like that scheme.

I don't like basketball though, so perhaps you could redo that screenshot with football on instead?

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If your nose runs and your feet smell, you're upside down.

Because I criticized this as well, I think I have to say more.

It's not that you can change the GUI yourself. But it's all about the first impression what people will get. For example, if people thinks "it's looking like something from yesterday, naah it's not cool, I'll move on." But if they'll think: "Oh ! It looks more cool than Winblows Visva. What's this Amiga. How they made it to look more cool than Visva. I want really to have a chance to test it myself."

It's sad there have been so much mud slinging in past years so people takes all criticism personally and thinks it's against them. (Or at least it looks so.)

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Sure, things can get changed before official release and this is also reason why we keep writing posts like that. It is not about discouraging developers nor run down their work.

Yes.

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that is what AOS4.1 is offering to you. A chance to make what you want with it.

Good note. And it's very good and important you can do what ever you want.

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judging a OS based on a configurable UI is not very intelligent

I don't think anybody's doing that.

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Did any of you UI whiners even bother to read the announcment? I would think the prospect of running FireFox3, OpenOffice, Blender, & other open source apps on os4 would be more important then ripping apart the sample pictures. I know reading the feature list is harder to do then looking at pictures, but please try.

It's obvious that all those features are very very important. But why say the obvious thing !?

And this is a discussion forum where people can say what they want. This is not a place where when a single person have said something nobody else can't say the same again.

We want to make the perfect even more perfect !

I just can't wait to get it to my hands !

@umisef
I won't quote your whole post #200, but I think you're a little bit exaggerating. (And not just a little bit.) Btw. Do you think that AmigaOS4.1 is like Yehudi Menuhin playing Stradivarius ? Then it's have to be the most perfect one from all the perfect ones, I'll guess.

Last edited by Tomppeli on 17-Jul-2008 at 12:58 PM.

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Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

I saw the shots, noticed a lot of usability problems (in addition to it being ugly.. but maybe that's a matter of taste yes ;)). So, as I'm not here to whine, I explained why I said that, and how things could be improved. And it seems I haven't got the right to do that. Now if there is a problem, it is the fact that people don't seem to accept negative stuff, even though it's written to improve things...

Anyway, I won't add anything...

Add **dancing bananas** here... ;)

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http://www.warpdesign.fr/

The screenshots sure do look pretty bad, but then again, that might not be a problem. It's all about who you want to sell your product to. If Hyperion are satisfied with all current OS4-users buying(?) the update, then there's no reason for them to waste time on making goodlooking shots, as their customers are people who are happy that they're getting a new version of their favourite OS and probably don't care for how the shots look.

But in case they want to expand the userbase, especially if it's beyond Amiga-users in general, they really really should hire someone professional to fix the appearance in the promotional screenshots. Those shots are nice for showing off new features to current users, but they do not make anyone not into amiga interested. You only have one chance in making a first impression.

@Umisef

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It's a bit like selling a CD of a violin concierto performed Yehudi Menuhin on a $200 Yamaha learner's violin, with the excuse of including a couple of hours use of a Stradivarius with each CD so that anyone who doesn't like the sound of the Yamaha may record their own version to their own taste....[1]

I'd buy that CD just to get my hands on the Stradivarius.

@all

To those who don't like the gray background in the screen-shots, have a look at some of the photos taken at a public demo. Look, a more colourful Amiga OS 4.1 background. I wonder which one is more likely to be the default...

The screenshots were made to show off some of the new features; I'm guessing that Rogue didn't even pay attention to the look. So you can probably understand why he'd be annoyed when the only thing that some people say is how horrible/ugly/nasty/*insert-your-own-derogatory-term-here* the theme is. No doubt they will be looking at what people say is wrong, but only a few (e.g., Leo) have actually said what it is that they think needs improving.

Is the theme really such a big deal?

Hans

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http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Britelite
Quote:

But in case they want to expand the userbase, especially if it's beyond Amiga-users in general, they really really should hire someone professional to fix the appearance in the promotional screenshots. Those shots are nice for showing off new features to current users, but they do not make anyone not into amiga interested. You only have one chance in making a first impression.

Really? I'm sure that many ex-Amiga users wouldn't care too much about the default theme either. Moreover, I'd expect that most people to see this announcement (here, on OS news, or somewhere else) will also see the press-release when OS 4.1 is available.

Hans

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http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

I really hope to be able to use AmigaOS 4.1 and an AmigaOne or a new PPC-Amiga system.
AmigaOS 4.1 really seems to be something amazing! Some complains about the default look of the GUI-system, but since it's ungoing some beta-testing, i believe that things are still improving...

As i see it, there is no nothing much that is lacking in AmigaOS 4.1. 2 very important things remain, and they are the Open-Source Java-implement and of course OpenGL 3 (the very latest version)..

Keep up the excellent work, Hyperion Entertainment! This is a REAL punch in the face to Amiga Inc...

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Helge K. Leaving the Amiga in favour of a PC..

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I won't quote your whole post #200, but I think you're a little bit exaggerating. (And not just a little bit.)

Why? The dock labels in the screenshot are poor, plain and simple. Some of the other fonts/colour combinations do not work, either. Why is that? Is it (a) because OS4.1 can't do any better, (b) because the guy who set up the screenshot can't do any better, or (c) because the guy who set up the screenshot didn't care?

Now, if it was me who was "the guy", the answer (about at least some screwups) would be (b). Everybody says "You should not complain, because (a) is not the problem". Well, that's great --- but for the official screenshots in the official press release, neither (b) nor (c) should be a problem, either, and if either one of those *is* a problem *now*, it does not bode well for when it is released. And then no amount of (a) being no problem won't help klutzes like me....

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Btw. Do you think that AmigaOS4.1 is like Yehudi Menuhin playing Stradivarius

Take my comments strictly in the context of visual appearance of included-with-the-OS GUI themes, and you'll be on the safe side --- seeing as that was the context I made them in.

To all you who think that people discussing OS4.1's GUI are ungrateful ####s!.....Is it wrong to dream about Amiga GUI world domination????

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On Planet Boing Trevor is God

Hi @Paul

Love the gold theme. . . not sure about the green background you have in that link, though.
Which of the Lorraine AmiWaves do you like? Just replace the background picture and window pattern. The GoldWB was always available at YahooGroups.

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@all

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Britelite wrote: The screenshots sure do look pretty bad, but then again, that might not be a problem. It's all about who you want to sell your product to. If Hyperion are satisfied with all current OS4-users buying(?) the update, then there's no reason for them to waste time on making goodlooking shots, as their customers are people who are happy that they're getting a new version of their favourite OS and probably don't care for how the shots look. But in case they want to expand the userbase, especially if it's beyond Amiga-users in general, they really really should hire someone professional to fix the appearance in the promotional screenshots. Those shots are nice for showing off new features to current users, but they do not make anyone not into amiga interested. You only have one chance in making a first impression.

Who they want to sell to is irrelevant. Who they can sell to is all they have. Since they have not felt safe enough to just release OS 4.x on SAM and Mac Mini PPC in light of the court case their userbase is static at best. There are a certain amount of AmigaOnes. Some break here and there, others get fixed here and there, but it stays at less than 1000. I suspect that they can count on a good percentage of those people upgrading regardless. If they ever feel comfortable enough to release to more hardware, either from winning the court case, or just throwing caution to the wind then I suspect the marketing effort will be stepped up a notch or two. In the meantime there is little reason to bother. If Amiga wins the case this OS might soon be thrown into a shallow grave anyway. For a small hobby OS, which is what it is, they've done a great job in creation and in marketing, and kudos to them for continuing development at all when the future of the OS is so uncertain.

As for the comments about only having one chance to make a first impression with non-Amiga users. Lets be frank, how many non-Amiga users even know this OS exists, let alone care if they found out it did at this point. There is nothing to run it on. Even a very big computer geek will laugh "whats the point" when he finds out there is no way for him to run the OS.

And as for the comment that they should hire a professional to fix the appearance in the promotional screenshots, no professional is going to work for free. How much money do you think there is to go around in such a venture considering how little profit there is to be made. You already have the programmers to pay something, Hyperion management needs to earn something. Acube needs to earn something distributing it. What chicken feed would be left for yet another mouth to feed?

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Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

I am not a professional... and offered my help... for what it's worth...

Nobody ever talked about hiring someone. Nor does anyone ever said it was for promotionnal screenshots... but for the default look/skin, which, it's true, is likely to appear in promotionnal screenshots...

Last edited by Leo on 17-Jul-2008 at 08:03 PM.

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http://www.warpdesign.fr/

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The GoldWB was always available at YahooGroups.

Right. I got it there a L O N G time ago, back when the backdrops included were all goldish/brownish shades with no pattern, just light to dark fades. In fact, I think it was when you first released the theme and asked for input. Been using it ever since.

This was the first time I had seen the wave in ANY color. Just a personal preference thing.

If there are any changes in OS 4.1, I hope you have this theme ready to go quickly after 4.1 is out.

Paul

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Builder of Frankenthousand, the monster A1000
The Young Frankenthousand A1-XE G4
X5000