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hardware OS4   hardware OS4 : Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue's PS3 Instant Bounty
   posted by DiscreetFX on 25-Sep-2008 2:45:34 (14939 reads)
Chicago, Illinois – September 24th, 2008 - For Immediate Release

Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX

This months Seeding the Success Campaign is going to be a little different. The winner is Rogue from Hyperion Entertainment for all his hard work on Amiga OS 4.1. He will of course get $100 but instead of Paypaling money we have set-up a Instant Bounty for him to receive a Sony PS3. We read with great interest in the recent Ars Technica interview that a port of Amiga OS 4.1 to PS3 had been seriously considered. We then read with sadness a comment from Rogue on aw.net that he did not have a PS3 and could not experiment on doing a port without one.
(Read more)


So getting Rogue a PS3 is the focus of Amiga Seeding the Success this month, We need your help though since Sony's PS3 is $399 plus tax and shipping and we have contributed only $100 of that. Once the goal of $399 plus shipping/tax is reached we will close this Instant Bounty and purchase/ship a PS3 to the address Rogue provides us. We expect this to be a fast and easy bounty so one of the lead OS 4.1 developers can have a PS3 in his possession quickly. Please watch for the following URL to be on-line in the next 3-4 hours for donations to this Bounty.

RoguePS3

DiscreetFX has always strongly believed in OS 4.0/4.1 for the PS3 and has mentioned that to Hyperion many times. Hopefully this Bounty effort with your help can bring us one step closer to making it happen . The PS3 is already very Amiga like and even has one of the creators of the Amiga working on it (R J Mical). Sony's PS3 has millions of owners, many of which used to own an Amiga. Amiga OS 4.1 on PS3 would help expand and re-legitimize the Amiga brand, even if you own a SAM440, AmigaOne or mystery OS 4.1 box. More ways to run OS 4.1 will benefit users and developers. DiscreetFX believes in doing what it can to help make modern Amiga & Amiga like systems successful.

Best regards

- DiscreetFX Team

    

STORYID: 4544
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PosterThread
Turrican3 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 11:55:06
#21 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 357
From: Italy

I'm not sure getting a "standard", off the shelf PS3 console is enough to start developing a (IMHO) yet-to-be-classified-as-speculation port of OS4.

I mean, isn't a proper, full PS3 devkit needed to perform such a task?!

(I may be completely wrong of course, feel free to correct me if that's the case)

Last edited by Turrican3 on 25-Sep-2008 at 11:55 AM.

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Jupp3 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 11:58:27
#22 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

Quote:
Even if the gfx performance is poor on the PS3 it should be usable in 2D.

Remember that it doesn't "only affect 3D", but 2D aswell. Which means that on linux (with "normal" video players) you can play SD resolution material. In a window. Scaling it to even 720p kills performance. It's way too slow with the framebuffer.

But indeed the idea of Sony allowing OS4 (but no other operating systems) run "unrestricted" is rather... "interesting"

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amitv 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 12:48:19
#23 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Posts: 346
From: Unknown

Bounty for hardware mac

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Speedy 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 12:57:19
#24 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Nov-2006
Posts: 117
From: Denmark

I'm sure if he lives in europe. And get's a US PS3. He can't run anything but imports. Hehe.

If he can say ANY words that he be interested in making OS4.1 a reality on PS3. Then i'll support it.

Too many bounties never get anywhere on amiga these days. So i would have to be convinced.

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vision 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 13:16:16
#25 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2005
Posts: 480
From: Unknown

@ALL

Sorry, but I find this a really SILLY idea. For many reasons:

Sony does NOT allow full access to the hardware AND NEVER WILL. It is not because linux devs are not cool enough for them, or something like that. It is a SECURITY issue: Allowing to a full control of the hardware would require to open the encription, and Sony doesn´t want the information of the protection gets compromised.

In wich department does RJ Mical work? Sony is big corporation, it is so innocent suppose he even could contribute on something, not even speaking about the legal issues or the working time required....

And talking about the hardware, it is also funny/incredible/ridiculous the path some want for unexplicable reasons:

- Amiga OS is a very eficient resource-computing and memory consumer. Why should we need 6 mini-cpus?. Our problem is NOT getting a quicker CPU, but getting a better system that allow us to run better and more ambitious applications (for 3D, video, music, etc..), wich drives me to the next point

- What kind of apps would benefit from a 256 MB system (the other 256MB are for graphics), and NO POSSIBILITY OF EXPANSION?? 3D? what kind of serious renders can you do with 256 mb?; Video? try editing with that; Music? yeah, what a professional connections for good stuff! Games? awesome ones, software rendered!

- NO DVD BURNER, NO MEMORY UPGRADING, NO GRAPHICS UPGARDING (a nvidia 7800 is not even up to the latest generation even right now), AND TOTALLY CLOSED SYSTEM. Wow, what a solution for our hardware expandabilty problems!

- I honestly think you are just BLINDED, by the "coolness" factor that $ony tintroduced in your brains, and didn´t even think of where seriously could we go with a system like that.

Sometimes I think we kind of deserve our fate, cause we are ruled by people who doesnt have neither vision nor ambition to drive the platform in the right direction to DO SOMETHING with it more than "play with the OS"

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Interesting 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 13:19:22
#26 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1812
From: a place & time long long ago, when things mattered.

Quote:
Or it could mean that Hyperion Entertainment and Sony enter into an NDA agreement via RJ, you never know what the future may hold. We are not looking for any rules to be broken because of our gesture for Rogue. Maybe he will get it and have some coding fun.


A very nice thought but until "Hyperion management" funds the project, and a contract to port is done nothing will happen. Remember the twins are "contractors"to Hyperion.

I can't find the link that was recently posted by HJF. Said to the effect: To write up a business plan .....etc.

Last edited by Interesting on 25-Sep-2008 at 01:57 PM.


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MikeB 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 13:40:22
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@ Vision

Quote:
What kind of apps would benefit from a 256 MB system (the other 256MB are for graphics), and NO POSSIBILITY OF EXPANSION?


AmigaOS4 runs on 64 MB Classic systems, the PS3 has a harddrive for virtual memory.

Linux running OpenOffice.org and Firefox on the PS3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvf6y2BQ1io

Quote:
video


Out of the box the PS3 is an amazing media player, but the above youtube video also demonstrates Linux playing video well.

Quote:
3D? what kind of serious renders can you do with 256 mb?


Reatlime PS3 Ray Tracing using the Cell on Linux:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B2-9rNBvIg

Last edited by MikeB on 25-Sep-2008 at 04:40 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 25-Sep-2008 at 01:42 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 25-Sep-2008 at 01:41 PM.

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ruben 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 13:52:47
#28 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 364
From: Portugal

PS3 port would be interesting, but I doubt that 300 bucks is the only thing preventing Hyperion to commit to the port.

This is Hyperion's call at this point folks, we can't force them into anything.

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Speedy 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 14:11:28
#29 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Nov-2006
Posts: 117
From: Denmark

But we could tempt em :P

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hardwired 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 14:25:17
#30 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2007
Posts: 106
From: Portugal - Gaia

@vision

I think that you're the one that's slightly blinded by the limitations of the PS3... They're just a bonus.

Like I said, I don't think that the availability of AmigaOS 4.1 for PS3 will sell PS3 (based on that factor - at least it would be negligible).
The truth is that for the WORLD the Amiga is dead or or something equal (Check my post on the promotion of SAM400 and OS4.1). And the idea is to promote AmigaOS 4.1.

And let's face it a lot of PS3 geeks suddenly tried to install some form of linux on to the PS3, to get something out of the machine. And common comments we're not on the performance of PS3 linux itself (it came afterwards for some earlier versions) but the installation and configuration of some aspects (such as network, audio and even video).
The limitations of the PS3 alone mean that the real amiga user will not satisfied with a PS3 AmigaOS 4.1 crippled software, but common user might get real satisfation over the linux clones available.

So you get a promotion of a brand and the assurance for users to adpot the AmigaOS 4.1, for better platforms - full computer with real expandibility, knowing that AmigaOS 4.1 is not closed to this/that machine in particular.
In fact it would be great to have AROS for it as well (but there's little enthusiasm at the moment from the devs)...

For my part I'm not thinking on buying a PS3, and having AmigaOS 4.1 for it would probably not change my mind. But the availability of that for a large consumer product does give some assurance and credibility on a (post commodore days) obscure brand.

@Ruben

I do agree with you - It's up to Hyperion to actually decide if there is business and marketing oportunity in there or not.

For my part I believe it's a marketing oportunity that might boost business if well conducted, either by hyperion and by other mannufacturers. Sony PS3 is a very low end product from my point of view - it serves the Demoing of AmigaOS 4.1 capabilities to the general public - want more? get samXXX / Amixxx or whatever sexy piece of HW comes our way with an Amiga spirit embebed...

But that's MHO - nothing more.


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Rogue 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 15:05:02
#31 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

My gosh, I was out of the loop for 24 hours and see this when I get back.

As I pointed out every time I was offered hardware, I do feel uncomfortable with that as it creates a commitment that I might not be able to keep. This was the case with U-Boot support, and it certainly applies to a PS 3 as well.

It's not that I mind getting a PS 3 (I have been a fan of Gran Turismo ever since part one) but please bear in mind that there is not going to be any change in Hyperion's plans because of this. When I said "I would like to port OS 4 to the thing", I meant this purely for testing reasons. I do not see a PS 3 version of AmigaOS 4.x in the forseeable future. I already said it is not my decision, and it isn't me the needs convincing but rather the Hyperion management, and I am very sure they won't consider it for the reasons I have stated in the past - I do not think that Sony will lift the restrictions for guest OS'es on the PS 3 for any project, so I am still quite convinced that this would be rather sluggish to use.

So please, if you really want to do this, know that apart from playing Gran Turismo, it is very likely that nothing comes out of this. I might or might not find the time to experiment with porting AmigaOS to it (pretty unlikely seeing how much work there still is), but it will not change the facts that Hyperion management have already rejected the idea of a PS 3 port.

I am sorry to disappoint everyone (especially those that already donated).


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ssolie 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 15:06:15
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2755
From: Alberta, Canada

@itix
Quote:
I can already hear RJ asking "where is the chipset emulation"...

How about you let RJ speak for himself. I've emailed him in the past and I doubt he would be so antagonistic.


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ne_one 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 15:09:31
#33 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 900
From: Unknown

As a platform for experimentation and a nice shot in the arm this isn't a bad idea.

However, if anyone genuinely thinks this is going to lead to something real they may want to consider that Amiga may need to be involved. Just a hunch though.

FWIW, I'd vote for a Mac Mini for the short term.

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abalaban 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 15:29:51
#34 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Oct-2004
Posts: 1109
From: France

@all

OMG Are you all completely mad or what ???
Giving Rogue a PS3 ? And then he will play games instead of coding for our OS
Please, please please don't do that ! Instead consider rewarding its commitment for his spare time projects (see http://www.friedenhq.org/) it might make him spend even more spare time on such projects (did I heard blender ? )


_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

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hardwired 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 15:40:55
#35 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2007
Posts: 106
From: Portugal - Gaia

@ne_one
Isn't Mac mini PPC been discontinued?!
Even for a niche market, it poses problems similar to amigaone.

If the idea is to have it on a more global consumer market product for promotion, then PS3 still is a better idea... Though I wouldn't rule out completely a mac port of AmigaOS4.1 - just depends on the overall marketing and promotion strategy.

It has to be more than just "the amiga users who have a mac" sole factor!...

@rogue

It's a shame that Hyperion's management has ruled out PS3 completely out of the picture, but the pointed reasons have some valid points. Still the way I see it it's not as having a full AmigaOS 4.1 completely using the available HW on the PS3(that would be wonderful), but rather a promotion/marketing tool - like i said before.

ALAS - that said I hope good HW becomes available to the public, in order to run AmigaOS 4.1...


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MikeB 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 15:53:41
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@ Rogue

I hope Hyperion one day gets new management if that's the main roadblock...

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croquemitaine 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 16:01:46
#37 ]
Member
Joined: 22-Jul-2006
Posts: 42
From: Aurillac france

considering that work will be yours,in a matter of hours spent you are right.
But you will agree ,i hope,that a ps3 is no more than a restrained computer.

It's not a video game anymore because of price and power.
Is it up to hyperion to do that work?
Well look at this:
rocklyte


EDIT:
Too big image, make a thumbnail of it perhaps? // MOD NOTE!
Mod's note: Fixed ~ Yo.

Last edited by Yo on 25-Sep-2008 at 05:33 PM.
Last edited by zerohero on 25-Sep-2008 at 05:20 PM.

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madmalkav 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 16:35:55
#38 ]
Member
Joined: 19-May-2006
Posts: 88
From: Unknown

Probably, to get out of the Other OS restriction that are currently applying to free OS on PS3, Hyperion must enter an agreement with Sony, similar to game publishing licenses. I don't know if A) Hyperion tried and Sony said no or gave unfavourable conditions, or B) Hyperion didn't tried it. Anyway, hope that will change in the future.

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vision 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 17:06:31
#39 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2005
Posts: 480
From: Unknown

@MikeB

Thinking on disk-swapping even before the system exists?, wowwwww COOL!!

But if you wanna talk about linux on the ps3, at least say it all:

The truth about Linux on the PlayStation 3 (pathetic)
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=nUviUfYMihM&feature=related

And I was speaking about *EDITING* video (remember that thing? ....in which the Amiga used to be the world champion?), not just playing a simple movie

And talking about realtime raytracing:

Realtime raytracing demo (for pc):
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=J5QJ-cG4ZBU&feature=related

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=bfO2hVGiz6M
"Option" 64kb intro by potion with realtime raytracing on Amiga

http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showcontent&file=demo/misc/rayrace.lha
"Rayrace" realtime raytracing engine for Amiga


Sorry, but showiness videos are not a real proof of computing power (specially for everyday tasks)

But if you still not believe me, argue also against Rogue:

Rogue Quote:
I do not think that Sony will lift the restrictions for guest OS'es on the PS 3 for any project, so I am still quite convinced that this would be rather sluggish to use.


So sorry for you.

Last edited by vision on 25-Sep-2008 at 05:10 PM.
Last edited by vision on 25-Sep-2008 at 05:09 PM.

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Shadowolf 
Re: Amiga Seeding the Success Campaign from DiscreetFX Rogue
Posted on 25-Sep-2008 17:54:01
#40 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Mar-2005
Posts: 137
From: Germany

@Rouge

I donated and I would not be disappointed at all if nothing solid comes out of it.

I see this merely as an opportunity to give you something interesting to play with, maybe it pays off, maybe it does not.

Have fun!

It's not like I went into a store rightaway and bought a PS/3 myself in hope it would get OS4 in the foreseeable future.

The ArsTechnica "review" is pretty strange though, one wonders where the guy got his "facts" from.

Last edited by Shadowolf on 25-Sep-2008 at 06:22 PM.

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