>he's unlucky about the both OS flavours that are not 68k and are not
>AROS as well. Another thing MorphOS and AmigaOS 4.x have in common ...

I doesn't know if any of his source ever got into AROS. He is using AROS sourcecode to improve AOS3.x.
AFA_OS4 adds some of the GUI features you may have seen on AOS4. But in reality Bernd is an AOS4 fans, yes really he wants to have the code of AOS4 ( not MOS nor AROS ) so he can port it to 68k for WinUAE.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@bernd_afa

Quote:

>MorphOS then THIS kind of people are very eager to get hold of this ported sources, no, they release it, here you can see the source from netsurf, itix/chris do(in dir MUI/amiga).netsurf have a implement amiga like GUI, the firefox the friedens do have not amiga GUI. ... snip ...

Um, you do realize that the original port to Amiga OS 4 (and 3, IIRC), was done by ChrisY, not Itix don't you? The MorphOS port came later. The Amiga OS code can be found in the main trunk: http://source.netsurf-browser.org/trunk/netsurf/.

I think that you should stop trying to discredit the Friedens and their work, and go and do something constructive instead.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hans Quote:

I think that you should stop trying to discredit the Friedens and their work, and go and do something constructive instead.

Totally agree! In fact, he might like to take note that is what the Friedens do: Work on constructive things (making software), rather than moaning about other people on forums.

Last edited by ChrisH on 05-Oct-2009 at 10:35 AM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@sam
>>But will it be useable? It is very very slow, even on the fastest x86 HW, so could it fly on 667Mhz?

>I have the latest version here running on a 'lowly' 1.66Ghz Atom based eeepc with a basic Intel 945 integrated video card and it zooms along. It is very usable so I see no reason why it cannot be the same on OS4.1.

1.66Ghz Atom is several times faster than PPC440 @ 667Mhz AND it has multimedia instructions.

But anyway, we'll see. Perhaps Amiga makes it possible again.

@jupp3

Yeah, Ambient is open source, but MUI4 for AOS4 is needed first.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

I wrote Quote:

No, it is call "friendly competition". MOS has a Blender port & Sputnik that AROS & OS4 (currently) does not have. Why can't OS4 have a Firefox port that MOS & AROS do not have? Competition is GOOD, as long as it is not "cuthroat stab-you-in-the-back" competition AKA "war".

BTW, please don't misinterpret this as me supporting the idea that a MOS/AROS app should never run on OS4, or vice versa. I do think cooperation should be encouraged where possible, to save reinventing the wheel.

But in the case of major apps (e.g. Firefox, Blender, etc) which are large programs that require massive amounts of OS support to run well, it is unrealistic to expect that people will always want to share the huge effort they put into their favourite platform. In that case we have to accept that friendly competition is the best (but not ideal) solution.

However, I still think it is a pity that OWB did not share code between different Amiga-like OSes, because it seems simple enough that sharing MIGHT have been possible. (But I don't know the code, so I could be totally wrong.)

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@bernd_afa

I've been following this thread and I think I know the reason for your arguments, and the solution to the problem:

You are simply jealous of OS4 and the people having it because you don't have it (yet) and that you will be left without TimberWolf when others will have it!

The solution for you is to simply get OS4 and an OS4 capable machine (such as Sam440, Pegasos-II or AmigaOne). Then you can finally leave OS3 behind you and move on into enlightment like many of the rest of us have already done

(@all OS3 users)

Expensive..?!
Well, considering the amount of money people spend on other hobbies and interests, it's not that expensive.
Some examples..:
How many bought a flat screen TV lately?
- Price between 1x to 2x the price of a Sam.

How many have bought a HiFi system?
- Price between 1x to 5x the price of a Sam.

How many bought other stuff relating to other hobbies, interests, sports etc?
- Price between 1x to ?x the price of a Sam.

My story: I have just discovered the thrill of downhill bicycling. That's an expensive sport I bought my first bike last spring and it was ridiculously cheap, only ¤370. The front fork had to be replaced though, and some other stuff: ¤340. This summer that old rear suspension broke: ¤180. And of course I had to get protection and helmet and stuff: ¤150. Sum: ¤1040, and there have only been 6 month since I started...

Since this was a mediocre bike and I clearly spend too little on that front fork which I max out every ride I will most likely have to get a completely new bike next year if I can get a new job, and it will probably be around ¤2000.

Of course, bernd_afa and other OS3 users may be poor, or cheap, or most probably; have different priorities. But then STOP COMPLAINING! You *cannot* expect to get everything in the latest software and technilogie when you stick to old obsolete versions of an OS! It just doesn't work that way.

I know for a fact that back-porting from OS4 to OS3 or to MOS is pityful because of all lost features. (MOS has other features though, but OS3 does not.) If someone codes for OS4 (and actually also develops it) they would want to use all new cool features and not be limited by the lack of features in lower version OSes such as OS3.

_________________
- Don't get fooled by my avatar, I'm not like that (anymore, mostly... maybe only sometimes)
> Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft.

Absolutely, look at the price of so many other hobbies. I reckon I have too many hobbies but photography is one of mine. Sure, you can buy a sub-¤100 camera and snap away, printing them on your sub-¤100 printer, but if you're serious about it, you spend a bit more. My camera cost me ¤1200, along with another ¤1000 for lenses, and maybe another ¤1000 of other accessories. Then you've got the printer: ¤300-ish, plus about ¤160 for a set of ink cartridges for it which last me about 6 months. (And the printer doesn't even work with the Amiga, but that's another story!) I think, considering how cheap/free Amiga software is, as a hobby it's quite a cheap thing to buy a complete SAM system.

Another hobby might be console gaming. I have a Wii, and about 12 games. I know the Wii itself is cheap (it was ¤270 when I bought it at launch), but those 12 games were about ¤50 each, which makes for a total of ¤870 on that system, excluding extra controllers and the likes...

_________________
RobTheNerd.com | InstallerGen | SMBMounter | Atoms-X

>Cha05e90, bernd_afa attacks anything not 68k, he's not a MorphOS supporter...
@Zardoz

so please tell me, where i attack something, and its not true ?

please post a example for MOS OS4 AROS

You are a mod and when you write this, then people believe it more.
So please show what you mean as attack ?

i find it really bad fud, that there is written i want only 68k.

or answer my questions.
When i write, OS4 is not good, because it cant run dopus magellan with 32 bit Icons, but AFA can.

Is that a attack ?

I think not.

All we know, that for OS4 since long time dopus magellan is announced or not ?
And that there is nothing new dopus magellan release for OS4 in this long years is a fact and no attack.

Last edited by bernd_afa on 05-Oct-2009 at 02:54 PM.

Here i have start a thread and i get response and we all know now what a non amigian think about it.

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1516865&sid=ce64bc75255e94fd4d743a4e89a057ed

""""
As long as they comply with the MPL and necessary component licenses, I'm pretty sure that Firefox devs won't care. Its not breaking any rules or laws.

As soon as they break a license, Mozilla's legal will be all over it.
""""

>I've been following this thread and I think I know the reason for your arguments, >and the solution to the problem:

>You are simply jealous of OS4 and the people having it because you don't have it >(yet) and that you will be left without TimberWolf when others will have it!

I dont want use OS4, but what i dislike are announces that are not realize soon.

We all know marketing is all, and when a factory announce good future things the charts (German Aktien) are more buy, because buyers have better future hope.

But its in big buisness illegal to announce something that is not realize in acceptable tme, because a announce keep away to using other.maybe more support AROS /MOS/68k when there was no OS4 timberwolf and ambigous project announce.

look at the Mattel Keyboard they announce.when they delay more they need pay $10000 /Day.

"""""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellivision

Complaints from consumers who had chosen to buy the Intellivision specifically on the promise of a "Coming Soon!" personal-computer upgrade that seemed as if it would never materialize eventually caught the attention of the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), who started investigating Mattel Electronics for fraud and false advertising. Mattel said that the Keyboard Component was a real product still being test-marketed and even released a small number of Keyboard Components to a handful of retail stores, along with a handful of software titles in order to support this claim. The FTC eventually ordered Mattel to pay a $10,000/day fine until the promised computer upgrade was in full retail distribution. To protect themselves from the ongoing fines, the Keyboard Component was officially canceled in the fall of 1982 and the Entertainment Computer System (ECS) module offered up in its place.
""""""

Dont understand me wrong, i dont want say that the friedens only do Vapor announce(also there is no date tell when they should finish).


But when the firefox files are all opensource, then all can see how fast the progress is going on timberwolf Port and we can say if timberwolf come in 4 months 6 months 12 months or more.

Last edited by bernd_afa on 05-Oct-2009 at 02:38 PM.

>My camera cost me ¤1200, along with another ¤1000 for lenses, and maybe >another ¤1000 of other accessories. Then you've got the printer: ¤300-ish, plus

are there cameras out for this price that have much better technical datas or in all case better data ?

and for A OS4 system the technical datas are the CPU speed, ram you can add, 2.Level Cache size, benchmarks

and here its possible to get lots cheaper or faster HW in all technical data.only of course timberwolf can maybe in future run on OS4, but wirthout OS4 you can now run Firefox.because OS4 Version use no OS4 GUI, so its not big diffrence.

Last edited by bernd_afa on 05-Oct-2009 at 03:13 PM.
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Last edited by bernd_afa on 05-Oct-2009 at 02:59 PM.

Quote:

But when the firefox files are all opensource, then all can see how fast the progress is going on timberwolf Port and we can say if timberwolf come in 4 months 6 months 12 months or more.

As they're working on it in private, not releasing every pre-alpha repository number to public either source or binary, how would we see the progress by sources?

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@bernd_afa

Quote:

Dont understand me wrong, i dont want say that the friedens only do Vapor announce(also there is no date tell when they should finish).

Maybe you don't want to say it, but you certainly have no problem implying it.
What was the point of passing on to us the Mattel story otherwise?
Yet another attack to my mind.

Anyway, for more clarification.


From Rogue below.

http://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3207&start=40

Quote:

Right now it's "When it's Done". I'll try to qualify this a bit. What we are working on right now is 'widget'. That is the part of Mozilla/Gecko that copes with mapping to the native window system. Gecko assumes a hierarchical system where you have windows and child windows, which we don't have on AmigaOS so we need to simulate this. This has repercussions in the way that e.g. input events are handled (they need to go the "child" window). Widget is really the biggest chunk in getting the Browser to work on AmigaOS. Once that is done, most of the browser should work. Most of the browser actually DOES work already, however, it will freeze after a second or two trying to display something. We'd also like to adapt as many Amiga-specific features as possible. For example, I hope we can make the menus work like AmigaOS menus. This will mostly depend on the requirements for menus, and how much needs to be changed within the system to get this to work. Early versions might work without such features and go for the plain stuff. All in all, we hope to have an alpha version by the end of the year. HOPE because for one thing we cannot really predict the amount of work left and what kind of problems are still there, and also because the MAP ("most ambitious project") is taking up a lot of time, and will do so even more in the coming weeks, meaning Timberwolf will be going down in terms of time spend on it. Hope this answers it a bit. As it is now, we cannot give any firm commitment to a date, since all of this is a hobby project, and I have ArmA II installed on my PC as well

_________________
If your nose runs and your feet smell, you're upside down.

>What was the point of passing on to us the Mattel story otherwise?
>Yet another attack to my mind.

I want only show that its not good social method to announce something and release late.

look on MOS Blender.When have they announce it ?
When have they release a Version ?

there are lots such long time announcement on OS4 side and not realize stable to use.

real3d
candyfactory
Blender
arteffect
dopusmagellan2

and of course this announcements is a advantage in Marketing for OS4, other OS have this not.

But its possible that there come announce on other AOS too, but i dont like announce long and i dont want that people have hope for something on that i not work 10 Hours /week and i am not 99.999% sure i reach the goal.

But there are lots other out that maybe announce something big, when they have very few time and are only sure about 30% that the realize it, and they have only few motivation too work on it.(I DOnt want say the friedens behave so)

This can see only god, if there any, and if there is a god, maybe unsocial behavior let grill in hell.

In german there is a rule

"Ein gutes Gewissen ist ein sanftes Ruhekissen"

google translate to this

""""
A good conscience is a soft pillow
""""

well i sleep very good, because i am always very social.

and i sleep also very good when there come in 6 months a stable timberwolf for OS4, but i think it take lots longer.

Here is also a story about too long waiting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_Godot

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Last edited by bernd_afa on 05-Oct-2009 at 03:35 PM.

@ Deniil

Quote:

Expensive..?! Well, considering the amount of money people spend on other hobbies and interests, it's not that expensive.

You're perfectly right. I can actually run Firefox on several cheap computers, and I don't need OS4 at all to run it.

@paolone
Quote:

You're perfectly right. I can actually run Firefox on several cheap computers, and I don't need OS4 at all to run it.

Maybe i am wrong, but followed to your logic, you not need browser for AROS also (for what, you can run browser on several cheap computers, and you don't need AROS(os4/mos/os3) at all to run it ?:)

_________________
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@bernd_afa

Yes, it's a fair point, it is technically better than a camera half its price, but that's not the point I was making. I was pointing out that I spend a lot more money than I have to on this hobby because I like it, and because that's what it costs if you really want to partake in this hobby. I see the Amiga in the same way - I enjoy using the Amiga enough to warrant spending a lot of money on it. If you can't justify spending that money, then it's probably not the hobby for you.

_________________
RobTheNerd.com | InstallerGen | SMBMounter | Atoms-X

billt
>As they're working on it in private, not releasing every pre-alpha repository number >to public either source or binary, how would we see the progress by sources?

I think its not good, when a software is long develop silent and nobody test it or there is no progress see and no binarie test.

Testing and finding bugs is a important thing on software development.And i think users that pay a bounty are more intrestet to see progress of the Software and help on testing.

And when the source is too release, then users that pay the bounty and can coding, can then help on problems and look on source.

Then can also see if its clean written and not rush rush done, only that something work

@Bern_Afa

I would like you to understand the real reason as of Why whatever you say is perceived as counterproductive by the rest of the community.

It is not related to whether your notions are either true or untrue, it has to do with the very nature of your underlying proposals.

You seem to love to show the community how 3.x is capable of doing 4.0 stuff thanks to "this" and "that other" fan-made Frankenstein mod and yet you fail to realize that what the community deeply desire is a modern and complete OUT OF THE BOX Amiga experience, that is on par with most modern OSs.

Do we have it?

NO...But...

Morph OS is headed that way.

OS 4.1 is headed that way.

(I'm saying headed that way, not already there).

What you don't seem to understand is that no matter how much your arguments are sound and solid, NOBODY here wants to get back to the prehistoric fan-made extension madness that has been going on since Commodore Bankruptcy.

I'm not saying it wasn't useful back in the day. I'm saying nobody wants to get back to it now (most don't want to hear about it either).

Do you realize how 1996 it all is?

The whole OS3 godzillion fan-made extension nightmare (or labyrinth if you prefer) is bad enough to be proficiently used to scare kids (and the opposite of what the Amiga platform and community needs to be concerned with today).

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

> was pointing out that I spend a lot more money than I have to on this hobby >because I like it,

yes ok, but i dont like to pay much money when i hear long unrealized announcments and often nothing happen.I feel faked.

and luckily there are other AOS out, and at least this AOS that bring glory to the name amiga.

>Do we have it?

>NO...But...

>Morph OS is headed that way.

>OS 4.1 is headed that way.

>(I'm saying headed that way, not already there).

>What you don't seem to understand is that no matter how much your arguments >are sound and solid, NOBODY here wants to get back to the prehistoric fan-made >extension madness that has been going on since Commodore Bankruptcy.

I dont want say stay on 68k i only want say, wy OS4 when they have not much progress made in the past 8 years ?

They get lots of money until then(i gues 1000*100 Eur 100000 Eur).but whats made out of this ?

when there AOS 68k was go opensource, AFA have lots more progress, AROS too.
Or when there are for AROS bounty 100000 Eur available)

Wy do you not name AROS as a future development, if more see future in AROS then this can too a future.

But there are not much that use AROS, AROS is bash often, and of course have no money for marketing

so i decide to have the new features of AROS in 68k and add this code and enhance.

and btw it bring also much for aros, because when i begin with it, or zune, due to more users there are lots bugs find and fixed.see the AROS ML 2005-2006

Wy more see a future in the slow development and selden update OS4 ?

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