@pixie Quote:

But exactly what is Amiga offering that PC hasn't

If you don't even know the answer to that, then I'm not sure why you are still here, arguing about Amiga stuff....

@WiiNinja Quote:

Hyperion seem give up making AOS forward a little. Much momentum in past but not can't update the bugs Acubes boarders like USB example.

I have no idea where you get such (wrong) idea: USB is not buggy on Sam440 (any more than on AmigaOnes, in fact it is probably worse on most AmigaOnes). And Hyperion moves OS4 forward big steps all the time - haven't you seen OS4.1 and Update 1 for OS4.1?

Quote:

Hyperion ... do not want to move it in safe harbor, x86, makes many nervous. People natural like be safer than not safer. Yes?

I do not understand your bad English. But the reason for no OS4 on x86 is due to COST: It would cost a lot of money to port it (while retaining backwards compatibility to all the existing 68k & PPC software).

Sadly PPC was chosen in year 2000 by Amiga Inc, and now we are stuck with that decision.

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Quote:

With money that they have today, of course.

That silly Hans! They creat OS4 6 years ago with money they have today? That mean the have Time machine! Oh ha!!

I joke Hans, but I think nice Mr Umisef mean they found a way pay to create OS4 originally maybe they give effort find way make OS4 safer on life on x86 on we not suffer 1500 euro each customer.

Hyperion give more effort for the all benefit of us!!

Quote:

I do not understand your bad English. But the reason for no OS4 on x86 is due to COST: It would cost a lot of money to port it (while retaining backwards compatibility to all the existing 68k & PPC software).

Oh nice ChrisH!! I talk to you again! Sorry bad english. I work on it, Ok?

I see you write cost lot of money. That what I say A-Eon trevordickson great man overcome obsticles. He cares and he spends much money and time to move AOS4 forward. What Hyperion do? Not much. Move x86 make people feel safe! Wish A-Eon trevordickson own AOS4 they probably more wisely spend on time money on AOS then hack board to get AOS running for a few of us.

@WiiNinja
Quote:

Hyperion spend little on AOS compared do not want to move it in safe harbor, x86, makes many nervous. People natural like be safer than not safer. Yes?

I'll try to explain this again. This has NOTHING to do with Hyperion wanting to port it or not, or whether Hyperion wants to spend money or not. There are large technical hurdles in the way of porting of X86 that don't exist if you continue to use the same processor series. It is very expensive, and takes a lot of time. The arguments have been repeated over and over elsewhere.

This is why it's not feasible, which is what I've said repeatedly.

I could say that Amiga OS would sell in large quantities if the X1000 included a colour holographic display instead of a normal monitor, and I'd be right. Unfortunately, that's also not feasible (due to the technology for it not existing yet). Expecting Hyperion to build me my holographic display, is plain unrealistic (especially if I also expect it to be for a bargain price).

I hope that this is clear now.

Hans

_________________
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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@WiiNinja
Ok second take: Hyperion has an OS for PowerPC processors. Read that well, they don't have to make one, they HAVE one.
Porting AmigaOS to x86 is the kind of titanic work only gigantic corporations such as Apple can undertake without a sweat (or with a couple of sweats anyway).
Hyperion cannot.
So we are happily on PPC

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Quote:

There are large technical hurdles in the way of porting of X86 that don't exist if you continue to use the same processor series. It is very expensive, and takes a lot of time. This is why it's not feasible, which is what I've said repeatedly.

Oh Hans I try always be positive. I am look at your post and what if you reword it a little. Some nay sayer say same about new PPC board too remember do you?

They say there large technical hurdles to build new PPC board. They say it very expensive, and take a lot of time.
They say this is why it's not feasible and they see it repatedly like you say about x86.

So you say same things other say about PPC. Why you choose believe build new motherboard feasible but port OS not feasible?

All this in good postive talking This why I think A-Eon trevordickson showing more heart towards AOS4!

Quote:

Ok second take: Hyperion has an OS for PowerPC processors. Read that well

Oh I may confuse sorry. I think that Hyperion made OS4 for PPC? Is possible someone else made it?

Oh, you should read post I mad to Hans about x86. Your post good, but looking like you Hyperion say we already have OS for PPC we do nothing else! Trevordickson A-Eon say, we do all hardwork and make new board that people say IMPOSSILBE! I say GO A-Eon thank you for working for Amiga future, and in nice way I say Hyperion look at motivate of A-Eon why you not Go Go too?

Quote:

Porting AmigaOS to x86 is the kind of titanic work only gigantic corporations such as Apple can undertake

Oh DAX! I read you post again and more things come to my mind to respond. Hope you don't mind I make to responds? Again, all for good talking!

I read the sentence you post, but making PPC board of A-Eon quality is titanic work also, you agree? Say yes I hope. They not gigantic corporation are they. I think no.

I see A-Eon little guy fighting. I see Hyperion say, oh that big work, we wait for someone else make Gigantic hard work for a motherboard so we do not much.

Why A-Eon do gigantic work and no Hyperion? I say A-Eon more motivation. To me means better.

@WiiNinja
Of course Hyperion makes AmigaOS (and right now they have exclusive rights to Aos past, and ownership of its future), but the PPC code was started when PPC was as good as an option as x86 was (even Apple used it), and now that's what we've got.
For x86 there are a plethora of issues that only a HUGE workforce (that Apple can afford but Hyperion cannot) would be able to tackle.
Hyperion is working hard on the future AmigaOS but this modernized OS will run on the PowerPC architecture (and that is all that is possible with the actual workforce, now if you want to hire 200 programmers and pay them yourself, go ahead ).

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Quote:

For x86 there are a plethora of issues that only a HUGE workforce (that Apple can afford but Hyperion cannot) would be able to tackle.

Hmm you think harder port already made OS then A-Eon make entire new motherboard base PPC and many specs?

I take you qoute lets pretend " plethora of issues that only a HUGE workforce" = magic, ok for just sake?

Hyperion port OS 4 no magic.

A-Eon trevor ####on create motherboard production has magic?


I think A-Eon have just difficult of issue, but why they overcome? Are they rich? I do not know. Are they lots of employees? I do not know. They hardwork make the magic? I think yes.

Quote:

but the PPC code was started when PPC was as good as an option as x86 was (even Apple used it), and now that's what we've got.

But why they have to stop? A-Eon doesn't stop. They just never gonna port it? Just give up? Say that all we have. Sorry. No more make it to the future? Always should be improving, like A-Eon does.


Quote:

and that is all that is possible with the actual workforce, now if you want to hire 200 programmers and pay them yourself, go ahead

I think not that A-Eon have 200 employees, but they do not give up like Hyperion you say.


Never give up. Keep try or give OS to someone else. Thank A-Eon at least we go somewhere? You see I mean A-Eon bring us further Hyperion just do little work? Past did big work, but now do little work. Yes?

Quote:

If you don't even know the answer to that, then I'm not sure why you are still here, arguing about Amiga stuff....

Do you have an answer, hardware wise? Good! Do tell...

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Quote:

I have twice asked you where A-EON should find a better and cheaper processor that can run Amiga OS 4, and you have twice failed to answer, choosing instead to nit pick on one small side issue.

Not wanting to state the obvious since it is like poking some in the eyes, there's arm processor, but above all taking what Amiga OS can do, what software it has to run I would stick to a netbook form, a format where people expect NOT be able to run the latest and greatest software.

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Quote:

taking what Amiga OS can do, what software it has to run I would stick to a netbook form, a format where people expect NOT be able to run the latest and greatest software.

Indeed! Why make a 32Bit x86 CPU when the OSs around are just 16-bit! And why develop DX11 HW? There are no DX11 games, so it must be useless!
HW and Software appear out of nowhere with a puff! And if Everything isnt already out there as per magic from the get go, why make more powerful stuff, it doesn't make sense!

Come on man, new HW comes out first (ie 32Bit X86, new Graphic cards and much more), then software that takes advantage of it comes second.

X1000 comes first, AmigaOS (and other software) that takes advantage of it, become a reality thanks to this event taking place, not the other way around, it works like that since ages.

Last edited by DAX on 18-Mar-2010 at 10:48 PM.

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@WiiNinja
I'm actually not following you, THEY ARE Porting AmigaOS to X1000 right now (Aeon is making the AmigaOne X1000 which has a DualCore PPC CPU and WILL run on AmigaOS from Hyperion).
First the most current version of AmigaOS will be ported, then it will be expanded to make use of SMP and other modern features, eventually leading to AmigaOS 5.0.
The end goal is to have an AmigaOS with all the needed modern features, and they are working on it, so what is the problem?

Last edited by DAX on 18-Mar-2010 at 10:47 PM.
Last edited by DAX on 18-Mar-2010 at 10:44 PM.

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@Pixie

Quote:

Not wanting to state the obvious since it is like poking some in the eyes, there's arm processor, but above all taking what Amiga OS can do, what software it has to run I would stick to a netbook form, a format where people expect NOT be able to run the latest and greatest software.

You're not stating the obvious, because Amiga OS4 doesn't run on ARM processors. I have also never seen an ARM processor that is faster than the upcoming X1000 (don't know the full specs, but this much is clear), so that violates your "better than" requirement. This is all pie in the sky fantasy.

If you really insist on the "port it to ARM/X86/whatever" tact, then I'll leave you to your dreams. I have no desire to take part in yet another "port it to X architecture" thread.

@WiiNinja

I am not going to go through the same old arguments about an X86 port again. If you still don't understand why it's not feasible then I suggest that you dig up some old threads on the matter. But be warned, those threads are long, repetitive, ugly, and full of FUD. It might be a better idea to just enjoy what's currently available.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

Quote:

Indeed! Why make a 32Bit x86 CPU when the OSs around are just 16-bit! And why develop DX11 HW? There are no DX11 games, so it must be useless! HW and Software appear out of nowhere with a puff! And if Everything isnt already out there as per magic from the get go, why make more powerful stuff, it doesn't make sense! Come on man, new HW comes out first (ie 32Bit X86, new Graphic cards and much more), then software that takes advantage of it comes second. X1000 comes first, AmigaOS (and other software) that takes advantage of it, become a reality thanks to this event taking place, not the other way around, it works like that since ages.

What? Should I be expecting another post where you actually contextualize with has been said?

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@WiiNinja

Quote:

I think not that A-Eon have 200 employees, but they do not give up like Hyperion you say.

Choosing not to do something that is unfeasible is NOT giving up, it's called being prudent.

Quote:

Never give up. Keep try or give OS to someone else. Thank A-Eon at least we go somewhere? You see I mean A-Eon bring us further Hyperion just do little work? Past did big work, but now do little work. Yes?

Hyperion have NOT given up. The OS4 developers ARE working hard. The fact that new hardware is coming is proof that they're not giving up.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

Quote:

You're not stating the obvious, because Amiga OS4 doesn't run on ARM processors. I have also never seen an ARM processor that is faster than the upcoming X1000 (don't know the full specs, but this much is clear), so that violates your "better than" requirement. This is all pie in the sky fantasy.

Do you think that having a gazillion fast PPC would solve the Amiga problem? My better than 'requirement' is all fine thanks, you see this netbook format despite slower (in theory only, after all this things are evolving fast) has something that X1000 wouldn't that would be portability, so in a sense giving the actual Amiga OS software pool it would make it better then X1000 DESPITE being slower (if in fact that was to be the case).

The thing is, people are afraid of competition because they simply don't believe in the product, so they try to make it special by running in inferior hardware. Once AmigaOS was running in the best hardware possible, today to make it somehow special, to artificially set a value to it one runs it in not so state of the art technology to say the least. We're about 20 years since the demise of commodore and no signs of improving the curse...

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Quote:

Quote: So how, according to your world view, was OS4 for PPC developed? With money that they have today, of course. I

But OS4 for PPC was developed over the last 8+ years. According to you, one can't use future money to fund current development.

"Money they have today" was future money 8 years ago, whereas OS4/PPC development was current development 8 years ago.

It's called investment. A couple of friends and I are going to start a company today; We don't plan for the company to have any income for 12 months, yet we are going to spend quite a bit of money in that same time. We can do this because we can tell a convincing story about *eventually* being profitable, and thus can get someone who has money to pay the bills while we get there, in exchange for a share of the profits when we do.

The problem with paying for an OS4 port to x86 is not the cost; It's that one simply cannot tell a convincing story about sufficient future profitability to recover the cost and provide a healthy return on the investment. If such a story could be told, there would be plenty of moneyed people and organisations willing to take a look.