Quote:

I really hope that does NOT happen, because: 1. Ambient defines MorphOS for many people (even though a historical 'quirk' caused it to be open sourced), so this would surely *really* upset at least some MOS fans, and that is absolutely the last thing I'd want to see. Pretty sure it would reduce chances of co-operation between both "sides", without (IMHO) gaining us that much.

Isn`t Ambient an open source component? For porting sake as well as for choices (Reaction / MUI / Ambient?) that wouldn`t be bad at all. Hmm ... from tech side of view such move would make porting even easier = reducing the Blue Red War, even yes, MOS users would find it "insulting". But its not on the table yet. There are many other areas like 3D support and powerup/warpup compatibility where OS4 is behind MOS, plus where improvements are needed anyway (not to think its just because of race with MOS).

_________________
Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

Quote:

Well, its "few good fellows" - apps for MOS that don`t exist in 68k or OS4 versions (but one that matter a lot like OWB) and I wouldn`t go that far to say that there are no modern and good apps for OS4, but that there are areas where MOS is advanced / having better apps. Timberwolf (and maybe one day OO port or such app) might change that, and it`s good that other way around is open.

There is few good apps for aos4 which are reaction based (we talk about gui toolkits in general, not about command line programms). Aos4 have for example GDB, which since update3 working again, while MOS not have it , but the point is that we not have too many reaction based apps which are cool.

I can only recall as i say CodeBench and pFTP, what ones else ? (no gadtools based, not 68k ones, not ports from linux, not sdl and not opengl, just plain aos4 api + reaction). Of coruse there is many small reaction-based tools (like DiskImage, prefs in AmigaAmp, system toolz), but we mean something heavy, like browser or video plaer.

Dunno if DvPlayer use reaction ? Imho not.

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

Are you sure about this codebench? Are you using it as much as scribble? I doubt (You say that you are doing crosscompilations mostly).
About other apps, I can only say my app is here:) its working:) will try to finish it and release ASAP.
And about projects, what projects? Something interesting? Another port? I only see that os4 want to grab mos aps as many as can. I really do not see any other big project/s ported to MOS.
Funny, Reaction is official gui and there are more and more mui apps for os4.

@vox
Quote:

Isn`t Ambient an open source component?

Yes, opensource

Quote:

For porting sake as well as for choices (Reaction / MUI / Ambient?)

Mui and Reaction are gui toolkits, while Ambient are fully not, its desktop-manager. Just like Workbench , or HyberBenh, or Dopus5, or ScalOS.

Quote:

that wouldn`t be bad at all. Hmm ... from tech side of view such move would make porting even easier = reducing the Blue Red War, even yes, MOS users would find it "insulting". But its not on the table yet.

Its only users create those wars. Its only users fear that one os will have something which not have other os. Its only users want to think, that only their os "only one and only best".

@all
Just for sake of crooss, did we all really want to start talk here what os are better ?:) Didn't it just _COOL_ when both oses have some the same programms ? Or still all that ego-crap have place, etc ?:)

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

@stekos
Quote:

Are you sure about this codebench? Are you using it as much as scribble? I doubt (You say that you are doing crosscompilations mostly). About other apps, I can only say my app is here:) its working:) will try to finish it and release ASAP. And about projects, what projects? Something interesting? Another port? I only see that os4 want to grab mos aps as many as can. I really do not see any other big project/s ported to MOS. Funny, Reaction is official gui and there are more and more mui apps for os4.

Pfff steff .. Did you really think like this ? like "os4 want to grab more and more mui apps for os4" ?

Common, be bigger that all that "my .... is bigger than your". Does not matter mui it or not. If aros will have some day some Gui toolkit, and some programmer will do some cool apps and make them opensourced, then i will be happy to port them too.

That is not matter MUI, or Morphos or blalbal. Its just Fab good and adequate programmer, who choice morphos and mui. Morphos have some cool mui4 based apps, is't that good to have them on other os as well ? Or , "only morphos make it possible" and other childrish stuff ?:)

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

>> Pfff steff .. Did you really think like this ? like "os4 want to grab more and more mui apps for os4" ?

But just say, itsn't that truth?
It's not also about "who has bigger", but say why PFTP author did not port his app to MOS? Why not ask him, why not ask Hyperion or Amiga Inc or someone else?
It is not problem with reaction, he should start write his app in mui, many people done that this way (jahc).
All this is about some people's work, you are working over hours, wife is mad on you, you dont have friends and in the end people says "lets buy os4 and notebook, you can launch mos and os4 apps there without problems".
Maybe it is childrish, maybe its a market.... I don't like this situation too, thats why sftp app is on the way.

Pfff steff .. Did you really think like this?

While I do not care if AmigaOS 4 "grabs" MorphOS apps or not, I agree with stefkos, that you underestimate Scribble.

As another note, I can say that porting Ambient, without loosing functionality will be not easy as MUI is not the only dependency. Most you can achieve is some half-working or 75%-working result. The drawback of this will be that AmigaOS 4 users may conclude (judging by their crippled version) that Ambient is not that good as MorphOS folks suggest. This conclusion will be false, but will spread around.

It already happens with MPlayer. Because of this unfortunate AltiVec bug and lack of overlay, the general opinion evolves to "unstable and slow", while MPlayer on MorphOS is a really good movie player.

_________________
RastPort

@kas1e

You need to relax mate and not be such a drama queen. I simply asked is it a complete application and not reliant on a separate command line program. Apologies for not wanting to read pages and pages of what is clearly a most-wanted application. Kas1e, everyone on this thread is full of praise - there was no need to be rude! Please keep up the good work.

EDIT: Test it? No point, its already clear (from the page I started reading from) that it won't run for me and that you are aware of the problem.

Last edited by djrikki on 25-Oct-2011 at 02:22 PM.

_________________

Quote:

But just say, itsn't that truth?

The truth, is that does not matter which gui toolkit are used. The matter final programm and their needs for that programm. Aos4 by some unluck have Joerg, who think that making gui for OWB make no sense. And as result, potential project dead. So, why not port other broswer, which use other toolkit (and does not matter mui it or opengl , at all, really), which just _works_ and are good ?

With mplayer situation are the same. Afgxgroup have no time to finish it and add gui to it. Varthall works slow on it, and so, as result, why not port mplayer which already done by fab, whih already have gui, and, everyone will happy ?

Of course it reaction-based mplayer or owb will be feature rich, then for what i need to worry at all, to port mui-based versions ? Its only just to have normal programm at all (because, looks like, aos4 programmers not want mostly to do heavy and logical programms).

I really not so care about mui or reaction, i just care about final programm. And if that happens that in todays mui4 based programms are more heavy and feature rich, then mui, why not. Maybe someday more reaction based apps will be on os4, maybe

Quote:

It's not also about "who has bigger", but say why PFTP author did not port his app to MOS? Why not ask him

Because for that, morphos need to port reaction, or, make opensourced version. How you think we update our mui now ? We loose hours and hours, days and weeks, just to reverse stuff and understand how it work and how to do it. We do it because of course, mos team will be not in interest to give us latest mui4 sources.

Quote:

, why not ask Hyperion or Amiga Inc or someone else?

Because any company suck. And ainc, and blablink, and Genesi too, btw. But we , as users, as 3d party programmers (or porters), should be the same child-close-minded, to have all that wars and problems ?

Quote:

All this is about some people's work, you are working over hours, wife is mad on you, you dont have friends and in the end people says "lets buy os4 and notebook, you can launch mos and os4 apps there without problems".

Did you think that power of the morphos only in Fab's programms and Ambient (which also opensourced) ? Programms are just programms. Its good that you can run ported apps from mos , but its still not mos, and never will (of course).

Quote:

Maybe it is childrish, maybe its a market.... I don't like this situation too, thats why sftp app is on the way.

We (well, i am, dunno how you) do not make any money here. So, for me (and maybe for you) all that marketing/politic/war/crap does not matter. But of course, if you have some money from morphos sales, then sure, for you it's all not so interesting, to give apps from mos to aos4. But there is just few, and maybe will be ambient.

But its all never will official in os4, its never will "aos4 only" , and i, in every post, in every thread, in every news say all the time : its morphos programm, not aos4, its done by fab , on morphos. We only porters.

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

I see all AmigaOS people going crazy about Fabs MPlayer and OWB port. For good reasons, don't missunderstand. What I'm trying to say is that Fab is the truly ambasador for Amiga or Amiga like OS. I hope some people here will open their minds a little and stop all this #### about AmigaOS 4 is the only real amiga alternative etc.

@Krashan

Quote:

As another note, I can say that porting Ambient, without loosing functionality will be not easy as MUI is not the only dependency. Most you can achieve is some half-working or 75%-working result. The drawback of this will be that AmigaOS 4 users may conclude (judging by their crippled version) that Ambient is not that good as MorphOS folks suggest. This conclusion will be false, but will spread around. It already happens with MPlayer. Because of this unfortunate AltiVec bug and lack of overlay, the general opinion evolves to "unstable and slow", while MPlayer on MorphOS is a really good movie player.

Can't help here, its all user's heads.

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

@nikodis
Quote:

about AmigaOS 4 is the only real amiga alternative etc.

Btw, you first in that topic say, that amigaos4 is only real amiga alternative. No one say it imho there.

You say "be open minded", but right by next phrase say that somebody trying to make "amigaos4 real alrernative". Nope ?:)

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

@kas1e

How you think we update our mui now ? We loose hours and hours, days and weeks, just to reverse stuff and understand how it work and how to do it. We do it because of course, mos team will be not in interest to give us latest mui4 sources.

Why loosing hours and hours just to make an imitation, while you can just switch to the real thing?

_________________
RastPort

thank you kas1e for working on mplayer and you'r plans to work on Ambient.
I have used them both under mos for many years and mplayer is really good! Ambient is also good and i would love to use it under Os4 also. Only Dopus Magellan or an extremly updated wokbench would make me more happy but that is pretty unlikely atm so go for it! :)

@Krashan
Quote:

Why loosing hours and hours just to make an imitation, while you can just switch to the real thing?

Because better to loose hours and hourse to make imitation, which in end will mean that any programmer can write mui apps, and they will works more than on one OS, and will looks good, and code will be no so different.

by "Swithcing to real thing " you mean Reaction ? If so, then i just not have good contact with reaction developers, i not have interest to motivate someone to write reaction based browser from scratch, and it will mean, that it will be aos4 only 100%. While, with mui, we for now at least have mui3.x compatibility for all oses, and a bit mui4 compatibility beetwen os4 and mos (but of course, will be cool to have Zune as mui4 replacement).

But, as i say before, morphos-team of cource never-ever will open their sources of mui, and that understanable. Through, opening of mui4 sources, will help and aros, and aos4, and aos3 and everyone else. But sure, its only will help others, morphos will got from that deal nothing, only some potential "maybe" that someone will make some good mui4 app on os3/os4/aros and it will be ported to mos.

Last edited by kas1e on 25-Oct-2011 at 02:37 PM.

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

which in end will mean that any programmer can write mui apps, and they will works more than on one OS, and will looks good, and code will be no so different.

Look at this problem from another perspective. What if applications need not to work on more than one OS (i mean amigalike OS-es here), because there would be only one?

by "Swithcing to real thing " you mean Reaction?

No. I mean MorphOS.

_________________
RastPort

@Krashan
Quote:

Look at this problem from another perspective. What if applications need not to work on more than one OS (i mean amigalike OS-es here), because there would be only one?

For me clear there can't be one OS for the next 5-10 years minimum. For that time i will loose all interest in all of this :) Even if developing of Os4 will stopped right now, there still will be users. AROS developing will never stops imho, as it poligon for tests :) Even if morphos developing will stops right now, users still will be here.

Everyone who today in intereist in amiga stuff, can't put head somethere, and to not see what others do. Its not 199x anymore, and never will, we need to live somehow with all what we have :)

Quote:

No. I mean MorphOS.

Well .. aos4 is interesting as well. I use mos from time to time, also do some small-easy compiling/testing stuff , and found aos4 somehow strucutred better in that terms.

You remember, till the last year morphos developrs (every of them) say that GCC2 are enough, we not need GCC3 ! Now there is gcc3 (so, that all wa sbull). Then they say "we not need GDB, we have enough debugging tools!", that for me also sounds irrational, because GDB is good to have in any way.

The API related parts also better on aos4 (i not saying about IFACE stuff), but i am about Hooks and such stuff. On aos4 its all looks elegant and plainly understanable, while on mos its still all looks like some old os3x mess.

I don't like also how "licencing" done on morphos, its just wrong to put it to all that macadresses (even usb-stick will be better, or kind).

Pluses and minuses as usuall.

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

@kas1e

Personally I don't see a need, but if you think we need it best to get on with it rather than debate about in a forum where you can never 'win' the argument.

_________________

@djrikky
Right, better to worring about altivec stuff for now :)

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

Quote:

The truth, is that does not matter which gui toolkit are used.

Yes, it is matter that I will not see pftp for MorphOS.
You know how opensource should work? Do you think that only mos apps should be open?

Quote:

The matter final programm and their needs for that programm. Aos4 by some unluck have Joerg, who think that making gui for OWB make no sense. And as result, potential project dead. So, why not port other broswer, which use other toolkit (and does not matter mui it or opengl , at all, really), which just _works_ and are good ?

It's just good for you that its (quite) easy to port it and Fab made a big part of work. Or at least its easier then port it from linux sources

Quote:

With mplayer situation are the same. Afgxgroup have no time to finish it and add gui to it. Varthall works slow on it, and so, as result, why not port mplayer which already done by fab, whih already have gui, and, everyone will happy ?

I do not have time to finish my apps. That's why it could be nice to see f.e. Pftp.

Quote:

Of course it reaction-based mplayer or owb will be feature rich, then for what i need to worry at all, to port mui-based versions ? Its only just to have normal programm at all (because, looks like, aos4 programmers not want mostly to do heavy and logical programms). I really not so care about mui or reaction, i just care about final programm. And if that happens that in todays mui4 based programms are more heavy and feature rich, then mui, why not. Maybe someday more reaction based apps will be on os4, maybe

Who knows, I can only cross fingers for that.

Quote:

Because for that, morphos need to port reaction, or, make opensourced version. How you think we update our mui now ? We loose hours and hours, days and weeks, just to reverse stuff and understand how it work and how to do it. We do it because of course, mos team will be not in interest to give us latest mui4 sources.

And os4 team will not give reaction sources for free too.

Quote:

Because any company suck. And ainc, and blablink, and Genesi too, btw. But we , as users, as 3d party programmers (or porters), should be the same child-close-minded, to have all that wars and problems ?

That's why I do not support os4, Ainc....

Quote:

Did you think that power of the morphos only in Fab's programms and Ambient (which also opensourced) ? Programms are just programms. Its good that you can run ported apps from mos , but its still not mos, and never will (of course).

For you launching this apps on os4 is plus, for me I dont care....but I do not see positive points from os4 devs (3rd party even)

Quote:

We (well, i am, dunno how you) do not make any money here. So, for me (and maybe for you) all that marketing/politic/war/crap does not matter. But of course, if you have some money from morphos sales, then sure, for you it's all not so interesting, to give apps from mos to aos4. But there is just few, and maybe will be ambient.

I do not take money for my work...