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Hardware News   Hardware News : Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
   posted by BigBentheAussie on 19-Dec-2011 19:44:52 (54907 reads)
Commodore USA has a final challenge for this community that could enable them to have a new Commodore AMIGA with absolutely any of the features they want. We are serious about this, and we hope you will also take this offer seriously too, and contribute positively to the fruition of the Commodore AMIGA dream.

Allow me to outline our final challenge to the community, and how we can work together towards a unifying goal.
I have a list of obligations for the parties.


1. The community must definitively decide, through polls or whatever, what exactly it wants a Commodore AMIGA from Commodore USA to be.
2. Commodore USA will build and/or sell all product/s that will bear the official Commodore AMIGA brand.
3. Commodore USA will sell the first batch of a particular product AT (THEIR) COST to pre-paid customers only.
4. A minimum of 500 customers must pre-pay the entire amount in an independent account at a trusted institution (at the community's discretion) for the project to begin.
5. Commodore USA will negotiate for all required technology, be it software or hardware, and such costs will be divided by the amount of customers in the initial batch. So the more that join in, the lower the overall cost.
6. Commodore USA will outline all the costs, in as much detail as they are able to, before any customers make payment.
7. Commodore USA is ONLY paid on completion of the work to the satisfaction of the 500+ first batch customers, when the final product is ready to ship.
8. On project commencement, Commodore USA will provide monthly project updates until completion.
9. If Commodore USA does not perform the required work in 6 months of the project commencement date, then the 500+ customers have the option to withdraw immediately for a full refund of their prepayment.
10. Commodore USA reserve the right to affix a margin, at their discretion, to future sales of the product/s, past the initial batch.
11. The community will nominate two independent representatives or leaders who will liaise more closely with Commodore USA and report back to the community.
12. Sometimes negotiations require an NDA, that would limit public consumption of exact costs. In such circumstances that an NDA is required, the two nominated representatives of the community, who will also be under NDA, can independently verify such costs.
13. There will be no advertising of the product or its components by Commodore USA until project commencement.
14. In the meantime, Commodore USA will potentially continue with its current x86 based Commodore AMIGA plans, that will co-exist with the community's desired Commodore AMIGA branded product/s.

Warmest Regards,
Leo Nigro
Chief Technology Officer
Commodore USA, LLC
lan@commodoreusa.net
www.CommodoreUSA.net
    

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PosterThread
Fairdinkem 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 8:35:16
#161 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2010
Posts: 483
From: Victoria, Australia

@Clusteruk

Sure they can make a derivative and that is mearly what it will be, but truthfully the Amiga community could never hail it as Amiga it will just fall into the "another Amigalike OS" category.

Linux is number three OS because there is no real other contender to challenge that spot so being the top three ie MS Windows, MacOSX and Linux (no particular order) maybe a real fight between MS Windows and MacOSX for 1st and 2nd place which makes Linux last because nothing else can be taken seriously. Unless of course you consider AndroidOS or ChromeOS legitimate operating systems?

Linux to me is a Dogs breakfast because there is so many derivatives which make it a hobby OS left to those who can be bothered following the development of which derivative gains more popularity over the others.

I follow AmigaOS 4.x because it is a continuation of that which I know I am not interested in that which is a derivative, that does not mean I can not show appreciation for or credit where credit is due and with that in mind AROS is an amazing achievement and so is MorphOS.


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Slayer 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 8:56:44
#162 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2005
Posts: 416
From: New Zealand

What the hell is wrong with some of you people?

This is exactly why some of you are only "computer" users and not actual "Amiga" users... You are given false power; asked your opinion and all of a sudden you are an expert or important? LOL

AmigaOS is already well set on course now, it has its entire line of computers already available and evolving and the software is continuously developed. Together it's all well made, well supported and has dedication and quality written and embedded all over it!

With these types of threads (it's not the first and it won't be the last) you have everyone and there dog out with there 5 cents and even a couple of X1000 beta testers I think; FFS!

Sell your Souls and be done with it you looney tunes...

Technology for the sake of technology is neverending and hardly useful; and further for this concept, it would be basically only for running limited age old games no doubt... some mumblings about boy hood memories as well I suppose... and some even babbling about running AmigaOS4.x.x ummm HELLO?

I can just imagine the threads to come... pure entertainment!


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3x AmigaOne X1000 1.8GHz 2gM RadeonHD7970 AOS4.x

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danwood 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 9:04:40
#163 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2008
Posts: 1058
From: Unknown

Assuming this is serious, this is what I want.

Work with Hyperion to port/update OS4 to modern standards firstly. It must be x86 to be taken seriously in this day and age, run 68k apps in a sandboxed fully compatible, seamless UAE environment (like unity mode, invisible to the user), run PPC apps via a Rosetta-style virtualization. Add memory protection to the OS and run these old apps in a sandboxed environment, new x86 apps can take advantage of MP, make sure it can run AROS apps so we already have a starting point. Basically bring AROS and OS 4 together, but bring it up to date.

Put it in a nice box with the Commodore Amiga name bearing proudly down at you, give it a custom kb with the A keys....

That'll do nicely and stands a chance of being taken seriously outside of our community, of course it can also run Windows/Linux should the user wish to.

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AmiDelf2 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 9:13:54
#164 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Aug-2005
Posts: 342
From: Norway, Oslo

Good concepts CUSA for new Amiga line. Its a good start.

Then its the wish list:

G4 or G5 PPC Based Amiga
1GB RAM
500GB HD
ATI Radeon 9700
Running AmigaOS4, MorphOS and AROS
Amiga based keyboard! Thats 92 keys!



then later:
- Amiga 68k on a card with AGA or be it NatAmi on a card, for full backward compatibility. (for later CUSA models)
- Zorro slots compatibility slots. So many Zorro cards out there like Delfina, Video Toaster and others that could be used still. (for later CUSA models)

This is all whats needed from CUSA in the first place. Make this Amiga at a price around 9000,- NOK with all things in the list included and its a good selling maching. An alternative to the expensive Apples and cheap but easy to break PC hardware.

Combine your new concept design with Classic Amiga keyboard design in new look. Then would be perfect.

Last edited by AmiDelf2 on 20-Dec-2011 at 09:18 AM.


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Michal, Amiga user since 1988
amitopia@gmail.com

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TheDaddy 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 9:18:09
#165 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2005
Posts: 4499
From: Quattro Stelle

@Slayer

>>What the hell is wrong with some of you people?
AmigaOS is already well set on course now, it has its entire line of computers already available and evolving and the software is continuously developed. Together it's all well made, well supported and has dedication and quality written and embedded all over it! Sell your Souls and be done with it you looney tunes...


AMEN!


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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 9:24:49
#166 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5664
From: Unknown

just a short comment...

I use Amikit and AmigaSys and do not see why it is old... The biggest disadvantage is that it is connected to the hardware and that it is not possible to port it to other platforms. Therefore I think something Aros-based would be the best solution (for me). But it should be something finally most users can identify themself with (not just one or two camps).

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TheDaddy 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 9:27:08
#167 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2005
Posts: 4499
From: Quattro Stelle

Also what I don't get is this sense of ultimatum to the community...

It sounds like: "This is your last chance! Accept it or else!"

So what are they going to do? Unleash an army of Snowmakers 2.0 on us?


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kas1e 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 9:27:51
#168 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3411
From: Russia

All in what i hope, that its really Final Challenge.. Interesting through why approve it as news, and why that not posted in their subforum, but well .. But if there will all those polls (which in end, will anyway result in nothing, we all know that) , plz, let's they be on their subforum which closed from front page. Or we all will year by year give attention to air.


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CodeSmith 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 9:32:55
#169 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@AmiDelf2

Quote:

G4 or G5 PPC Based Amiga
1GB RAM
500GB HD
ATI Radeon 9700
Running AmigaOS4, MorphOS and AROS
Amiga based keyboard! Thats 92 keys!


I agree that PPC is probably the best CPU, since it's the only one supported by all three OSs (IIRC MOS doesn't support running on a 68K CPU any more?)

I'd make the requirements a bit looser, to increase the odds of success:
* PPC SoC Based Amiga (SoC must support PCIe and CPU must run at over 800MHz). Doesn't have to be a new design; in fact, it's probably best if you take an existing board and put it in a custom enclosure. You've demonstrated you're good at custom enclosures, so just work with someone who's good at board design.
* 1GB RAM
* PCIe ATI Radeon supported by OS4, AROS and MOS
* Choose someone from the OS4, MOS and AROS teams to be your technical liaisons, and work through them to make sure that all three OS's have the documentation they need to support the new machine. Each OS will be supported by each team at their own pace, and all CUSA has to do is make sure they have the data they need. I'm sure that the OS teams all have either trade secrets they want to protect or licensing concerns. If each team does things their way, it will be done in the best way possible for each OS. Then all CUSA has to do is bundle the OSs with the machine.
* Keyboard with the Amiga keys in it (could be 92, 101 or 104 keys)

Last edited by CodeSmith on 20-Dec-2011 at 09:35 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 9:36:57
#170 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5664
From: Unknown

that is a little strange... so all Opensource including Openoffice and Linux are dead ends? I think that is a exclusive opinion

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 9:43:10
#171 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5664
From: Unknown

It should not be again AOS vs. Aros vs. MorphOS vs. 68k again. All camps have (different numbers of) users and developers and different advantages and disadvantages. The efforts should be to unify the splitted community because that would offer better chances for all platforms and attract new users and developers. The small community has created tons of innovative developments like AOS, MorphOS, Aros and now new 68k hardware (FPGA Arcade and Natami). Why not make something of it and sell it again as "Amiga"?

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CritAnime 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 9:45:53
#172 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2011
Posts: 734
From: UK

The thing thats confusing me is how things have changed from this "news" article and the thread Leo started just over a week ago asking pretty much the same thing. In which we all gave our suggestions and then he pretty much said it cant be done and asked us for a plan B (
The plan B)

In any case I don't think I can really afford the be putting money into a trust fund with the economy the way it is. But again this is something I don't understand. If you have all this money to be doing the research and development then why need our money? And what if the machines cost more than what people put into the trust. Will you be asking then to put the rest in?


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Admin at Commodore Gaming Wiki

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 9:48:12
#173 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5664
From: Unknown

to short answer "Natami on a card". The most expensive part of any FPGA-based system isb the FPGA (one of the reasons why FPGA Arcade is cheaper than Natami because it uses a smaller FPGA). So the "on a card" solution would propably not be cheaper than the "normal" version. So I do not think that this would make much sense. The added processor card for Natami would make there more sense (of course if AmigaOS and/or MorphOS are adapted to this).

Last edited by OlafS25 on 20-Dec-2011 at 09:51 AM.

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soren_ladegaard 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 10:04:09
#174 ]
Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2005
Posts: 18
From: Unknown

AMIGA today is a hobby project. Alle HW and SW is made by fans for fans. This is not a truly viable business for anyone.

I'm a huge C64 and Amiga fan myself. I own several real machines and have them all set up. They were truly great and ahead of competition when they came out. But that was 20 - 30 years ago.

The Fort T automobile (or some other car) may have been a revolution too. But today you don't see anyone claiming that the Ford T is superiour to any modern car. Ford T fans consider their car a hobby and see it as a vintage car.

Start seeing Amiga as vintage too. An be greatful that CUSA is actually offerering to make a product that you specify.

But in reality you may not even be able to get 500 preorders. 500?! Apple Inc. who still only have 5-10% of the global PC market sell 50.000 computers every single day!

I think CUSA should develop an Amiga-on-a-card or seperate box for USB connection to modern computers. Make it as compatible to the old Amigas as possible. Maybe as a games machine only via SDcards or make it function like a true Amiga with harddrive, Workbench etc. But using your modern computers screen and keybord/mouse/harddrive etc.

I'm sure you could sell many of those if manufactured in high volume to bring costs down and proper PR.

You need to get outside the Amiga Community to make a viable business. As long as your customer base is only within the Amiga Community you have 3000 customers at best world wide.

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-Sam- 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 10:11:54
#175 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 3008
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

Quote:
Final Challenge


Please let this be true.


_________________
Sam

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Naz 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 10:12:14
#176 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2004
Posts: 262
From: Unknown

I think financial possibilities of this comunity are over-estimated by CUSA. This comunity already has products to spend their money on like Sam, X1000 and so on. The X1000 is the biggest development in the last years (as far as I am aware) and people spend their money on this. Now the question comes up to produce in record time just another computer, out of the dreams of the comunity and to get it financed by pre-payment. I mean, how many computers should an Amiga addicted own? A Sam (or two), a X1000, some classics, a Minimig .... the list becomes quite long to be honest ...

In my opinion the best way to do sth for this comunity would be to support the ongoing projects, to push Sam and X1000 and may the Minimig and FPGAArcade and the Natami or Clone A. Than there is the need to work on the Software side, OS and apps. I just do not see the need for another plattform because different plattforms with different pricings are already there. I don't believe that this comunity has the acquisition power you are thinking of. Just my opinion.

naz

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nikosidis 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 10:12:44
#177 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 947
From: Norway, Oslo

I think for a start you could do some A4000 clone keyboards.
I don't like those fancy new keyboards, better with original Commodore design.

If possible it could even come with dobble connector where one is usb other is for original Amiga.

Quality is the factor here. I want something that lasts and feels good. I pay the extra bucks no problem.

Link to HUGE pic of Amiga 4000 keyboard

MODERATOR NOTE:
Such huge pictures really destroy the forum layout.

Last edited by zerohero on 20-Dec-2011 at 11:25 AM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 20-Dec-2011 at 10:16 AM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 20-Dec-2011 at 10:15 AM.

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Channel_Z 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 10:13:30
#178 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2009
Posts: 305
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

If CUSA were smart, they would strike a deal with the Natami guys to wait until they have a chipset good enough to make a small form-factor board with an ASIC, like the C64 DTV, for example in a joystick Then they could start pushing it to the market and cashing in on retro-gamers.

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-Sam- 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 10:15:34
#179 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 3008
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

Quote:
AmigaOS is already well set on course now, it has its entire line of computers already available and evolving and the software is continuously developed. Together it's all well made, well supported and has dedication and quality written and embedded all over it!


Exactly.

CommodoreUSA - It's a bit like a couple of guys deciding one day they will be Apple and start asking the Apple community what they want them to make next.

That is how insane this all looks to the real world.

I do still love the R&D strategy though - 'through polls or whatever' - simply ace!


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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 10:15:51
#180 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5664
From: Unknown

I could imagine that a real "Amiga"-Series based on the innovations of the community including Aros (X86), MorphOS and AmigaOS (PPC) and 68k (Natami and FPGA Arcade) labelled with "Amiga" would create a lot of interest out there. It would be benficial for all of us when the community would be more unified to the outside (from marketing point of view and to attract new users and developers). There should be common marketing and (to some extend and in certain areas) common standards (drivers, make life easier for developers when they want to support all platforms). Examples would be modern IDE´s that support all platforms, technologies like MUI on the same level on all platforms. Nothing of these things would be impossible (f.e. donating money to bounties or let it develope on yourself and open the source).

Last edited by OlafS25 on 20-Dec-2011 at 10:17 AM.

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