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Hardware News   Hardware News : Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
   posted by BigBentheAussie on 19-Dec-2011 19:44:52 (56395 reads)
Commodore USA has a final challenge for this community that could enable them to have a new Commodore AMIGA with absolutely any of the features they want. We are serious about this, and we hope you will also take this offer seriously too, and contribute positively to the fruition of the Commodore AMIGA dream.

Allow me to outline our final challenge to the community, and how we can work together towards a unifying goal.
I have a list of obligations for the parties.


1. The community must definitively decide, through polls or whatever, what exactly it wants a Commodore AMIGA from Commodore USA to be.
2. Commodore USA will build and/or sell all product/s that will bear the official Commodore AMIGA brand.
3. Commodore USA will sell the first batch of a particular product AT (THEIR) COST to pre-paid customers only.
4. A minimum of 500 customers must pre-pay the entire amount in an independent account at a trusted institution (at the community's discretion) for the project to begin.
5. Commodore USA will negotiate for all required technology, be it software or hardware, and such costs will be divided by the amount of customers in the initial batch. So the more that join in, the lower the overall cost.
6. Commodore USA will outline all the costs, in as much detail as they are able to, before any customers make payment.
7. Commodore USA is ONLY paid on completion of the work to the satisfaction of the 500+ first batch customers, when the final product is ready to ship.
8. On project commencement, Commodore USA will provide monthly project updates until completion.
9. If Commodore USA does not perform the required work in 6 months of the project commencement date, then the 500+ customers have the option to withdraw immediately for a full refund of their prepayment.
10. Commodore USA reserve the right to affix a margin, at their discretion, to future sales of the product/s, past the initial batch.
11. The community will nominate two independent representatives or leaders who will liaise more closely with Commodore USA and report back to the community.
12. Sometimes negotiations require an NDA, that would limit public consumption of exact costs. In such circumstances that an NDA is required, the two nominated representatives of the community, who will also be under NDA, can independently verify such costs.
13. There will be no advertising of the product or its components by Commodore USA until project commencement.
14. In the meantime, Commodore USA will potentially continue with its current x86 based Commodore AMIGA plans, that will co-exist with the community's desired Commodore AMIGA branded product/s.

Warmest Regards,
Leo Nigro
Chief Technology Officer
Commodore USA, LLC
lan@commodoreusa.net
www.CommodoreUSA.net
    

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PosterThread
-Sam- 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 10:16:19
#181 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 3012
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

@nikosidis

I think AmigaWorld needs an image size upload limit adding!

Last edited by -Sam- on 20-Dec-2011 at 10:16 AM.


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Shufflepuck 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 10:44:50
#182 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2009
Posts: 643
From: Home

@ BigBentheAussie

AmigaOS has plenty of supported hardware, I do not think "we" need another mobo or complete system (PPC).

I'd say support AROS bounties first, everyone here will see some benefit from it in the long run.

OR, talk to Hyperion, help them move AmigaOS to ARM, and create a nice AIO silent retro-looking and cheap platform around it - preferrably Tegra3 based IMHO - so we'd end up having a NEXT-NEXT-GEN Amiga, with the added ability to dual-boot to Android for the "latest games".

Just my two cents,
Cheers,
Shufflepuck

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Franko 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 10:48:51
#183 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@ CUSA

That's the best sleep I've had in years, thanks for making this thread...

PS: I really hope this is your FINAL challenge to the community, or will this turn out to be another porky pie in about a months time...


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KimmoK 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 10:53:48
#184 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5191
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

My 2cents / list where to pick from
Draft v0.1

I wonder how much money amd effort is needed to get MOS+AOS4 developers "under the same roof", for the future. Perhaps that is out of reach.
Other than that.

About HW:
Help to fullfill AmigaOS4 capable HW product line.

Low end:

- Amiga NetBook is coming. (consider taking part, to get it's volume up)
-- 400Mhz, 1GB RAM, MPC5121e

- Ultra Cheap desktop / set top box / retroGames+AOS4games box
--LimePC X1 kind of, but perhaps with a some 1Ghz CPU
--if no suitable integrated GPU available, perhaps NATAMI as the GFX
--could be fitted in miniature box or inside commodore case designs
--connectors for Atari/Amiga joystics

Mid Range:
- Expandable desktop
--(like above, but with PCI slots, or cost reduced SAM460 derivate)
--Perhaps the specs of the MPC8610 bounty project http://www.power2people.org/projects/profile/43
-- or a new board with QorIQ P5010 or P2020


High End:
-X1000 with PA6T
-X2000 with QorIQ P5020

SuperHighEnd:
-for example with AXXIA ACP3442 or POWER7

Special:
-MPC5121e based accelerator for A1200+AOS4
-- 400Mhz, 1GB, ethernet, USB, HDMIslim, VGA...
-FPGA based 68k accelerator for A1200+AOS3.x
-- 200Mhz, 512MB RAM


About SW:
- Help Hyperion to get SMP done ASAP
- Help to get thing(s) ported to AOS4
-- light weight OpenOffice
-- JAVA
-- Wx widgets
-- Firefox, Gallium, OpenGL
-- Realsoft3D or modern Lightwave
-- Unity3D
-- Video editing suite

About other actions:
- Co-operate with Amiga parties.
- new CBM AMiga desktop cases look cool, perhaps ACube could use those??
- put descriptions & pointers of the original AOS developments to you web.
- help to get AmigaOS4 applications shop to go online & get more content.
- help to start a Amiga parlament/congress web site, where everyone could try to affect the roadmap decisions of Amigas (example it could be made of registered AOS users, or it could be formed according to recommendations for members (members need to get community votes to get in))

....

Last edited by KimmoK on 20-Dec-2011 at 11:15 AM.


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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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Ancalimon 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 10:55:38
#185 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2004
Posts: 433
From: Istanbul

Alright. Here's what I want:

1-) A computer with x86 version of AmigaOS that can run (emulate) 68k and PPC applications and games in some type of Sandbox.

2-) If it's not possible, a PPC computer running AmigaOS4 that's not more than twice the price of a good Intel i5 PC but just as fast.

3-) If it's not possible, NATAMI with a faster processor + RTG capable of 1920-1080.

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SHADES 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 10:58:11
#186 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 659
From: Melbourne

@steve
Quote:
Aros is the most developed cross CPU architecture Amiga operating system we have, it supports x86, 64 bit, Arm, PPC and 68k already downloadable. The only thing it lacks is the right to use the Amiga name. It has full networking, wireless support, a good usb stack, fast Gallium 3d on NVidia and Intel GMA, a growing driver base, a pretty big development team at the moment and the support of a growing chunk of the community

- Ok, here is where I have an issue.

1. Although AROS may be leading the pack at the moment driver wise, it has still failed at being what it set out to do which is being compatible with AmigaOS at the API level. This was the original goal. I'd say this was chosen to port the OS from 68k to x86 to retain and continue to grow/develop. API may have to change but ability to run legacy apps for me is important, not using uae or winuae clones, i mean seamlessly, from the desktop. part of the OS.

anyway, OS4 has gone from this idea further and improved memory control and currently working on multi CPU. all important for newer and better HW. Would be great to have it ported, but hey.

Ok, enough, I can't solve this one.

-----------
@ ALL
----------

This is a REAL opportunity. I don't give a fat one about feelings, if there is a chance this is real, make AMIGA happen again?? I want to take it. So, opinions and feelings aside...
Can we have a small poll up to begin with??

- In Poll- I want to vote, it MUST run AMIGA OS. (just that for now. flavors, differences later.)

- not even going to start on which CPU at this stage.....there is obviously going to need some input/construct with Hyperion here as AROS or OS4 is a no no until they say otherwise.
So, to even get this project off the ground for me, Hyperion will need to come on in, have a voice and decide how we are to start sorting out this insane mess of AMIGA OS . God, haven't even started with MOS yet.

Either way, IF AOS is going to be used, not linux or sun OS or something else, Hyperion have the final say.
Can we get them to contribute?? I do remember one of them talking about a possible port of the current OS to x86 IF the $$ was around.....I rember the 20g mark which is small in the grand scheme of things.

As a starting point though, in my eyes, whatever the way it oves, it MUST run AMIGA OS and sell with AMIGA OS.

Can we at least poll that last point? If we all agree on Amiga OS, the next is to contact Hyperion and get some indications on how to move forward.........??

Hyperion and Commodore are going to have to collaborate here, are they even aware that this offer is even on the table?? there could be real chance to make something amazing here. Boy if this gets off the ground, it's going to make HISTORY.

*edit. Hyperion will not just have a voice, they are the deciding factor here. If it can't run AMIGA OS, i'm not interested so this needs to be communicated to Hyperion who are the owners.

Last edited by SHADES on 20-Dec-2011 at 11:02 AM.


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jkirk 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 11:00:12
#187 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2005
Posts: 3348
From: Georgia (usa)

@ BigBentheAussie


fine if you want to continue this foolish course of action i will give you a hint.

negotiate for licensing of the sam +os4, embed them in your custom cases, and sell them as a fully functional system. no need for a pre-order to accomplish this and any profit made can go into development for a future system of your own design.

Last edited by jkirk on 20-Dec-2011 at 11:01 AM.


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ddni 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 11:00:43
#188 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2007
Posts: 818
From: Northern Ireland

@clusterUK

Steve, I amended my earlier (page 8) post.

Last edited by ddni on 20-Dec-2011 at 07:29 PM.
Last edited by ddni on 20-Dec-2011 at 11:01 AM.


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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 11:03:20
#189 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5761
From: Unknown

if this ends the "bashing each other" it would already be of great benefit. And instead of discussing what we "cannot" do we should discuss what we can reach. The solutions cover (already) X86, ARM, PPC and 68k and there are not many platforms that can compare with this. We should use this instead of "separating" us from each other by claiming "my choice is the best and only one".

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SHADES 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 11:07:37
#190 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 659
From: Melbourne

Quote:
if this ends the "bashing each other" it would already be of great benefit. And instead of discussing what we "cannot" do we should discuss what we can reach. The solutions cover (already) X86, ARM, PPC and 68k and there are not many platforms that can compare with this. We should use this instead of "separating" us from each other by claiming "my choice is the best and only one".

agreed, but before we even get to platform, cpu, specs etc can we decide if it's going to be Amiga OS or not??

If we ALL agree on that, we can move to the next bit. Hyperion will have to be involved if the answer to that is yes. If Hyperion say get lost, what's the point?


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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 11:08:24
#191 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5761
From: Unknown

Hyperion is certainly one of the important players but there must be ngotiations with the other camps too. And a end of the fighting with a roadmap how to get a future for the platform as a whole.

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SHADES 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 11:10:36
#192 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 659
From: Melbourne

Hyperion will stop ANY Amiga-like Os. they already did with AROS. So, again, is it going to run AMIGA OS.

If yes, then they will HAVE to be involved. AROS is not going to happen without that, or anything else.
Unless we decide to build a MOS box, or a QNX box. Like I said, is it going to be AMIGA OS


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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 11:11:10
#193 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5761
From: Unknown

There must be a concept that unifies all camps. Even if a powerpc-based system with amigaos is labelled with amiga, it will not persuade all others to buy it. And the vote must be open and all amigians must have the chance to participate (not only OS4 users on this site)

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Channel_Z 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 11:12:19
#194 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2009
Posts: 305
From: Unknown

@SHADES

AmigaOS is not only OS4.x. There are way more AmigaOS 3.x/classic users/fans out there and targeting them would make a lot more sense from a financial viewpoint. PPC AmigaOS is only a small niche in comparison.

Surely Hyperion cannot complain if more copies of OS 3.9 are sold, for example? Are Hyperion actively trying to sabotage every effort that is not OS4-related?

Last edited by Channel_Z on 20-Dec-2011 at 11:15 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 11:13:30
#195 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5761
From: Unknown

you mean Hyperion is behaving like a monopolist and all other users of the other camps will be happy about that and buy it? I hope they will change their behavior and understand that working together is beneficial for them.

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Daedalus 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 11:14:25
#196 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Glasgow - UK, Irish born

Quote:
Poster: danwood Date: 20-Dec-2011 9:04:40

Assuming this is serious, this is what I want.

Work with Hyperion to port/update OS4 to modern standards firstly. It must be x86 to be taken seriously in this day and age, run 68k apps in a sandboxed fully compatible, seamless UAE environment (like unity mode, invisible to the user), run PPC apps via a Rosetta-style virtualization. Add memory protection to the OS and run these old apps in a sandboxed environment, new x86 apps can take advantage of MP, make sure it can run AROS apps so we already have a starting point. Basically bring AROS and OS 4 together, but bring it up to date.

Put it in a nice box with the Commodore Amiga name bearing proudly down at you, give it a custom kb with the A keys....

That'll do nicely and stands a chance of being taken seriously outside of our community, of course it can also run Windows/Linux should the user wish to.


There you go. A nice, sensible answer which seems to have cropped up a few times. I just picked Danwood's post because it was very clear and well written. Essentially, if you can build a machine that runs AmigaOS (and no, Linux with a skin is *not* AmigaOS), and can run existing OS4 and 68k software transparently, you will sell it. You can even use whtever CPU you want, provided the transparent compatibility is still there.

However, the cynical side of me sees this just ending in some sort of slap-in-the-face statement saying how what we want will cost huge money or is otherwise impossible, and that the community are all lunatics for asking for it.


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SHADES 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 11:14:35
#197 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 659
From: Melbourne

I don't agree.

It won't fill all camps.

Hyperion OWN the AMIGA Os title.

So a poll will need to be made.

AMIGA OS or not. simple.

It needs to be decided. Here's the fact.

Hardware and all other things aside, foget about feelings, forget about cudos, who put in work, who didn't.

Hyperion own the OS, so, with that FACT in mind, know they say yes or no, can we get a poll up to decide if we, the amiga community are going to make it AMIGA os, or debate that tillwe all die of old age.

forget everything else. Hyperion get that say


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wajdy 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 11:15:33
#198 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 27-Oct-2006
Posts: 182
From: Amigania

To all those trying to unify AROS, Morphos and AOS4: this will accelerate NOTHING!

Let Hyperion be the OS partners and ACUBE be the hardware manufacturer....Both as OEM

and CUSA be the front end company responsible for:

- marketing
- handling sales operations through channel partners
- funding software projects and creating a market place.
We need software like Office, Image Processing, Audio, Video....

A good hardware project will be state of the art HD TOASTER.

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SHADES 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 11:17:40
#199 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 659
From: Melbourne

@ Channel_Z
Quote:
AmigaOS is not only OS4.x. There are a many more AmigaOS 3.x/classic users/fans out there and targeting them would make a lot more sense from a financial viewpoint. PPC AmigaOS is only a small niche in comparison.


No, they also dictate what happens with AROS. at the moment, Commodore can't sell machines with AROS because they say so. so, no, it's NOT just OS4

Unless you mean MOS, or Linux, or Windows running WinUAE.........

So, again, i say poll. will it run AMIGA OS and if yes, Hyperion WILL have to be involved, even if it means YES to AROS.


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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 11:21:01
#200 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5761
From: Unknown

such comments create the gap that all always moan about...

We call it "Friß oder stirb" that means take it or leave it. That is no concept to create a market and get new customers (not inside the community and not outside). Hyperion is one of the big player but when you only supports one community who will buy it? Many of the AmigaOS users already own more than one "AmigaOS" computer. Do you think they will buy another one just because "Amiga" is labelled on it. The vast majority of users and developers are in the other camps and acting against them would be a major error.

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