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Hardware News   Hardware News : Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
   posted by BigBentheAussie on 19-Dec-2011 19:44:52 (54910 reads)
Commodore USA has a final challenge for this community that could enable them to have a new Commodore AMIGA with absolutely any of the features they want. We are serious about this, and we hope you will also take this offer seriously too, and contribute positively to the fruition of the Commodore AMIGA dream.

Allow me to outline our final challenge to the community, and how we can work together towards a unifying goal.
I have a list of obligations for the parties.


1. The community must definitively decide, through polls or whatever, what exactly it wants a Commodore AMIGA from Commodore USA to be.
2. Commodore USA will build and/or sell all product/s that will bear the official Commodore AMIGA brand.
3. Commodore USA will sell the first batch of a particular product AT (THEIR) COST to pre-paid customers only.
4. A minimum of 500 customers must pre-pay the entire amount in an independent account at a trusted institution (at the community's discretion) for the project to begin.
5. Commodore USA will negotiate for all required technology, be it software or hardware, and such costs will be divided by the amount of customers in the initial batch. So the more that join in, the lower the overall cost.
6. Commodore USA will outline all the costs, in as much detail as they are able to, before any customers make payment.
7. Commodore USA is ONLY paid on completion of the work to the satisfaction of the 500+ first batch customers, when the final product is ready to ship.
8. On project commencement, Commodore USA will provide monthly project updates until completion.
9. If Commodore USA does not perform the required work in 6 months of the project commencement date, then the 500+ customers have the option to withdraw immediately for a full refund of their prepayment.
10. Commodore USA reserve the right to affix a margin, at their discretion, to future sales of the product/s, past the initial batch.
11. The community will nominate two independent representatives or leaders who will liaise more closely with Commodore USA and report back to the community.
12. Sometimes negotiations require an NDA, that would limit public consumption of exact costs. In such circumstances that an NDA is required, the two nominated representatives of the community, who will also be under NDA, can independently verify such costs.
13. There will be no advertising of the product or its components by Commodore USA until project commencement.
14. In the meantime, Commodore USA will potentially continue with its current x86 based Commodore AMIGA plans, that will co-exist with the community's desired Commodore AMIGA branded product/s.

Warmest Regards,
Leo Nigro
Chief Technology Officer
Commodore USA, LLC
lan@commodoreusa.net
www.CommodoreUSA.net
    

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PosterThread
Middleman 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 10:10:08
#361 ]
Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2011
Posts: 21
From: Unknown

@TrevorD

Nice to meet you Trevor and a Merry Christmas to you too mate! :)


Ok, been reading this thread with interest. As a CUSA supporter (over half a year) I have a proposition for both 'sides' if you will. How about we skip the Natami and go straight into development of a proper 64-bit Amiga for this special project? As some have quite rightly said, they have more than sufficient machines like the X1000 that they don't need another such Amiga. So what do we do instead? As a community coming together we make a true 64-bit Amiga, based on the Freescale Qoriq T5 ie. Motorola PowerPC7, 28nm, multicore chip and a board with modern multi-interconnects. Perhaps do this with the help of Varisys, Hyperion (to develop OS5) and/or TrevorD's help in the design of the board, all put into a CUSA Amiga case. Then at a later date, CUSA helps to produce Commodore/Amiga branded peripherals for all to use with this machine.

Guys, what do you think?

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pgf_666 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 11:11:28
#362 ]
Member
Joined: 29-Dec-2007
Posts: 41
From: Unknown

@thread & all....

let's see....you guys complain--rightfully, I think--when Como-Dork & successors go and do stuff without checking with us. Then, when somebody actually asks you what you want, you do nothing but grip. Jeez!

So....what they are really asking is, in fact, the old bugaboo, what makes it an "Amiga", other than the logo?

I don't care what you call it--hell, use the name I came up with for a project to out-Ami Ami back before the A4000/A1200 came out, "Novia". It's Spanish, look it up, but the implication was 'more than just an Amiga'.

Oddly enough, in doing that project, I came to the conclusion that what makes an Ami an Ami is, in fact, the name. Or rather, what it represents. Which is Jerry Pournelle's definition of 'user-friendly', "Allowing the user to do what he wants to do, the way he wants to do it". You want a CLI? Right here. You want a Desktop? At your service. You want to save memory? 1-bit plane, coming up. 16 color hi-res screen? Sure thing. Want a Klingon font? No prob. You get the idea. So.... my suggestions:

1: A standard form-factor m/b built around the best performing CPU and chip-set available.

2: Call it a 'AAAA' graphics chip set, capable of doing all the original modes, and their logical extensions, at 32 bits--8xRGBA--as well as standard 8/16/24/32 bit planar modes, in hardware, and perhaps a logarithmic DTA as well. This should still be available even if another graphics card is installed, unlike the WinDon't system I'm writing this on. And, yes, make the system clock an even (1024 or 2048) multiple of the standard color clock. Even though that's an obsolete concept anymore.

3: Standard slots & ports--PCIx, USB3 (or 4), SATA7+1 audio--with capture; again, you get the drill. Ditto power supply, BRD.

4: Aside from The Accursed Logo, I actually like this keyboard, although I did like the 'vanilla/butterscotch' color scheme of the originals.

5: The machine comes with a basic O/S--C=O/S, maybe--on one partition of a BIG HD. It includes software to set up the flavor DOS of the owner's choosing, AOS 1.2 to 4.1, WinUAE, NoviaO/S, whatever, including the hardware drivers. Since CUSA doesn't supply it, CUSA doesn't have to deal with Hype-erion, MOS, BeOS, QNX, etc. Heck, run Snow Leopard or TOS 1.4 if you own a copy....

6. Of course, you need the support software, some of which isn't available in all the available candidate O/S's, so fund the porting of, say, Libre Office to AROS and such as don't have it, Firefox or OWB, etc.

7: One of the Joys of Ami is the ease of writing usable code, from shell scripts to ARexx (not quite so much) to BASIC (HiSoft Pro was great,except for a few minor issues, and one nasty bug) and even C and assembly. Make sure these are available to those who want them.

8: Documents. My last two WinDon't machines had 1 page of manual between them. Especially, DON'T put hardware/setup manuals on .PDF.....at least, not only....

9: Hardware options: Number of CPUs, cores; (mini-)desktop, tower, console; if you're cleverer than I, if you can make the m/b work in an A-1200 or even an A4k/t case, all the better.

In case you haven't figured it out, I want the Amiga we'd have had if Irving the Gua'uld hadn't messed up; I have no issue with the retro boys & girls, but I'm a Tim Allen type--MORE POWER! That, alas, implies Intel or AMD chips. Yeah. Sucks. But most of the reasons for choosing Motorola versus Intel have disappeared; the 64-k segments, the sparse registers, all that is a thing of the past. So, it doesn't suck as bad as it would have in 1990....

Now, if you want details, just send me a note....


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Reth 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 11:23:33
#363 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Posts: 185
From: Germany

@BigBentheAussie:

Well new hardware is just one thing. But what about all the necessary drivers even currently missing for the different existing platforms (e.g. graphic card support 2D/3D, WiFi, USB3.0, ...)? How would this be handled together with this new platform? Would you also investigate (in some way) in that?

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Cool_amigaN 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 12:00:24
#364 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2006
Posts: 1189
From: Athens/Greece

redrumloa wrote:

Quote:

[...] Reality is nice, you should try it some time. [...]


TrevorD wrote:

Quote:

[...] I have personally financed the "First Contact" production run.
[...]
I am also personally financing the next development effort which is already underway.


Isn't reality a bitch?


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damocles 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 12:57:00
#365 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

Quote:
I have personally financed the "First Contact" production run. AmigaKit is only now taking deposits to confirm final orders. There is no pre-funding requirement from customers.


And same for the Beta boards?


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redrumloa 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 13:33:13
#366 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Feb-2005
Posts: 562
From: Unknown

Quote:
Poster: damocles Date: 21-Dec-2011 12:57:00

Quote:
I have personally financed the "First Contact" production run. AmigaKit is only now taking deposits to confirm final orders. There is no pre-funding requirement from customers.


And same for the Beta boards?


Right and no 3rd party escrow in either case. The "beta-testers" prepaid 50% and waited what? A year? I'm not here to slag Trevor in any case, he seems to be a stand up guy and completely trustworthy. All reports are people that got tired of waiting were refunded. It is indeed a nice change to see such ethics after the past scam artists.

My point is how silly it is to praise one non 3rd party pre-payment sceme while brutally slagging the idea of a 3rd party escrow pre-payment. I guess par for the course in this Kommunity.

Last edited by redrumloa on 21-Dec-2011 at 01:35 PM.


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Metalheart 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 13:43:42
#367 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2968
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

I'd wish you'd stop using the word Kommunity.

It sounds degrading.....

Last edited by Metalheart on 21-Dec-2011 at 01:47 PM.


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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 14:34:21
#368 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5664
From: Unknown

I do not know what the other "Guys" think but noone will hinder anyone to do something. But how do you want to persuade the 68k, Aros and MorphOS camp to buy it? And most of the OS4 supporter already own one or more than one, why will they buy another one? And who will pay the development? And how it is differentiating from existing hardware?

I do not think that this would be idea that unifies the community...

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CritAnime 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 15:15:35
#369 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2011
Posts: 734
From: UK

@redrumloa

You have a point but CUSA have not come out with anything to suggest how much these machines, beta or not, will cost. So if theyt turn round and say they want $2,500, which they have suggested once upon a time would be the going rate for their vision of the amiga, would you be happy throwing that into an escrow and having it basically sat there doing nothing?

They really need to think about at least telling us a ball park estimate for the case. That would be a start.


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ExiE 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 15:31:58
#370 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-May-2004
Posts: 450
From: Czech Amiga News

All hardware that is/or soon will be available for AmigaOS4 is underpowered or overpriced or in most cases both...

so I would prefer to focus on "retro machine" or switch to X86 (no matter if we are talking about AOS4 with some build in 68k/ppc emulation or AROS)

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 15:33:51
#371 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1301
From: CRO

Quote:
You have a point but CUSA have not come out with anything to suggest how much these machines, beta or not, will cost. So if theyt turn round and say they want $2,500, which they have suggested once upon a time would be the going rate for their vision of the amiga, would you be happy throwing that into an escrow and having it basically sat there doing nothing?


That's why the community needs to be realistic because you will never get 500 orders for something like a PPC laptop or a new high end motherboard. Hell, even a SoC PCC based will be costly... look at Acube Sam460.


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asymetrix 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 16:04:10
#372 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 847
From: United Kingdom

@thread

First things first

Hyperion needs to get a NEW LICENCE for AmigaOS / Amiga name for ANY DEVICE, FOR ANY USE, NOW or FUTURE.

Hyperion needs to invision the future processor for Amigas.
Hyperion needs to invision the future GFX card/chip for Amigas.

Hyperion needs to invision the non replicatibe uniqueness of Amiga HW/SW.

ONLINE AmigaOS 3.x, 4.x, MOS, AROS API compare / checker.

introduce API independant code modules.

Dedicated Amiga Game programming tutorials in C, C++ website.

get hardware manufacturers to use minimum GFX chipset for laptop :

Aim for Nvidia
Intel HD Graphics 3000 ( fastest non Nvidia/AMD) chipset

Last edited by asymetrix on 21-Dec-2011 at 04:58 PM.
Last edited by asymetrix on 21-Dec-2011 at 04:11 PM.


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redrumloa 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 16:46:53
#373 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Feb-2005
Posts: 562
From: Unknown

Quote:
Poster: Metalheart Date: 21-Dec-2011 13:43:42

I'd wish you'd stop using the word Kommunity.

It sounds degrading.....


It is not meant that way whatsoever. I'd be degrading myself if it was meant such as I was an Amiga Inc supporter myself until about late 2002. The term Kommunity is back from a time when there was very little division, only some hatred towards emulator users but not much.


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clebin 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 18:43:16
#374 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1692
From: Cardiff

I normally stay out of CUSA threads, but...

@BigBentheAussie

If there's any consensus at all, it's that a "Commodore Amiga" should have an Amiga-like OS. Some would settle for nothing less than OS4, but that's the common denominator. More people would prefer an Amiga-branded computer to have AROS or MOS than Linux and we all know that such a thing would have a decent uptake.

Last time, Hyperion weren't interested and you didn't want to face the legal challenge. Either you try and change one of those things, or you may as well as admit you've been planning to use Linux all along.

Any more polls and questions are pointless at this stage. It's just asking people to choose between a bunch of options, some or all of which may be impossible, only to shoot them down one by one. It's over to you now, Leo. Come back and tell "this is the OS we're able to use - it's OS4/OS3/MOS/AROS" but more questions will get us nowhere!

Chris


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DAX 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 18:43:58
#375 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

I don't have time to read 300+ posts so it runs down to this Leo: an official Amiga should have AmigaOS on it, so , instead of writing stuff such as this here, you should contact Hyperion and negotiate with them a joint venture...

Last edited by DAX on 21-Dec-2011 at 06:45 PM.


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terminills 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 18:56:32
#376 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1387
From: Unknown

@Dax

Quote:

I don't have time to read 300+ posts so it runs down to this Leo: an official Amiga should have AmigaOS on it, so , instead of writing stuff such as this here, you should contact Hyperion and negotiate with them a joint venture...


So you get to decide? Awesome! Glad to know the community has a new leader. I personally want to see the AAA chipset. I'm sure many don't agree with me so I won't claim that's what has to be done.


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DAX 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 19:08:40
#377 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Terminills
"Properly done" you would have AmigaOS on a new Amiga that's all I meant. AAA is also an Amiga piece sure, but contrary to AmigaOS, it cannot be turned (today) into something that can be used for modern applications.
As Haynie said, it was scrapped for being too late and they were going for a PCI bus with a card stuck in it (interchangeable with a third party made one eventually) and if it was too late in 1994 I don't see how it would be good in 2011 (so to speak).


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terminills 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 19:17:22
#378 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1387
From: Unknown

Quote:

"Properly done" you would have AmigaOS on a new Amiga that's all I meant. AAA is also an Amiga piece sure, but contrary to AmigaOS, it cannot be turned (today) into something that can be used for modern applications.
As Haynie said, it was scrapped for being too late and they were going for a PCI bus with a card stuck in it (interchangeable with a third party made one eventually) and if it was too late in 1994 I don't see how it would be good in 2011 (so to speak).


Technically it could handle modern applications fine. Modern games not so much. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Hombre_chipset


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Rob 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 19:18:12
#379 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5847
From: S.Wales

@redrumloa

Quote:
Dude, seriously, do you have any ability to reason whatsoever?


I stated my opinion on what was on offer, not very much, and you counter it by taking my statement and editing it to create a non-factual attack A-EON which wasn't even the subject of this thread. I don't have the ability to reason?

Quote:
I am being serious here. How is it that your mind finds Trevor as someone who fell on his sword for the great Amiga, yet Barry sacrifices small children and worships the devil.


This is Leo's thread. I didn't mention Barry yet you are putting words in my mouth suggesting that I have some irrational hatred of him personally.

Quote:
They are both running a business, they have both taken financial risks and they would both like to be successful. If someone wrongly slams CUSA for suggesting pre-payment claiming it is to finance a project when in reality they stated it would be to 3rd party escrow


It doesn't matter if the money is in escrow. They'd be paying in advance for a product that hasn't been seen or demoed. At least the X1000 existed and had been demoed publicly so customers had some idea of the quality of the product they were/are buying.

Quote:
Reality is nice, you should try it some time.


Thanks for the lulz.

Quote:
I also don't see your venom towards Amigakit and A-Eon for their pre-payment scheme on the "First Contact" systems. Let me guess, Matt threw himself on his sword too? No, pre-payments are being used to finance production.


AmigaKit have a proven track record and I have done business with Trevor previously so there were no issues for me. If they were an unknown quantity then of course I'd be suspicious. Also if you consider what I have said with regard to CUSA as venomous then you must be extremely sensitive.


P.S.

I slammed Amigakit on the forums when they revealed the AmigaONE keyboard, so I am not some blind fanboy who thinks they can do no wrong. Having said that, I still get on fine with Matt and the rest of the AmigaKit team. It was the product I didn't like, not the people.

P.P.S.

I don't beleive anything will ever come of this "initiative".

Last edited by Rob on 21-Dec-2011 at 10:18 PM.

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DAX 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 19:49:28
#380 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Terminills
As you know AAA and Project Hombre are two different things (I was talking about the former),
Besides, while the PCI bus was already a reality, Hombre was ultra late itself, which would have led third parties Video card to be far more powerful even before its completion...(sad but true).


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