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Hardware News   Hardware News : Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
   posted by BigBentheAussie on 19-Dec-2011 19:44:52 (54909 reads)
Commodore USA has a final challenge for this community that could enable them to have a new Commodore AMIGA with absolutely any of the features they want. We are serious about this, and we hope you will also take this offer seriously too, and contribute positively to the fruition of the Commodore AMIGA dream.

Allow me to outline our final challenge to the community, and how we can work together towards a unifying goal.
I have a list of obligations for the parties.


1. The community must definitively decide, through polls or whatever, what exactly it wants a Commodore AMIGA from Commodore USA to be.
2. Commodore USA will build and/or sell all product/s that will bear the official Commodore AMIGA brand.
3. Commodore USA will sell the first batch of a particular product AT (THEIR) COST to pre-paid customers only.
4. A minimum of 500 customers must pre-pay the entire amount in an independent account at a trusted institution (at the community's discretion) for the project to begin.
5. Commodore USA will negotiate for all required technology, be it software or hardware, and such costs will be divided by the amount of customers in the initial batch. So the more that join in, the lower the overall cost.
6. Commodore USA will outline all the costs, in as much detail as they are able to, before any customers make payment.
7. Commodore USA is ONLY paid on completion of the work to the satisfaction of the 500+ first batch customers, when the final product is ready to ship.
8. On project commencement, Commodore USA will provide monthly project updates until completion.
9. If Commodore USA does not perform the required work in 6 months of the project commencement date, then the 500+ customers have the option to withdraw immediately for a full refund of their prepayment.
10. Commodore USA reserve the right to affix a margin, at their discretion, to future sales of the product/s, past the initial batch.
11. The community will nominate two independent representatives or leaders who will liaise more closely with Commodore USA and report back to the community.
12. Sometimes negotiations require an NDA, that would limit public consumption of exact costs. In such circumstances that an NDA is required, the two nominated representatives of the community, who will also be under NDA, can independently verify such costs.
13. There will be no advertising of the product or its components by Commodore USA until project commencement.
14. In the meantime, Commodore USA will potentially continue with its current x86 based Commodore AMIGA plans, that will co-exist with the community's desired Commodore AMIGA branded product/s.

Warmest Regards,
Leo Nigro
Chief Technology Officer
Commodore USA, LLC
lan@commodoreusa.net
www.CommodoreUSA.net
    

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PosterThread
djrikki 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 13:20:52
#401 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2010
Posts: 2077
From: Grimsby, UK

@thread

In an ideal world this news item would not have been approved - because in the end it still got my attention with it being on the front page - the mods said they would put a stop to this, but they have not carried this through in full. A news item is still a thread at the end of the day.

Oh yeah and that other thread is still visible in the recent list of threads.

I don't see why Amigaworld should be so concerned with driving trafic on this site et al - it cannot be making much money (any? from visitors. Where are the google ads for example?

PS. If C=USA want to post non-news items - let them trash A.org instead.

Last edited by djrikki on 22-Dec-2011 at 01:25 PM.
Last edited by djrikki on 22-Dec-2011 at 01:25 PM.
Last edited by djrikki on 22-Dec-2011 at 01:23 PM.


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KimmoK 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 13:42:46
#402 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5187
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@AlexC

about #14:
C= can not stand still when the community takes it's time to make the decision.

+ it's not realistic to expect community version of Commodore AMIGA to fill the whole C= product range.


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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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AlexC 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 14:30:51
#403 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Jan-2004
Posts: 1293
From: City of Lost Angels, California.

@KimmoK
They don't have to stand still, they can forge ahead with Commodore-branded machines and accessories all they want, nobody should mind as CBM did produce everything from typewriters to IBM-compatible PCs using the brand.

It's just the part about using the Amiga name for anything unrelated to what "Amiga" means to millions of people that's bound to upset the few hundreds or thousand of us who sacrificed so much to keep the dream alive...


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eliyahu 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 14:34:39
#404 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1809
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@Hondo

Quote:
And it's a good idea, but he should have asked A-Eon and Hyperion instead. By asking the community first he shows no respect towards what other companies are trying to do for this community. Not a good way to enter this little ecosystem called the Amiga universe.

i agree it would have been better to start with supporting existing efforts if the goal is PR; but if they genuinely wanted to do something for the community, they can't just ask A-EON or hyperion. the community is much larger than us OS4 guys. there's also classic enthusiasts, and the aficionados of alternatives like MOS and AROS to consider as well. by approaching just one side, they risk entering the ongoing civil war around here.

in any case i don't know if anything will come of this; actually, i doubt it will. but i think the gesture was a good one and a positive one. we can hardly foam at the mouth over leo coming here and asking us what we want when their not doing that was one of the biggest complaints against them when they came onto the scene.

-- eliyahu


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FLOPS 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 15:00:02
#405 ]
New Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2010
Posts: 1
From: Unknown

Hi,

I'd like to have new Amiga based on PPC or if those processors aren't developed, based on ARM or something like CELL. I'd like to have there AOS and for others opportunity to run systems like AROS and MORPHOS.
If will be possible the best thing is to use some processor which have emulated inside 68k commands. Assembler for 68k is the best which I saw ever.
Case should have something from classic Amigas like A3000D or A4000D, or little one like A500.
I don't know much about C= USA, but community should stick together, not fighting with each other.
Cheers,
Darek

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Spectre660 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 19:32:50
#406 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3771
From: Unknown

As Trevor is working on a next development project, which if it is the one to try to unite Amigans (refer to his Amiwest 2011 presentation), I have to pass on CUSA's offer.


Quote:
Poster: TrevorDick Date: 21-Dec-2011 5:35:44
I am also personally financing the next development effort which is already underway. Again there is no pre-funding requirement from customers. TrevorD PS Season greetings to all Amigans whatever your operating system of choice.

Last edited by Spectre660 on 22-Dec-2011 at 07:33 PM.


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redfox 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 20:19:37
#407 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1709
From: Canada

I see that all the links from this thread to the poll are already broken.

Last edited by redfox on 22-Dec-2011 at 08:20 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 21:06:39
#408 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@FLOPS

Welcome!

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 22:53:04
#409 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5664
From: Unknown

That we discuss with each other without bashing is a huge improvement and when the vast majority of developers and users (the customers) request cooperation it will be heard by the groups that are involved

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Middleman 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 23-Dec-2011 4:27:53
#410 ]
Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2011
Posts: 21
From: Unknown

Yes indeed, it is a welcome addition....

About the new 'advanced Amiga' two things spring to mind. Personally I really would like CUSA to produce something based on either PowerPC (Freescale Qoriq T5, the most-likely spiritual successor to the 68k) or Intel x86. x86 is great and in abundance, but looking back at its history it seems Hyperion would probably be against supporting it.

Now I ask this. How about an ARM-based Amiga? One that runs BOTH the new Windows 8 AND an ARM-ported version of AmigaOS? This would be a good idea...a system that appeals to both markets, and unique amongst itself. But the problem this becomes is, all x86-based and AmigaOS software (including Windows) MUST be ported over to ARM to work. Which is stupid and a waste of money. And who would want to be doing that?

So it comes back down to this....what do we do? Get AROS to be officially recognised by Amiga Inc? Amiga Inc. won't probably do it...yet. Either that, or CUSA simply 'drops' the Amiga name from its current high spec machines for 2012 and simply allow what is their Intel PC systems to become Commodore Intel towers/desktop/keyboards, thus allowing AROS to be officially included in them/installed by the user for the time being and leaving the Amiga name for a different perhaps even higher class platform when it is ready. What is that you say? A Motorola/Freescale Qoriq PowerPC AmigaOS4 Amiga. I wouldn't mind one of those in a new AIO/desktop case. :)

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linnar 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 23-Dec-2011 8:14:47
#411 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@AlexC
Quote:
/../ millions of people that's bound to upset the few hundreds or thousand of us who sacrificed so much to keep the dream alive...


I've been working on the Amiga or were supporters of Amiga from 1986!
Since 1994 I have seen those who defended the Amiga having to chase people away from the Amiga by their vulgar manner and total lack of willingness to compromise.
Every time there was no with fresh ideas put people in the Amiga Community heel and press down the idea into the ground without thinking.
I've seen it dozens of times. Therefore go Amiga Community backwards all the time. The ordinary people leaving the sinking ship first. What remains is the most antagonistic troublemakers who go through life with waves of constant fighting and bickering behind.
However, I believe that there are still people in the Amiga community that wants more than the Amiga being a simple pastime. I think there are people here who want to go ahead with the Amiga and let it become like the old days with huge demo Amiga meetings and lots of colorful magazines in newspaper shops. Each block had a group that paratde "Amiga" and so on. At the time, "PC" synonymous with something fun and fellowship that was hard to keep out.

Let us, for the 'Amiga' sake, gather us and lining up important points for the Amiga's future.
First, we ask ourselves how it looks now and then build on it.

What's now:

1 - Classic Amiga with the original OS
2 - PPC Amiga with AmigaOS 4.x
3 - x86 Amiga with Aros
4 - Other

Around the corner, we also see ARM coming soon.

I think we should concentrate on these three different varieties and have different players lead the way.

1 - No
2 - Aeon / Hyperion
3 - Aros Team / CUSA
4 - Mixed (these should be controlled up to any of paragraph 2-3).

I chose the CUSA and Hyperion / Aeon because they are the ones that exist today. In the future, maybe there are more players.
All OS should be developed by independent groups and not by companies. Hardware is very expensive to develop and will probably need to be developed and sold by commercial firms.

For everyone to pull together, an organization formed-"Amiga standardization agency" that determines how it should work, what should be included in an Amiga OS and more.

It does not look like I describe it but it must be organized so that everything does not spread too thin for it kills both the Amiga and the people's interest.

Let's start with letting CUSA develop hardware and may support an Amiga OS.
Do not count them out as many do here. The shows in fact that they are interested. Take hold of the outstretched hand and see what they can do.

Why is it so difficult?


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linnar 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 23-Dec-2011 8:57:28
#412 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

Quote:

TrevorDick
I am also personally financing the next development effort which is already underway. Again there is no pre-funding requirement from customers. TrevorD PS Season greetings to all Amigans whatever your operating system of choice.


It would be good to have more information about this initiative. Maybe CUSA and Trevor complementary. I think that it is not good to develop products in the same line. It is not cost effective.

Last edited by linnar on 23-Dec-2011 at 08:58 AM.


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http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 23-Dec-2011 9:34:37
#413 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5664
From: Unknown

I think you must add the Aros-Team and the maker of the new FPGAs (Natami, FPGA Arcade) because Aros is right now developing very dynamic and the 68k-platform is by far the most important right now (most software, most users)

+1

you are right, I created this discussion a couple of months before and the end was that it is not possible (because of personal and technical reasons). Perhaps there is a change of mind now. But of course the different groups then must accept to drop their own solutions in some cases and use standardized items. Then all platforms would benefit (including them).

The areas for cooperation in my view:
1. Common bounties (f.e. port of a office-package, common web-browser etc.). One personal comment from my view to Browsers. For such a small community it would be better to have one competitive browser (with plugins) that is developed and improved by all than to have 4 or five different that only implement parts of the standards.
2.Common drivers (f.e. Poseidon for USB). It would be far easier to talk with a printer producer when we would have common standards on all platforms, so that you only have to provide one driver for all platforms. This we need for PCI and USB. Or we need at least some sort of wrapper.
3.A kind of Amiga-Standardplatform with a set of libraries that is reliable available on all platforms so that it is as easy as possible to port software from one platform to another. That would it make easier to have crossplatform-bounties for software.
4.When we start 1-3 we can also improve our marketing to the outside and represent us as a unified community offering chances for developers and software companies instead of always bashing and talking that we are splitted.

P.S. this is the most constructive discussion I read in the last 12-18 months without any bashing. I think this is very encouraging.

One further comment: I do not think that creating a complete new system is realistic and necessary right now. The wishes are interesting for Acube and Hyperion for the future but right now I think it is more important to connect the different platforms and make as much available as possible on every platform (to have PPC available for the 68k-camp, to have Aros and MorphOS on the X1000 and the computer from Acube and to have AmigaOS also on (some) of the Macs). That are ports and in some cases (small) hardware.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 23-Dec-2011 at 09:43 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 23-Dec-2011 at 09:36 AM.

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linnar 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 23-Dec-2011 12:12:15
#414 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@OlafS25
Quote:
P.S. This is the most constructive discussion I read in the last 12-18 months without any bashing. I think this is very Encouraging.

One Further comment: I Do not Think That Creating a complete new system is realistic and Necessary right now. The wishes are interesting for Acube and Hyperion for the future but right now I think it is more important to connect The Different platforms and make as much available as Possible on every platform (to Have PPC available for the 68k-camp, to Have Aros and MorphOS on the X1000 and the computer from Acube and to Have AmigaOS Also on (some) of the Macs). Tickets are port and into some cases (small) hardware.


Agree, hope Amiga Community may agree on the same road (s).!

Last edited by linnar on 23-Dec-2011 at 12:13 PM.


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damocles 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 23-Dec-2011 12:58:14
#415 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

Quote:
You have a point but CUSA have not come out with anything to suggest how much these machines, beta or not, will cost. So if theyt turn round and say they want $2,500, which they have suggested once upon a time would be the going rate for their vision of the amiga, would you be happy throwing that into an escrow and having it basically sat there doing nothing?

They really need to think about at least telling us a ball park estimate for the case. That would be a start.


Because you have not told C=USA what you want. Mind readers, they are not. ;) Once there is a crystal clear product wanted with exact details, then C=USA can go price it out and report back.


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damocles 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 23-Dec-2011 13:07:54
#416 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

Quote:
But I thought CUSA had a $30 million budget?!

So why ask for money?


That $30M was to be spread over multiple years (think it was five years, may have been six). The other reason is what projects the online Amiga Community may want, probably is not going to sell well (think 10K units and higher) to the general public and would be a poor investment for C=USA. That is reason why no one wants to do specific large projects for this community, ROI is going to be down right ugly. Just look at Trevor's charity, I doubt he will make his money back let alone a profit.

This is not a typical retail to customer deal, this is really community to project manager deal since project manager is doing all this without profit in mind and possible future profit sales are pretty remote, at best.


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DocBrown 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 23-Dec-2011 15:21:07
#417 ]
New Member
Joined: 24-Jan-2006
Posts: 6
From: Unknown

Leo,

what has changed since Mr. Altmans strict 'No' to AROS? If users decide to go for an amigaish OS, you'll have to withdraw your offer for not losing the license to use the Amiga and Commodore brand names. At least, that was his argument for not using anything Amiga related except name and logo.

If this has been discussed already, I missed it reading the 987345389745 messages in this thread. Sorry for that.

Thank you,

Emmet

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bison 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 23-Dec-2011 18:15:47
#418 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1519
From: N-Space

@Middleman
Quote:
Get AROS to be officially recognised by Amiga Inc? Amiga Inc. won't probably do it...yet. Either that, or CUSA simply 'drops' the Amiga name from its current high spec machines for 2012 and simply allow what is their Intel PC systems to become Commodore Intel towers/desktop/keyboards, thus allowing AROS to be officially included in them/installed by the user for the time being and leaving the Amiga name for a different perhaps even higher class platform when it is ready

I could go for that. There's probably nothing to stop CUSA from selling a "Commodore C500" or even a "Commodore A500" with AROS preinstalled, so long as Amiga is never mentioned. Of course we don't know the details of the legal agreement between CUSA and Amiga Inc., so there may be problems even with that.

One cannot help but ponder how much nicer things would be if Amiga Inc. simply did not exist.


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DocBrown 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 23-Dec-2011 19:23:34
#419 ]
New Member
Joined: 24-Jan-2006
Posts: 6
From: Unknown

Quote:

[...] have different players lead the way.

[...]

I chose the CUSA and Hyperion / Aeon because they are the ones that exist today.

What does CUSA offer *today* that would support a claim to 'lead the way'?

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newlight 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 23-Dec-2011 19:33:24
#420 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Sep-2007
Posts: 1723
From: Somewhere in Spain

Again with this story..... Can i have a coupon? or a T-Shirt in the meanwhile??

Yes it was an illusion to me for the amazing Amiga One.

I trust on Commodore USA to make a new Commodore Amiga.


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