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Amigaworld.net News   Amigaworld.net News : Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
   posted by DaveyD on 13-Oct-2003 0:15:15 (8091 reads)
Session 21 of the Fortnightly Questions and Answers sessions with Amiga's Chief Technology Officer Fleecy Moss are now online.

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IonMane 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 0:12:40
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 550
From: Adelaide Australia.

I must admit that I was disappointed that Fleecy felt he could not say if Amiga Inc. had "recieved the financial windfall" of the gamepack sales.It is not any details I was asking for beyond that.
However, what he did say, combined with what Eyetech said about only producing new boards from the successful sales of the Aone, and rumblings from Hyperion(and other places) have lent themselves to the feeling that something quite big lurks just beneath the choppy waters which is the Amiga scene.

I look forward to OS4 being release as it is here that I expect to see alot of things revealed across the board, and alot of the FUD finally answered, not to mention the delivery of those thrice cursed t-shirts.


_________________

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MikeB 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 0:15:20
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@ gary_c

Quote:
is Fleecy that out of touch, and if so, why make up something about his brother-in-law's wedding? or was that a joke? or what?)


I was pretty surprised that some people made such a big deal out such a non-issue. Was it miscommunication or a joke, why should you care? I don't care so I haven't asked, but you seem to do so very much and thus why not email Fleecy about it?

The bottom line was that the downtime of Amiga's website was only temporary and that there was nothing to worry about unlike some others like to suggest.

I could list dozens of statements made by some other individuals you support which would be alot worse... Why even bother about something such insignificant? Amiga.com is again up and running for a long time already, you know?

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pods 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 3:37:38
#23 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2003
Posts: 339
From: Brunswick, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Quote:

AIUI, AmigaDE wasn't going to be integrated until AOS5.

Oh well - if Fleecy says OS4.x, then I'm happy


The AmigaDE wont be integrated untill OS5. However, the AmigaDE will be included earlier as a application, kinda like the PHP program on linux.

I was planned that the DE was goign to be included (not integrated) in OS4.2, but that may be sooner now? 4.1? Eventually, over time the DE will be integrated and OS5 marks the version of AmigaOS that will see it fully integrated. at least was/is the plan!

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pods 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 3:43:17
#24 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2003
Posts: 339
From: Brunswick, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Quote:

I agree with you. Question 1 was unnessecary and could
only lead to flame-instillment. Not only that, I think a very
similar question has been asked before in a Q&A (but in a
much "cleaner" way) - but my memory could be failing me.


The worst thing about those questions is that they are dead borring :) Personally, i hate them. I'd rather know other things that are worth knowing, like functionality in OS4, Java support or new applications/partners etc

Although, maybe we should think about stoping them untill after OS4 is released cause it seems fleecy is just repeating himself and people are finding it harder and harder to come up with questions, let alone interesting ones!

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cgutjahr 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 3:56:11
#25 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 901
From: Unknown

I have to agree with gary_c. While there are people trying to throw mud at Amiga Inc. every time the trademark is mentioned, a lot of negative things that were said about Amiga Inc. are simply true.

I understand that many visitors of this site are just bored to death or pissed off by all the flame fests and mud-slinging going on everywhere else. But this "it's all fud, don't believe the trolls" propaganda is pretty annoying.

Everybody who had a small glance at the court documents from the Thendic-Amniga case will have to agree that...

1. Amiga Inc. are broke (for quite some time)
2. Amiga Inc. didn't pay their employees (for quite some time)
3. Amiga Inc. got thrown out of their offices (quite some time ago)
4. Fleecy has lied to the community in the past ("we disconnected our phones because of the trolls")
5. Amiga Inc. lost their lawyers recently
6. ...

Sure, certain people have their own reasons to drag these things into the public over and over again - but does that turn federal court documents into "FUD`? I don't think so.

I'm not asking anybody to bash Amiga Inc. - but is it really neccessary to ask Fleecy if "all those fantasy stories" make him feel bad?

Question #1 shouldn't have been asked.

@MikeB:

Quote:

And although the company has gone through some stormy weathers (just like the original Amiga team) they are still standing and determined to succeed.

Boy, could you stop talking in Amiga Inc. marketing bubbles?

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Anonymous 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 4:47:17
# ]



MikeB wrote:
Quote:
I was pretty surprised that some people made such a big deal out such a non-issue. Was it miscommunication or a joke, why should you care?


Sorry, I said I wouldn't post again in this thread, but I just wanted to clarify, in answer to Mike's question. The issue wasn't the status of amiga.com; I think most people correctly assumed it was just some technical factor that caused the downtime. The issue is Fleecy's credibility. That's why people made a big deal out of it. Fleecy appeared to be serious in his explanation, an explanation that turned out to be totally incorrect. Further, it seems that Fleecy hadn't been in touch with Ray, the amiga.com site administrator, before taking it upon himself to answer people about the site downtime. So there's also communication trouble suggested.

My point was that Fleecy nowdays has very little credibility outside the hardcore Amiga, Inc. enthusiasts, and the downtime issue was just an example of why. By the same standard, Fleecy is seen as sort of making things up as he goes along on other topics as well, which is why these question-and-answer sessions aren't taken seriously by many people. Isn't it obvious that regular sessions with Alan Redhouse or the Friedens would be so much more substantial? But, of course they are busy actually doing things and don't have so much time for Q&A sessions, while Fleecy, not visibly doing anything tangible in regard to Amiga, ( ), can be generous with his time here. (The wink is because I'm sort of joking, but sort of serious; it seems AI overall is presently rather moribund, awaiting funding or divine intrevention or something.)

-- gary_c

 
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Anonymous 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 6:44:12
# ]



"lost" their lawyers?

This suggests it was on somehow bad terms or unwilling, I state again that we do not know the reason behind this parting of the ways between Amiga Inc and their legal representatives.

 
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cgutjahr 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 7:33:28
#28 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 901
From: Unknown

@DaveP:

My fault, didn't want to imply anything (I'm no native english speaker). You didn't supply a more neutral phrase, so I'll reword it to say:

5. Amiga Inc. do not have lawyers at the moment.

But my point still stands - it's worshiping like that that actually discourages me from visiting this site.

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MikeB 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 8:10:43
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@ gary_c

Quote:
My point was that Fleecy nowdays has very little credibility outside the hardcore Amiga, Inc. enthusiasts, and the downtime issue was just an example of why.


I doubt that. I would agree that the voices of some vocal extremists (the same ones who spread nonsense that the Q&A sessions were propoganda since its start and it was some evil plan executed by me personally, while David and Fleecy arranged these Q&As) did quite some damage, but I believe the majority of people stand above this all.

My point was that your example (hyped at various forums) is extremely insignificant and could easily have been an innocent mistake. The really malicious stuff has come from other people. Why wouldn't misinformation and FUD regarding really important issues damage their reputations?

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Anonymous 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 8:12:56
# ]



@cgutjahr

Some people have a tendancy to overstate the case and some a tendancy
to understate the case.

What we need is people that can articulate whatever their
spin is on the case in a reasonable way.

I don't see the /site/ worshipping anything other than perhaps having
an unreasonable attachment to their Amiga kit ( which is just
fandom - some people favour certain car manufacturers over
another in a similar unreasonable way ).

Some individuals might read the overly best in every situation
and some the overly worst, but that is just individuals. Either stick around to change the discussion merely by being here or let the sites' community set its
own course without you

Oh and "worshipping" is also has emotional if not insulting overtones
when applied to a point of view - not being too familiar with the
language you would probably not know this - just a tip!

 
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MikeB 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 8:24:45
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@ cgutjahr

First of all welcome to AmigaWorld.

Quote:
Boy, could you stop talking in Amiga Inc. marketing bubbles?


I just felt like saying something nice when people spread negative simplifications.

During my childhood I always confronted bullies (me being tall and all) when they were trying to damage some nice kid who was unable to defend himself/herself. I am not saying this is the case here, but kind of my personal nature.

I know there are many nice people working for Amiga Inc and IMO they are often attacked and discredited for nothing.

Quote:
1. Amiga Inc. are broke (for quite some time)


The current financial status of Amiga Inc is not public knowledge.

Quote:
2. Amiga Inc. didn't pay their employees (for quite some time)


This is mostly true with regard to the staff themselves (80+%), but the current Amiga employees have chosen to continue their work at full force. Quite similar to the original Amiga team I must add and the competitors criticizing Amiga for their financial issues have been in similar positions in the past.

Quote:
4. Fleecy has lied to the community in the past ("we disconnected our phones because of the trolls")


Which might just as well be correct, as this would be a waste of resources. The Amiga team was always reachable though for various people who needed to get into contact.

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DC_Edge 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 9:08:54
#32 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Oct-2003
Posts: 185
From: France

Quote:
1. Amiga Inc. are broke (for quite some time)


You know what?
All these people at Amiga, being paid or not at still working, that's their choice. Think about the opensource community....many good personns are working for free bu dozen of hours, just because they are hoping something.

And you know what?

You are easy with criticism, but what have YOU done since some years for the Amiga? Are you involved in any project? Dii you port any application? Or eventually created one? Have you been in contact with Amiga Inc in order to bring something?
no?

Many who have done efforts with Amiga Inc to bring something cool (with DE or OS4) knows that sacrifice worth the pain.

And by talkibng about trolls, Flececy was talking about guys like you who shout everywhere and make so many noise that's it's impossible for others to work.

You know what? If MOS is better, go to MOS and never come back! Go see your famous bbrv, this man has been assigned by the French law courts times ago, he is a specialist of lawcourts....And noone at amiga is throwing him rocks just because he has a really, really fozzy past with lawcourts!

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MikeB 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 9:16:21
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@ DC_Edge

Please try not to get personal here.

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DC_Edge 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 9:18:11
#34 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Oct-2003
Posts: 185
From: France

Quote:
My point was that Fleecy nowdays has very little credibility outside the hardcore Amiga, Inc. enthusiasts, and the downtime issue was just an example of why.


If it can be of any interest for you, Fleecy is considered by one of the best by many DE developers, just because he always have great ideas, and he's abilities are better that enyone here in development.

Fleecy don't need to be recognized by all the community, he's main skills are development, those who are working with him know who he is.

For the public, Fleecy is just an Amuiga member. Fleecy is talking to the community just because he is one of the less "disturbed" by rumors and trolls.

And do you know why? Just because he is working so hard that everyone who knows him can't spread false information about him.

Keep coOl guy, and talk about think you know and not thinks your cristall ball told you.

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DC_Edge 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 9:19:28
#35 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Oct-2003
Posts: 185
From: France

Quote:
Please try not to get personal here.


NP, just annoyed by false facts.

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MikeB 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 9:31:32
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@ DC_Edge

Quote:
NP, just annoyed by false facts.


I understand. But instead just challenge any such people for an UT DeathMatch and then blow their ugly heads off!!

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cgutjahr 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 10:37:23
#37 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 901
From: Unknown

@DaveP:

Quote:

Some people have a tendancy to overstate the case and some a tendancy to understate the case.

I'm sorry, but I think there's quite a difference between "understating the case" and implying that all the bad news about Amiga Inc. are completely made up ("all those fantasy stories").

Quote:

What we need is people that can articulate whatever their spin is on the case in a reasonable way.

Yep, that's what gary_c did IMHO.

But what "we" (I'm just the newbie) also need is a more neutral attitude towards Amiga Inc. They have made numerous mistakes in the past (IMHO). I don't see what is to be gained by constantly downplaying this.

Quote:

I don't see the /site/ worshipping

The site admins/moderators pick the questions that Fleecy has to answer. Obviously, they thought that question #1 should have been asked. IMHO, #1 is a prime example for a question that shouldn't be asked.

Quote:

Either stick around to change the discussion merely by being here or let the sites' community set its
own course without you

My point is that the site admins are actively encouring the very attitude that "puzzles" me (see my reply to MikeB for examples). I think that was one of the things you disliked about Amiga.org in the past (at least I did).

Quote:

Oh and "worshipping" is also has emotional if not insulting overtones when applied to a point of view - not being too familiar with the language you would probably not know this - just a tip!

Didn't want to insult anybody. Though I was aware that it is a negative term.

@MikeB:

Quote:

First of all welcome to AmigaWorld.

Thanks.

Quote:

I know there are many nice people working for Amiga Inc and IMO they are often attacked and discredited for nothing.

Probably. But that doesn't mean that there are only nice people and that they are always attacked for nothing.

Quote:

Quote:

1. Amiga Inc. are broke (for quite some time)

The current financial status of Amiga Inc is not public knowledge.

The current financial status was disclosed by Bill McEwen himself a few weeks ago ("a hundred dollars in our bank account, no further money"). Additionally (if I correctly understood the documents available at Rich's site) any future revenue must be reported to the court and must be used to pay Bolton Peck (and probably Matt Fontenot, though I'm not sure about that).

Quote:

Quote:

2. Amiga Inc. didn't pay their employees (for quite some time)

This is mostly true with regard to the staff themselves (80+%),

Why is it just "mostly" true? Who does get paid?
If nobody gets paid, it's completely true.

Quote:

but the current Amiga employees have chosen to continue their work at full force.

Not relevant in this context.

Quote:

Quite similar to the original Amiga team I must add

Come on, we're all adults, aren't we?

Quote:

Quote:

4. Fleecy has lied to the community in the past ("we disconnected our phones because of the trolls")

Which might just as well be correct, as this would be a waste of resources.

They have disconnected their phones after they've been thrown out of their offices? How could they suffer from trolls phoning them, if they didn't have access to the telephones in question?

Quote:

The Amiga team was always reachable though for various people who needed to get into contact.

True, but not relevant in this context.

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cgutjahr 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 11:00:01
#38 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 901
From: Unknown

@DC_Edge:

Quote:

You know what?
All these people at Amiga, being paid or not at still working, that's their choice. Think about the opensource community....many good personns are working for free bu dozen of hours, just because they are hoping something.

I don't understand what that has got to do with anything. This weeks Q&A session features a question which directly implies that all bad news about Amiga Inc. are completely made up. I just listed examples for bad news about Amiga Inc. that are true.

Quote:

You are easy with criticism, but what have YOU done since some years for the Amiga? Are you involved in any project? Dii you port any application? Or eventually created one?

I don't know what my personal achievements have got to do with this. But the answer to all of your questions would be yes.

Quote:

Have you been in contact with Amiga Inc in order to bring something?

Yes.

Quote:

You know what? If MOS is better, go to MOS and never come back! Go see your famous bbrv, this man has been assigned by the French law courts times ago, he is a specialist of lawcourts....And noone at amiga is throwing him rocks just because he has a really, really fozzy past with lawcourts!

Boy, you really need to get more relaxed. I'm not interested in MOS at all.

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MikeB 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 11:13:52
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@ cgutjahr

Quote:
I'm sorry, but I think there's quite a difference between "understating the case" and implying that all the bad news about Amiga Inc. are completely made up ("all those fantasy stories").


I don't know of any such people. Even Amiga Inc's staff members have publicly stated on various occasions that they were dealing with tight financials. So what would be the point of doing such a thing?

However ALOT of stuff is being made up and spread around the web and the same trolls have been proven wrong time and time over again.

Quote:
But what "we" (I'm just the newbie) also need is a more neutral attitude towards Amiga Inc. They have made numerous mistakes in the past (IMHO). I don't see what is to be gained by constantly downplaying this.


Amiga Inc has made mistakes in the past as the staff have stated so themselves. If you would need to summ up the companies within the Amiga community with near spotless track records (except for Hyperion, Eyetech and Individual Computers) you will IMO end up with a very short list.

Quote:
The site admins/moderators pick the questions that Fleecy has to answer. Obviously, they thought that question #1 should have been asked. IMHO, #1 is a prime example for a question that shouldn't be asked.


There is a lack of questions and therefor I believe this staff member did not have much choice. And sadly these issues are in fact very relevant to the current status of the Amiga community.

Quote:
The current financial status was disclosed by Bill McEwen himself


During those months things can change and so the current financial status of Amiga Inc is not public knowledge. Needless to say Amiga Inc intends to meet all financial obligations when they can.

Quote:
Why is it just "mostly" true? Who does get paid?


Financial specifics are not public knowledge.

Quote:
Come on, we're all adults, aren't we?


Don't know, at least I know I am. Seriously Jay Miner's team continued to do an excellent job when their resources dried up and the company was in depth for over 10 million USD.

Quote:
They have disconnected their phones after they've been thrown out of their offices? How could they suffer from trolls phoning them, if they didn't have access to the telephones in question?


I won't pretend to know the specifics and timing of these events and IMO neither should anyone else other than Amiga staff.

I do know however that at least here in the Netherlands it is not rocket science to call the telephone company and have your phonenumber redirected to another location. (e.g. to a cellphone)

Quote:
True, but not relevant in this context.


IMO that is the most relevant point in this context.

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Anonymous 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 21
Posted on 14-Oct-2003 11:15:05
# ]



You know it's kind of ironic, theres fleecy saying there are people who go out of their way to sling mud in the amiga market, and here are people who say it's not true, and then proceed to sling mud in all directions.

I thought Amiga World had a fascist moderation policy, I remember people making a big thing of it elsewhere. I demand over the top moderation policys. All I ever see is the same old arguments over and over again. Arguments that never had any merits to begin with, and still have no merits, nothing new or exciting is added to freshen the same old invalid arguments, it's the same old crap over and over again.

I am not the only person bored with people who feel the need to pick up the smallest most irrelevant things and shout about them.

Maybe the people with penchant for continually repeating the same old crap over and over again could just create a website with their views and arguments and everytime they feel the need to tell us something we don't care about, they can instead just point us to their website.
It would save everyone time, and effort.

In my opinion calling fleecys integrity into question is a personal attack. Infact it probably boarders on harrasment, which if not elsewhere is certainly illegal in the UK.
Attacking Amiga is also pointless, if you have a serious issue with Amiga, then take it to court.
Anything else is just a concerted attack to undermine their company, and damage it's reputation. And such defamatory material is called libel, and as such illegal.

I hope one day the people responsible for such things get the tables turned and they and their familys, are jepordised by a hoard of crazy fantics, who ruin their lifes and business when they are just trying to make a living.

All the people at Amiga inc. are people who have their own lives and familys to look after, and everytime someone does their best to damage Amiga, it effects the people and their familys, people who don't deserve to be victimised in such a manner.

And it cuts both ways, the people behind Genesi, and MorphOS, Hyperion, etc. are all people with their own lives, and when idiots in the community go round throwing up mud and not thinking of their consequences, people suffer, and it may not be you, but someone does.

So it'd be nice if there people were a little more responsible about what goes on in the community.

 
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