Hi, what left me is a big question i would like to know...

I do own the A1/OS4-system and feel very happy about it, but then i can't help thinking about that at present, the Pegasos-II/MorphOS-system, seems to offer the best of compatibility, stability and a lot of new games all running perfectly under MorphOS...

What is insteresting to know is that the kernel of MorphOS use TWO set of PPC-libraries. PPC.library and the WarpUP.library. As well as the 3D-graphic system, it uses two types. Warp3D and Rave3D. A combination of Picasso and CyberGraphic graphic system..In other words, the kernel is compatible with the PowerUP and WarpUP PPC-solutions...Why isn't this the case with the OS4 kernel?

I know that the OS4 is still under development and not completed yet, and that several more AmigaOnes with updated and new hardwares are on the way. Is just that i feel unsure about what system is the best, and i still wonder how the final version of OS4 will be, and if this one will be beyond that of MorphOS..

Please help me, i am very confused now. Sticking to the A1/OS4 and watch its development closely, or going for the Pegasos-II/MorphOS-system and being able to run ALL the Amiga-programs to date...?

@Helgis

I don't understand way you bring this up at this stage you know what features that are planed for AmigaOS40, so the incompatibility so to speak are temporary, AmigaOS40 will soon be on the same level and more.

and NO the update will not contain Warp3D nor will it contain PowerUP, WarpUP,

if you don't remember the AmigaOS40 features then go and read the features at os.amiga.com

(MorphOS use CyberGraphics is compatible whit Picasso
AmigaOS40 used Picasso it's compatible whit CyberGraphis, same ting)

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@Helgis

I think Hyperion sacrificed some compatability to improve its overall capabilities (such as memory protection which is not present on MorphOS) and to add a hardware abstraction layer to make it portable to other hardware in the future. (MorphOS is tied to the Pegsos hardware and always will be.)

@Helgis
Quote:

Please help me, i am very confused now. Sticking to the A1/OS4 and watch its development closely, or going for the Pegasos-II/MorphOS-system and being able to run ALL the Amiga-programs to date...?

Pegasos/Morphos does NOT run all amiga programs either.. If you want the best compatibility with almost every piece of amiga software you should simply run winuae..

Gees, maybe you guys are right? Must be my lack of patience. So in other words, the OS4 will be an "open" system, and not tied to the hardware, as MorphOS seem to be? I'm sure the final version of OS4 will be pretty interesting...

I know most of the features. I just don't quite know what these features will do when the final version of OS4 will arrive..

@Helgis

"...Why isn't this the case with the OS4 kernel?"

Probably woldn't be too eficient. And it doesn't make sense to have a whole set a APIs there must be a standard.
The AmigaOS4 kernel is mostly API compatible with 3.x kernel, what can be better?

By they way, on MOS those Warp3d, Warpup, powerup and picasso compatibilities you mention are base around emulation. Last I heard that's planned to AOS4 too. Still I hope most coders will do a native AOS4 version of their programs and don't rely on emulation compatibility layers.

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@Samurai_Crow
Sorry, but thats awfully wrong ....

MorphOS does provide full MP, only it isn't really usefull atm since the whole ABox is seen as one Task/Thread/whatever.

OS4 does offer "optional"/"limited" MP, which isn't really anything else than what enforcer&co could do on 3.x (and what is also available in the ABox).

Full MP and an Amiga-compatible API are 2 things that don't work together and never will.

One might create an API close to the Amiga-API with full MP, that allows some level of source-code compabilty (it would still need lots of manual editing for all non-trivial apps), but binary-compability is completly out inside that APi.

That is what MorphOS is aiming at with upcoming Q/Box and Hyperion will need to do in OS4.2/5. Only difference is that MOS allready has the foundations for it (and the a way to run legacy apps "boxed" inside such a system) with the Quark-kernel.

@Helgis
It's a bit different, the MOS-ABox has a compabilty-layer for PuP/WOS, but none of these directly represent the kernel.

GOA is just a wrapper that calls Rave3D when ever an apps asks for W3D, it doesn't have direct HW-access.

There is no P96-emu intregrated with MOS (not much point as there is hardly any SW exclusily useing the P96-API), but one might get lucky withe P96Emu from Aminet.

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@Samurai_Crow

OS4 does not and will not contain more memory protection than MorphOS
does. The two systems are quite similar in this respect, which is not
surprising as what can be done is dictated by backwards compatibility
with Amiga applications.

MorphOS of course contains a HAL too, and can be easily ported to any
hardware. It is not tied to the Pegasos computers in any way.

As I know discussion about MorphOS is not encouraged on this website I
will not add any more comments, but I just wanted to correct this
obvious misinformation.

@Samurai_Crow

"(MorphOS is tied to the Pegsos hardware and always will be.)"

I'm not a MOS guy but I think that's not true. MOS has a HAL too. The most likely thing is that they didn't want to make a more up to date Classic Amiga PPC version of MOS to make people switch to the Pegasus.

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José

@Kronos

Quote:

@Samurai_Crow Sorry, but thats awfully wrong .... MorphOS does provide full MP, only it isn't really useful atm since the whole ABox is seen as one Task/Thread/whatever. OS4 does offer "optional"/"limited" MP, which isn't really anything else than what enforcer&co could do on 3.x (and what is also available in the ABox).

This is temporary solution, It's expected that OS3.x programs will be ported or replaced, when full memory protection is enabled,

Quote:

Full MP and an Amiga-compatible API are 2 things that don't work together and never will.

the compatibility found in AmigaOS40 provides a clear split between old and new, by providing tow API's one for classic AmigaOS programs and one for AmigaOS40 programs, this allows a box emulation to be implemented in the future quite easily, whit full MP

Quote:

One might create an API close to the Amiga-API with full MP, that allows some level of source-code compatibility (it would still need lots of manual editing for all non-trivial apps), but binary-compatibility is completely out inside that APi.

This is what ExecSG is, new guide lines are written for the OS that developers most follow to support the OS in future versions, I the current version of AmigaOS40 you most shore to define shared memory for memory areas to be distributed to other programs and kernel api's that require this, this is needed for full MP to work whit AmigaOS API's

Quote:

That is what MorphOS is aiming at with upcoming Q/Box and Hyperion will need to do in OS4.2/5. Only difference is that MOS already has the foundations for it (and the a way to run legacy apps "boxed" inside such a system) with the Quark-kernel.

this is just wrong... read the AmigaOS40 SDK and you know!!!

Quote:

@Helgis It's a bit different, the MOS-ABox has a compatibility-layer for PuP/WOS, but none of these directly represent the kernel. GOA is just a wrapper that calls Rave3D when ever an apps asks for W3D, it doesn't have direct HW-access. There is no P96-emu integrated with MOS (not much point as there is hardly any SW exclusily using the P96-API), but one might get lucky with P96Emu from Aminet.

PowerUP and WarpUP layers for backwards compatibility, and they will be implemented in AmigaOS40

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@Helgis

Now this is a dangerous topic...so I'm probably better off saying as little as possible. But to sum it up:
I think MOS had a head start, but AOS is catching up, and will go farther than MOS.

We'll see.

Kay

Bring on the Trolls!

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@Helgis

Quote:

What is insteresting to know is that the kernel of MorphOS use TWO set of PPC-libraries.

They don't use two sets of libraries, the offer a WarpUp and a PowerUp emulation. We will most likely incorporate a WarpUp emulation as well, although I don't see much point therein. For one thing "they" need WarpUp compatibility, among other things, for running our games, which will run natively on AmigaOS 4.0. There isn't an awful lot of software out there that runs on either WarpOS or PowerUP which isn't open-source. The only real reason for WarpOS compatibility I see is Wipeout.

Quote:

Warp3D and Rave3D.

Warp3D on MorphOS is a blatant rip-off. I remember the outcries when Picasso96 emulated the CGX API (all that Screen-semaphore nonsense), but when "they" do it it seems to be OK.

Quote:

Why isn't this the case with the OS4 kernel?

For WarpUp compatibility, see above. For Rave3D vs. Warp3D I don't see much point in having both. Rave is long abandoned by Apple in favour of OpenGL, and Warp3D is strictly limited to the Amiga.

Quote:

Is just that i feel unsure about what system is the best, and i still wonder how the final version of OS4 will be, and if this one will be beyond that of MorphOS..

That's the "the grass is always greener on the other side" effect I guess. I think you should wait for the update (which is, REALLY REALLY soon now) and re-evaluate the situation.

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@Helgis

I would be intrested in a frank discussion on the capabilities of the two Machiines & thier respective OS'es

I don't want a flame war going on between the two camps. I've always believed that (puts on fire retardant suit) the amiga was only ever about being the best OS and hardware and never about being 68k, Yes it was a brilliant machine to work with and god do I hate windows, but you see if the aros project had been taken up by more people and was producing a complete OS with the look and feel of the Amiga OS coz lets face it if you take the machine away and look a usability we all loved it. I have looked at AROS and it relit my fever for amiga not that it ever went away, and I will be buying an AmigaOne and will probably think of buying a Peg2 ( I want to develope software in my spare time and I want it to be cross platform as much as possible)

What I would like is for people WHO have these machines to inform me/us of thier capibilities and not turn around and say your os doesn't do this and mine does, just say we can do this or that and lets figure out just how different they are.

so in conclusion if you don't have a peg or A1 don't say what it does coz that will start a flame way say things like we can do x ro are developing technology Y and lets see what happens

but please no rumours.

neither OS is finished in my opinion ok peg is at 1.5 is it but its early days for both.

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Aldur
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@Merko, Kronos

It never ceases to amaze me how much you folks pretend to know about what AmigaOS 4.0 has or does not have and will have or will never have.

I'd like to ask you not to make any statements about this, since plainly you don't know.

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@aldur

I would be intrested in a frank discussion on the capabilities of the two Machiines & thier respective OS'es

Can somebody pass the Bucket ? (I mean coder). IIRC he has both systems

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@Seer

that would be a start an evaluation from someone that has both systems and who knows them pretty well would be great

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@Merko

Quote:

but I just wanted to correct this

Then don't spread misinformation yourself. OS4 will have full memory protection.

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All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

@Rogue

Quote:

That's the "the grass is always greener on the other side" effect I guess. I think you should wait for the update (which is, REALLY REALLY soon now) and re-evaluate the situation.

You know, I've seen the phrase 'really soon now' so many times recently that I'm thinking of obtaining a trademark on it and charging people to use it. That way I'd get rich while I'm waiting

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@A1200

no one are allowed to troll, any one that troll will be dismissed from the forum, and this is an AmigaOS4 + AmigaOS3 forum only, if you don't respect this then you have problem. I'm quite shore this tread is going to be locked quite soon

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