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/  Forum Index
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      /  Interesting Natami article on HWUpgrade
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AmigaBlitter 
Interesting Natami article on HWUpgrade
Posted on 21-May-2010 8:28:48
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3524
From: Unknown

Here is an interesting Natami article on the HWUpgrade italian website. The article talks about the potential of this project. The author (that seems really a skilled ex Amiga developer) give some interesting suggestions to improve the project.

http://www.appuntidigitali.it/9907/native-amiga-natami-il-vero-erede-dellamiga/

The article is in italian.


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pavlor 
Re: Interesting Natami article on HWUpgrade
Posted on 21-May-2010 8:44:09
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9786
From: Unknown

@AmigaBlitter

Nice. Natami is one of the most ambitious projects in the world of Amiga, I hope they will release it soon. However, as stated author of this article, Voodoo like GFX card performance is not very appealing for anyone outside our community - of course, low end user price can solve this problem.


(and thanks to Google...)

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kadenaa 
Re: Interesting Natami article on HWUpgrade
Posted on 21-May-2010 9:20:01
#3 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Apr-2003
Posts: 145
From: Sydney

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:
The article is in italian.


:( Any chance of a summary of what is said or is there nothing that is not common knowledge in the article.

KAd.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Interesting Natami article on HWUpgrade
Posted on 21-May-2010 9:24:23
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3524
From: Unknown

@pavlor

He give these suggestions to the Natami team:

Personalmente, dopo anni passati a lavorare con questi splendidi processori, apporterei le seguenti aggiunte:

LEA ,Dn ; calcola l’indirizzo effettivo e lo copia in Dn
MOVEZW.B ,Dn ; preleva il byte da , lo estende con zero a word, e lo copia in Dn
MOVEZL.B ,Dn ; preleva il byte da , lo estende con zero a longword, e lo copia in Dn
MOVEZL.W ,Dn ; preleva la word da , la estende con zero a longword, e la copia in Dn
MOVESW.B ,Dn ; preleva il byte da , lo estende con segno a word, e lo copia in Dn
MOVESL.B ,Dn ; preleva il byte da , lo estende con segno a longword, e lo copia in Dn
MOVESL.W ,Dn ; preleva la word da , la estende con segno a longword, e la copia in Dn
MOVEcc Dx,Dy ; copia Dx in Dy solo se la condizione cc è soddisfatta
MOVEcc Ax,Ay ; copia Ax in Ay solo se la condizione cc è soddisfatta
BSWAP Dn ; inverte l’ordine dei byte (il più alto si scambia di posto col più basso, il secondo si scambia col terzo)
SHLD #n,Dx,Dy ; esegue uno shift a sinistra di n, considerando Dx e Dy come un unico registro a 64 bit
SHLD Dn,Dx,Dy ; esegue uno shift a sinistra di Dn, considerando Dx e Dy come un unico registro a 64 bit
SHRD #n,Dx,Dy ; esegue uno shift a destra di n, considerando Dx e Dy come un unico registro a 64 bit
SHRD Dn,Dx,Dy ; esegue uno shift a destra di Dn, considerando Dx e Dy come un unico registro a 64 bit
JMPT.W ; esegue un salto all’indirizzo calcolato prendendo la word all’indirizzo , estendendola con segno, moltiplicandola per due, e sommandola al PC
JSRT.W ; esegue un salto alla subroutine il cui indirizzo è calcolato prendendo la word all’indirizzo , estendendola con segno, moltiplicandola per due, e sommandola al PC
A parte la prima e le ultime due, le altre sono mutuate da equivalenti istruzioni degli x86, perché sono oggettivamente utili (specialmente la MOVEcc, che permette di evitare che la pipeline si stalli).

La LEA con copia su registro dati serve a simulare l’esecuzione di un’operazione di somma che può prevedere diversi operandi sorgente e una destinazione, che può coprire agevolmente (e in maniera decisamente compatta) l’assenza di un’istruzione a 3 operandi tipica di molti RISC.

Le JMPT e JSRT servono, invece, a eseguire salti fruttando una tabella di word contenente l’offset rispetto al PC, in modo da realizzare delle jump-table più compatte da impiegare per emulatori o per le istruzioni switch / case di linguaggi di programmazione come C o Pascal.

Modificherei anche il registro dei flag, CCR, aggiungendone due (ai 5 già presenti) per poter decidere in maniera programmatica se utilizzare il little endian per leggere e scrivere i dati (i 68000 sono rigorosamente big endian), e per imporre un controllo sul registro indirizzi nelle modalità d’indirizzamento verso la memoria che lo prevedono (sollevando un’apposita eccezione se risulta zero, in modo da intercettare il dereferenziamento di puntatori nulli).

Sono assolutamente contrario all’introduzione di istruzioni che prevedano operazioni come somme e sottrazione con saturazione et similia, oppure somme e sottrazioni con interi a 8 o 16 bit packed (quindi vettorizzate), perché preferisco che siano introdotte in un’eventuale unità SIMD.

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Nibunnoichi 
Re: Interesting Natami article on HWUpgrade
Posted on 21-May-2010 9:41:07
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2004
Posts: 974
From: Roma + Milano, Italia

@kadenaa

Quote:

kadenaa wrote:
@AmigaBlitter
Quote:
The article is in italian.

:( Any chance of a summary of what is said or is there nothing that is not common knowledge in the article.
KAd.

Nothing unheard of about the project, it's an informative article targeted at a community that may have never heard anything about it.
Anyhow, on the final part, the author (who seems rather knowledgeable of both Amiga and lowlevel programming) shares some of his own good suggestions for the Natami's developers.

_________________
Proud Amigan since 1987
Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
See them on http://retro.furinkan.org/

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Arko 
Re: Interesting Natami article on HWUpgrade
Posted on 21-May-2010 10:11:28
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@kadenaa

Quote:

kadenaa wrote:
@AmigaBlitter

Quote:
The article is in italian.


:( Any chance of a summary of what is said or is there nothing that is not common knowledge in the article.

KAd.


Google Translator may be with you:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.appuntidigitali.it%2F9907%2Fnative-amiga-natami-il-vero-erede-dellamiga%2F&sl=it&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

Last edited by Arko on 21-May-2010 at 10:14 AM.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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kadenaa 
Re: Interesting Natami article on HWUpgrade
Posted on 21-May-2010 11:15:24
#7 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Apr-2003
Posts: 145
From: Sydney

@Arko

Quote:
Google Translator may be with you:


Yes, the problem with these things is that often the meaning gets completely distorted. Also the translation reads very poorly even if the sense of it is still intact. If there was new information in there I'd put the effort in. Ah well still waiting on the X1000, Natami and my Pandora pre order. Seems I just spend all my time waiting. Ah well and me signed off work sick and all, I wish I just had one new toy to play with.

Kad.

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Arko 
Re: Interesting Natami article on HWUpgrade
Posted on 21-May-2010 11:34:12
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@kadenaa

Quote:

kadenaa wrote:
@Arko

Quote:
Google Translator may be with you:


Yes, the problem with these things is that often the meaning gets completely distorted. Also the translation reads very poorly even if the sense of it is still intact. If there was new information in there I'd put the effort in. Ah well still waiting on the X1000, Natami and my Pandora pre order. Seems I just spend all my time waiting. Ah well and me signed off work sick and all, I wish I just had one new toy to play with.


As far as I understood from the translated article, there is nothing new for people who kept informed by the Natami board. The article was written for people outside the community- He wrote some own comments about the project that will make the article intersting.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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