@Hammer
Quote:

Are you claiming MacOS X is virus free?

Yes, actually, that's true. There aren't any. As in, an integer that is less than one but greater than negative-one.

As for the "that's only because there are so few Macs" argument, well, that can't be true because then there wouldn't be any viruses for MacOS9 and earlier, but there are. (Not vast numbers, but they certainly exist.) OSX is just more secure, that's all. It's not 100% secure, but probably enough to discourage many of the hackers even if it got huge market share numbers. Viruses don't "just happen," they need "hooks" of some sort to spread, which OSX lacks, to some degree anyway.


And the Mac Mini, well, it's SO not "ugly", in fact it's "wow that's cute, I kinda want one even though I have no use for it". (The blue and white G3 was a good design? Bleh, I have one at work and it looks like a stupid toy.) The Mini IS cute, I DO kinda want one...but no, I have better things to do with $500. Like an x800 for my dual G5.

The "threat to A1" factor...I dunno, I'm not giving up my A1 (I would like more time to play around with OS4 though). People who want AmigaOS are going to get AmigaOS, and people who don't, won't, and I'm not sure how the Mac Mini changes anything really. What has changed things, maybe, is that over the last year or two, OSX has actually gotten kind of...good. It doesn't suck half as much as Windows, and it's less annoying than Linux. And it's WAY less aggravating than "Classic" MacOS. (It still needs screens or virtual desktops or something, though. Expose helps a lot but it's not quite enough.)

--Eric

@eric5h5

Quote:

eric5h5 wrote: @Hammer Quote: Are you claiming MacOS X is virus free? Yes, actually, that's true. There aren't any. As in, an integer that is less than one but greater than negative-one. As for the "that's only because there are so few Macs" argument, well, that can't be true because then there wouldn't be any viruses for MacOS9 and earlier, but there are. (Not vast numbers, but they certainly exist.) OSX is just more secure, that's all. It's not 100% secure, but probably enough to discourage many of the hackers even if it got huge market share numbers. Viruses don't "just happen," they need "hooks" of some sort to spread, which OSX lacks, to some degree anyway.

Actually it´s the exact opposite!
Remmeber the "Hack-a-Mac" contest back in OS 8 days?
You wanna try that with OSX?

@Dan
Quote:

Actually it´s the exact opposite!

Um, no, it's not. It's true what I said: There aren't any viruses for OSX, and there are for OS9 and earlier. I've encountered a few in real life. Recently.

Quote:

Remmeber the "Hack-a-Mac" contest back in OS 8 days?

No, I wasn't paying much attention to the Mac scene then.... (I've been using MacOS since 7.6, but only because I had to. 10.3 is the first version I would use voluntarily...the only way to "fix" MacOS was to ditch it and start over...and it still took a while.... I doubt Windows will ever get there. AmigaOS got there a fair while ago. :)

--Eric

@Intuitioned

i think it comes down to advertising, you may have a great product but if badly advertised it will fail, I've seen so much of this in the last 20 yrs.

I still hear people comment when I mention I own an Amiga, replies like "oh the games machine" I have to put them right, its not a games machine its far more than that.

the MAC Mini is great but I'm an AMIGA user so it would be nice to see something similair for the Amiga.

_________________
Ade
--
A1200 PPC, Powered by AmigaOS 3.1.4

@eric5h5

Quote:

eric5h5 wrote: @Dan Quote: Actually it´s the exact opposite! Um, no, it's not. It's true what I said: There aren't any viruses for OSX, and there are for OS9 and earlier. I've encountered a few in real life. Recently.

Maybe not yet but they will come.
I can´t imagine that it´s harder to write viruses for OSX with all it´s BSD stuff than the old mac-os. Internet-worms and such is probably easier.Hey didn´t I read about the first spyware for OSX a couple of weeks ago.

Quote:

Remmeber the "Hack-a-Mac" contest back in OS 8 days?

Quote:

No, I wasn't paying much attention to the Mac scene then.... (I've been using MacOS since 7.6, but only because I had to. 10.3 is the first version I would use voluntarily...the only way to "fix" MacOS was to ditch it and start over...and it still took a while.... I doubt Windows will ever get there. AmigaOS got there a fair while ago. :) --Eric

But Mac was much cooler back then, and so was mac-users less unix-geeks
"Think different" not anymore.

@Dan
Quote:

I can´t imagine that it´s harder to write viruses for OSX with all it´s BSD stuff than the old mac-os

It's probably not harder to WRITE them, but it's a lot harder to SPREAD them. Classic MacOS has no permissions or passwords or anything; the OS will do pretty much whatever any old program tells it to do, and the user is none the wiser.

Quote:

Hey didn´t I read about the first spyware for OSX a couple of weeks ago.

Yes, the one where you need to have actual physical access to the machine to install it. I am greatly worried about that...or not....

Quote:

But Mac was much cooler back then

Nope, it was for one-button-mouse dorks back then. Macs are cool now, maybe not as cool as Amigas but at least you don't have to be embarrassed to use them. :)

--Eric

Quote:

adrianebrown wrote: the MAC Mini is great but I'm an AMIGA user so it would be nice to see something similair for the Amiga.

Hi adrianebrown,


Yeah, that's as close as I'm getting to Mac. Sorry Apple, I don't need a second environment.

The MacMini has nice looks, and can be used right out of the box. On the other hand, an A1 has to be built (just like a PeeCee), and costs much more...

I think A1 should have an identity (appart from the only peculiarity, the AOS4) and be recognised with a glance (just like the classics or the Macs).

Apple excells in design, and has proven this many times in the past (Amiga should follow Macs, as an example).

_________________
Ordell Robbie: Is she dead, yes or no?
Louis: Pretty much.

Quote:

eric5h5 wrote: @Dan Quote: I can´t imagine that it´s harder to write viruses for OSX with all it´s BSD stuff than the old mac-os It's probably not harder to WRITE them, but it's a lot harder to SPREAD them. Classic MacOS has no permissions or passwords or anything; the OS will do pretty much whatever any old program tells it to do, and the user is none the wiser.

[/quote]
The program had to start first, that needed a stupid user unless it was a diskvirus.
On the other hand OSX has these net-thingys from Unix,
I wouldn´t say that OSXis more secure than BSD, Solaris or Linux.....

Quote:

Quote: Hey didn´t I read about the first spyware for OSX a couple of weeks ago. Yes, the one where you need to have actual physical access to the machine to install it. I am greatly worried about that...or not....

Just like before in other words.



Quote:

Quote: But Mac was much cooler back then Nope, it was for one-button-mouse dorks back then. Macs are cool now, maybe not as cool as Amigas but at least you don't have to be embarrassed to use them. :) --Eric

well, i don´t think unixes are cool in general. Good? Yes. but not cool

Don´t believe in Jobs anymore than Gates, it´s the same #### only differnet boots.

Regarding viruses for OS X: No, there will never be a serious threat to the platform.

Why is that, you might wonder? Well, how many viruses have you seen for Linux? Or BSD?
It has a totally different filearchitecture than Windows has. It is very difficult to implement viruses without 1. being at the machine physically. 2. Not without the user noticing.

Point 2 is ofcourse the flawed one. One could write an application that does in fact do some damage, but since changing systemfiles require the admin password, these users SHOULD know what they are installing. If they are not, then it's their loss.

We had a virus a few months ago where someone spoofed an Mp3 file. This is now eliminated because OS X asks you if you really want to run "so and so" program with the application it needs.

OS X and BSD systems aren't virusproof, but it is a lot harder to write good viruses for them.
Also, consider that Windows has a userbase of 98% of all platforms being used worldwide, ofcourse people want to write viruses that hits the largest amount of users.

Also, if you are into networking or are a computer savvy, common sense and tailing of logfiles etc helps detecting viruses or trojans on a OS X system pretty fast. The built-in firewall is alse a great way to get rid of unwanted visitors and scans.

_________________
”It’s all a matter of technique. We have it, and you don’t, so if you shut the #### up, we’ll play some songs and everyone’ll be happy.”

@eric5h5 and Desolator

Refer to
http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/articles/renepo.html
http://www.sophos.com/products/sav/
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/download/pages/US-NMC.html
http://www.pure-mac.com/virus.html

Notice the very reason why Sophos Anti-Virus MacOS X edition and Norton AntiVirus for MacOS X virus definitions gets updated.

Apple's security updates as of 11th Jan 2005 refer to
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61798

@eric5h5
Do you assume I don?t have access to MacOS X 10.x based PC?

Last edited by Hammer on 16-Jan-2005 at 05:41 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Jan-2005 at 05:27 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Jan-2005 at 05:19 AM.

_________________
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Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Desolator

Quote:

We had a virus a few months ago where someone spoofed an Mp3 file

It was labelled MP3Concept or MP3Virus.Gen; which exploits a weakness in Mac OS X where applications may appear to be other types of files.

Are you assuming I don't have access to MacOS X based PC?

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

Hi Intuitioned,


This is a possibility:

1. Most of the sales go to current Mac owners.

2. They don't buy new SW, just copy all of their currently owned SW over to their new machines.

3. Their more/most expensive machines suffer a slow down in sales, as a result of this.

4. If they move more units, Apple still claim "stellar sales".

5. Playstation 3 and x-$-x ii cut into their sales when released in 9 to 12 months from now.


/me Yawn.

and...


AmigaOne! AOS4.0! Same old, same old, ... business as usual.

@Dan
Quote:

The program had to start first, that needed a stupid user unless it was a disk virus.

Wrong and wrong. All it needed was a Mac running OS 9 connected to a network.

@Hammer

I dunno, do you have access to a Mac running OS X? Apparently you didn't read the links you provided. Nobody should assume there will never be any viruses for OS X, but currently there isn't a reason for a normal user to run AV software.

--Eric

@Hammer

I assume that the average user installs some sort of AV software. That's common sense. I certainly hope that mac network admins does it..

And I do assume that you have access to OS X machines.

Last edited by Desolator on 16-Jan-2005 at 11:21 AM.

_________________
”It’s all a matter of technique. We have it, and you don’t, so if you shut the #### up, we’ll play some songs and everyone’ll be happy.”

@Cass

On the other hand, Macs are targetted at Joe Average, Amigas are still sold without a finished OS and targetted at geeks.

And on the third hand, why not just buy the damn Amiga ready built from one of the multitude of resellers who offer one ready to run?

I just don't get it.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@Cass

I think that we shall go back to the roots and sell µA1s in the Fantasy-case. I think that it's a great idea and I'm sure that lots of people will like it and recognise it as an Amiga right away.

The bigest problem with the µA1 is the Radeon 7000 IMO. It's just too weak when it comes to 3D. I tried that card and a Voodoo 4 in a PC and I was shocked to see how badly the Radeon 7000 performed compared to the Voodoo 4. None of them are very fast compared to newer gfxcards though.

A Radeon 9200 or similar would've been a better choise.

Last edited by hotrod on 16-Jan-2005 at 01:46 PM.

@Cass

Quote:

The MacMini has nice looks, and can be used right out of the box. On the other hand, an A1 has to be built (just like a PeeCee), and costs much more...

Building a microA1 system is great fun , I wouldn't buy a pre-built system. It's nice to be able to pick your own components.

MacMini has no keyboard, mouse, display etc, very limited expansion options. I don't think its all that in the looks department either personally. I think when you start adding it up it won't be cheap, especially if you want matching Apple kit.

PC hardware doesn't hold any value, you buy it and a year later its worth half what it was, not so with Amiga hardware. I think you get what you pay for at the end of the day.

@hotrod

Quote:

I think that we shall go back to the roots and sell µA1s in the Fantasy-case. I think that it's a great idea and I'm sure that lots of people will like it and recognise it as an Amiga right away.

Must admit I like the fantasy case, and I think there is probably a market for it, but I'm not sure this sort of design is what people want today. I think something more along the lines of the CDTV design is probably going to be more popular personally. I've gone for the Antec Aria case and a Samsung LCD TV for my A1 set up.

Last edited by dan.hutch on 16-Jan-2005 at 03:19 PM.
Last edited by dan.hutch on 16-Jan-2005 at 03:18 PM.

I wanted (and still do I suppose) this case for the u-A1.



It is very similar in shape to the Mac Mini but more serious looking. Its dimensions are 7"(177.8mm) x 2"(50.8mm) x 10"(254mm) (WxHxD). The problem is that the case is over quarter of the price of the Mac Mini and would be extremely difficult to fit a u-A1 in anyway. The heatsink may be too big and the PSU is one of those twattish ones with the different voltage levels. I'm sure somebody might do it but is not something I would like to tackle.

I have found a case cooler than either of them and it looks like this,



Also on this site is a picture of the inside of the Mini Mac,

mini-ITX.com

Last edited by Intuitioned on 16-Jan-2005 at 04:00 PM.

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