@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote: @Dandy But that is an old post that leads to a dead page (the link inside that post I mean). ...

Yes - but it shows that it was already known back in 2008 that individuals can buy single PowerStations.

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Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
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@fairlanefastback
Great!
I am interested to understand if they are some sort of Dell (selling different products of course) or IBM with their server business...

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @DAX ... I am waiting on a reply. ... Lets see what they say.

Great idea (to ask them)!
Please keep us informed!

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Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dandy Quote:

I dont think they`re just rebadged old IBM stock. After 2 hours of googling I could not find a hint on the web that the YDL PowerStation is an old IBM design.

Errrr, what about this:
post #118 of OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
(Follow the links in that post, you'll see it was designed by someone else *for* IBM.)

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The Power station is really not interesting, it's a good price but limited supply and probably not the easiest to support for Hyperion.

Please follow the link Chris provided to get the full story.

_________________

@Troels

Quote:

Troels wrote: The Power station is really not interesting, it's a good price but limited supply

How limited is the supply?

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@Darth_X

Quote:

Let's compare the price of the Powerstation to the Sam flex!

Lets not, as the Powerstation doesn't run OS4.

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Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@fairlanefastback
Still nothing from them?

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@DAX

Nothing yet.

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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
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@all

From Fixstars:


Quote:

Thank you very much for contacting Fixstars about Powerstation. No, we won't charge you any sales tax since we ship it from Colorado. The shipping charge would be $45 by UPS Ground including handling charge. Yes, we would take a credit card. We are looking forward to receiving your order. Best regards, Hiroshi Sato Fixstars Solutions, Inc. Mail from contact@fixstars.com: > Please reply to the following inquiry. > > > PowerStation > > If purchasing a single machine as a private individual what is the total cost? $1250 plus shipping? Do you take credit cards? > > What would be the cost of shipping options to New York, NY? Do you charge any tax for purchases to NY? > > Thanks. > > > > Individual or Corporate : individual client

And there you have it. $1295 to my door for the machine, the shipping, and the handling fee. Nothing against Rob's theory, but now we know.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 04-Nov-2009 at 03:37 AM.

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@fairlanefastback
Quote:

How limited is the supply?

I don't know but since it's not being produced anymore and can't be at that price it must e limited supply. Let's just say supply is more limited than Macmini, which is more or less available all over the world and more suited for Amiga desktop use.

I know the mac port of AmigaOS won't happen but I still find that to be more sane hardware to target.

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@Troels

Quote:

Troels wrote: The Power station is really not interesting,

Fine, if you are not interested in it - go, be happy and play with the inferior and overpriced SAM. I am more interested in the PowerStation, where I get high performance for my money...

Quote:

Troels wrote: it's a good price but limited supply

I`m sure you can point us to the source of your claim...

Quote:

Troels wrote: and probably not the easiest to support for Hyperion.

I remember a satement from one of the OS4 developers that it would (technically) take one month at maximum to port the OS to annother PPC CPU...

Quote:

Troels wrote: Please follow the link Chris provided to get the full story.

I know the stories - had already been there.
But not sure what you want to tell me with this...

Last edited by Dandy on 04-Nov-2009 at 07:25 AM.

_________________
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Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote: @Darth_X Quote: Let's compare the price of the Powerstation to the Sam flex! Lets not, as the Powerstation doesn't run OS4.

Let`s do it nevertheless, as the PowerStation COULD run OS4.x if Hyperion decided to support it.

I do not know of any other PPC hardware that is freely available and has the same or more power at a better price.

And even H.-J. Frieden told me in an e-mail that his opinion is that high-end hardware is urgently required.

_________________
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Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @all From Fixstars: Quote: Thank you very much for contacting Fixstars about Powerstation. No, we won't charge you any sales tax since we ship it from Colorado. The shipping charge would be $45 by UPS Ground including handling charge. Yes, we would take a credit card. We are looking forward to receiving your order. Best regards, Hiroshi Sato Fixstars Solutions, Inc. Mail from contact@fixstars.com: > Please reply to the following inquiry. > > > PowerStation > > If purchasing a single machine as a private individual what is the total cost? $1250 plus shipping? Do you take credit cards? > > What would be the cost of shipping options to New York, NY? Do you charge any tax for purchases to NY? > > Thanks. > > > > Individual or Corporate : individual client And there you have it. $1295 to my door for the machine, the shipping, and the handling fee. Nothing against Rob's theory, but now we know.

Exactly what I wrote in my post #18 - no surprise so far.
But nevertheless its a good thing to be sure.

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Troels

Quote:

Troels wrote: @fairlanefastback Quote: How limited is the supply? I don't know but since it's not being produced anymore and can't be at that price it must e limited supply.

Ahhhh - you don`t know!
In this case it might be a better idea to word it in a question like `Is it still being produced?` instead of implying it is no longer in production.

Quote:

Troels wrote: Let's just say supply is more limited than Macmini, which is more or less available all over the world and more suited for Amiga desktop use.

Why?
I can go and buy a brandnew PowerStation, but I can`t go and buy any brandnew PPC Macs, which are no longer produced since 2006.
I can only get second hand PPC-Macs.

And why do you think a PPC Mac is better suited for Amiga desktop use than a PowerStation?

Mate, I don`t mind that your computing needs differ from mine.
I don`t mind you to ask Hyoerion to support your MacMinis like I asked them to support the PowerStation.
But please don`t mind me having the need for an Amiga PowerStation.

Quote:

Troels wrote: I know the mac port of AmigaOS won't happen but I still find that to be more sane hardware to target.

Is that the sole reason that you run around and badmouth all other solutions?

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dandy
Quote:

I remember a satement from one of the OS4 developers that it would (technically) take one month at maximum to port the OS to annother PPC CPU...

I knew the statement, but AOS4 for Sam is still beta and Hyperion had 24 month to develop for Sam and much more if they started with the Evaluation board before.

MPC 970 is a 64Bit design, I doesn't know how compatible its 32bit mode will be.

And even if 500 AOS4 Fans wanted AOS4 for the power station. there is only one way to convince Hyperion: "Pay the port"

Last edited by Arko on 04-Nov-2009 at 08:09 AM.
Last edited by Arko on 04-Nov-2009 at 08:08 AM.

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I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@Dandy
We know more now, but there are a lot of points up to speculation (still):

1)Are they still in production?

2)If not, how many do they have? (ours is a small market, they might have more than enough as far as we are concerned).

3)How hard is the port for these machines and, is there a future AFTER them?

On the first point, well, we really don't know, maybe if Hyperion did contact them they could illuminate us.

On the second one I presume they might have "justenough" so I don't think is a big problem.

The third one is what IMHO ruins the party: Mark Olsen already said that porting MorphOS to a G5 Powermac would pose immense hurdles, but what if it take 2 years for a "Final" version of AmigaOS (for the 970) and then they sell remaining Powerstation stock to another company or simply put, there will be no new model (980-990 etc.) in the future?

If they would want to stay in business they would have to start over on different hardware.

Bottom line: It could be immensely difficult to do and a dead end at the same time.

In the case of AMCC they already have the job done for many components and controllers (AMCC use mostly the same ones on their designs) it is not a 64-Bit CPU (although with PAE support at kernel level, it can address up to 64GB or ram) and it has a future.
AMCC announced they have a QuadCore Titan with 2MB L2 cache in the pipeline, and "who knows what" as production process shrinks.

The latter is easier, no problems with availability nor with future production and evolution.

Last edited by DAX on 04-Nov-2009 at 10:59 AM.

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@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote: @Dandy We know more now, but there are a lot of points up to speculation (still): 1)Are they still in production? 2)If not, how many do they have? (ours is a small market, they might have more than enough as far as we are concerned).

Lets ask Fixstars on that...

Quote:

DAX wrote: 3)How hard is the port for these machines and, is there a future AFTER them?

This one should be directed to Hyperion...

Quote:

DAX wrote: ... The third one is what IMHO ruins the party: Mark Olsen already said that porting MorphOS to a G5 Powermac would pose immense hurdles,

There was a statement by the OS4 developers, that porting OS4.x to annother PPC CPU would just mean to adapt the HAL and could be
done within a month.

I do not know if the MOS architecture is different and so it might be more difficult to adapt MOS for the G5 than to adapt OS4.x for the G5.
Perhaps someone here with more insight can enlighten us.

Quote:

DAX wrote: but what if it take 2 years for a "Final" version of AmigaOS (for the 970) and then they sell remaining Powerstation stock to another company or simply put, there will be no new model (980-990 etc.) in the future? If they would want to stay in business they would have to start over on different hardware.

My thinking is along the line that they need just one month for the port and so we could have powerful hardware for AmigaOS 4.x within one month (will to do that provided).

Then there is time to enhance the OS on this HW and in parallell to that examine the actual situation to decide whether to stay PPC or to port the OS to a annother/new CPU family, while the community can enjoy the Aniga system on any of the available and supported HWs of their choice.

Quote:

DAX wrote: Bottom line: It could be immensely difficult to do and a dead end at the same time.

But it could as well be the other way round - we don`t know. We have to ask those in charge...

Quote:

DAX wrote: In the case of AMCC they already have the job done for many components and controllers (AMCC use mostly the same ones on their designs) it is not a 64-Bit CPU (although with PAE support at kernel level, it can address up to 64GB or ram) and it has a future.

Hmmm - if I had to choose between waiting for an (to me unknown) company to finish their design and go into production (price and date uncertain) and the already available, finished and tested PowerStation for just 1250$, my decision wouldn`t be very difficult: PowerStation.

And while we can use the PowerStation as development platform for the OS as well as for professional Software or simply as powerful desktop, we can easily watch what and how AMCC is doing - and should it make sense, support their system as well.

From my POV enough time has been wasted in the past because of the court proceedings. Now its time to support powerful HW as soon as possible to open up a future path for the Amiga platform as long as it is still possible. If we now have to wait annother 5 years for the hypothetical AMCC device without hardware available in the meantime, it might be too late.
(I don`t see SAM as viable HW, given its cost/performance ratio - just as a bad joke. One could also call it a modern form of robber-knighthood.)

Quote:

DAX wrote: AMCC announced they have a QuadCore Titan with 2MB L2 cache in the pipeline, and "who knows what" as production process shrinks. The latter is easier, no problems with availability nor with future production and evolution.

As I stated above:
I`d rather have a sparrow in my hand than a pigeon on the roof.

Last edited by Dandy on 04-Nov-2009 at 01:46 PM.

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Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dandy
I don't think that what you heard about porting to other PPC processors applies to weird 64-Bit CPUs designs as well.

I would add that Fixstars might be "tested" as you say, but not on Aos4 and some of the problems Olsen mentioned had to do with the weird motherboard architecture (south bridge/north bridge) and totally unsupported on board controllers for which "from scratch" drivers would have to be written.

Titans however are not 5 years away, the dual core evaluation boards are shipping since last month, and those in charge probably already have some in hand.
They generally use the usual set of AMCC components (Sata, USB2.0 controllers and more) for which Hyperion already did a monstrous job to support (and in fact the forthcoming 4.1.1 will be the first fully featured OS4 for SAM) and they would not have to start from scratch (unlike Fixstars that has totally alien motherboard and CPU for which full support could take as much as Sam).

If my first assumption on 64-Bit CPUs holds true, than it would be monstrously easy to use AMCC hw, and very difficult to support Fixstars.

Not exactly a sparrow and pigeon situation there...(in that case).

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@Arko

Quote:

Arko wrote: @Dandy Quote: I remember a satement from one of the OS4 developers that it would (technically) take one month at maximum to port the OS to annother PPC CPU... I knew the statement, but AOS4 for Sam is still beta and Hyperion had 24 month to develop for Sam and much more if they started with the Evaluation board before.

Yes - but you are refrring to the OS development after the actual port.
Even WinXP still has flaws after "how many years?" and has been worked on until recently...

Quote:

Arko wrote: MPC 970 is a 64Bit design, I doesn't know how compatible its 32bit mode will be.

Fixstars say its "for native 32- and 64-bit processing".

Quote:

Arko wrote: And even if 500 AOS4 Fans wanted AOS4 for the power station. there is only one way to convince Hyperion: "Pay the port"

Except if Hyperion are clever (as always) and come to this conclusion on their own...

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Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)