@ChrisH

But you still haven't explained why there is no OS4 news! LOL. I was reading "The Greatest Show On Earth" by Richard Dawkins and he describes the same argument style he had with a creationist in a TV debate. Really quite hilarious.

Kad.

@TheDaddy

Quote:

Which to me means that Tomas believes that amigans.net IS a fanboy site for the simple fact that, according to Tomas, there, over at amigans.net they moderate anything that goes against OS4 and its merits...

Sometimes you can only improve something well and efficiently by honestly discussing its faults. And just because you are doing so does not mean you are against the product. On the contrary you may be quite the supporter of the product.

I don't hang out there so I don't know if the reputation is deserved or not. And like I said I am sympathetic to them being sensitive over there. Its been obvious for many years now that some people will not rest until the OS is dead and buried.

Quote:

Also why start attacking amigans.net all of a sudden? Why can't they just be? Why does it bother people so much that there is a popular site centred around OS4?

I'm not sure by what measure you are calling it popular. But in regard to the rest of what you said, the honest answer is, because those people are (IMHO) mentally ill, possessing a very odd obsession. "Normal" people (again IMHO) would just let them exist in peace, even if they don't like OS4.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 15-Oct-2010 at 02:23 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

But clearly the color that symbolizes purity (white) is probably not one anyone should be allowed to lay claim to if they are going to take talk in that direction.

What we had to do? Hyperion get red colour from Boing ball... and only white left for us. So our Boing ball is coulourless...

@fairlanefastback

>>Quote:
Sometimes you can only improve something well and efficiently by honestly discussing its faults. And just because you are doing so does not mean you are against the product. On the contrary you may be quite the supporter of the product.

Ah come on...you are reading too much into it or trying to justify the comment. The comments made against amigans.net are clear for everyone to read.

>>I'm not sure by what measure you are calling it popular.

The measure being that it is a very popular site with Amiga users and especially OS4 users.

>>But in regard to the rest of what you said, the honest answer is, because those people are (IMHO) mentally ill, possessing a very odd obsession. "Normal" people (again IMHO) would just let them exist in peace, even if they don't like OS4.

Exactly, I am happy that we agree on something

_________________
www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@fairlanefastback
Quote:

But in regard to the rest of what you said, the honest answer is, because those people are (IMHO) mentally ill, possessing a very odd obsession. "Normal" people (again IMHO) would just let them exist in peace, even if they don't like OS4.

Since we are totally off topic anyway, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

Yes, there are a few legitimately mentally ill people in our community. That is a fact because some of them openly admitted their illness. Given the obsessive compulsive behaviour of some on that black/green site over the years (yes, years) I think a few more need to admit they have a serious problem. However, the vast majority here are not mentally ill but perhaps could do with some self reflection.

Remember my Fork It! thread a while back? It refers to the narcissism of minor differences theory. I think the term "fanboy" is a perfect example of this. You hate them because they are just like you and you are desperate to find a difference.

I know whenever I see the word "fanboy" or worse, "Berlin" I just know where the thread is going and I hit the Report button immediately. It isn't about free speech or human rights. It is about preventing the narcissism of small differences from destroying yet another thread.

And yes, I believe I'm guilty of the narcissism of small differences myself. But the first step to managing a problem is admitting you have a problem.... ahem.

_________________
ExecSG Team Lead

@fairlanefastback

White and black are part of the gray scale and not consider colors.

I think its better to calibrate diversity; you are not like anyone else you are your self.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Oct-2010 at 06:34 PM.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@TheDaddy

Quote:

This is REALITY = there are quite a few users here on amigaworld.net who, maybe for fun, to wind people up, keep slagging AmigaOS4 off, the hardware (SAMs) and future hardware (X1000), making people who are sticking with OS4 and its hardware look like fools.

I find it interesting that you should interpret some people's critcism of Hyperion's decisions and that of their past and current partners as slagging AOS4 users and making them look like fools. Sounds like you're taking criticism of Hyperion or some it's past and present partners, including AInc., way too personally, at least IMHO. I can't ever recall people saying that AOS4 was crap or that its users were idiots. I DO however recall people criticising Hyperion in the past and more recently on their stance against all things x86, and the cost, low-end nature, lack of and/or downright crappy PPC hardware (e.g. Micro-AmigaOne - I should know, I was one of the first to own one) only to be jumped on and beaten to pulp with vitriol, sometimes new users for simply asking an innocent question like "why not port x86". Granted, this happens less often now, but you still get alot of intolerance towards anything that is not AOS4 or PPC, like C=USA's recent announcements.

Also, I think that the only crticism I have ever seen against the AmigaOne X1000 is the lack of concrete information on the system and likely high cost of the product, and again, Hyperion's insistance on ignoring anything non-PPC...then last but not least, missed deadlilnes which were unrealistic to begin with in the first place.

I guess the reason I don't get how you would be insulted whenever someone criticises Hyperion, any of their partners and/or their products, is that I loved my CBM Amiga 2000, 3000 and 4000T even though I was not a fan of CBM, their mismanagement or their practices. I wasn't insulted whenever CBM was criticised, nor did I feel stupid when people criticised the Amiga. I don't recall many people insulting Amiga users - other than remarking that some of them were a bit too evangelical about their platform, which was often warranted. Only their choice of hardware or the companies that made them were criticised at times, but I never saw this as an isult to me personally.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Sometimes you can only improve something well and efficiently by honestly discussing its faults. And just because you are doing so does not mean you are against the product. On the contrary you may be quite the supporter of the product.

Amen brother! ...not that I'm all that religious, but the expression seemed appropriate.

I like my discussions mostly open and free from censorship, but free from personal attacks and insults whenever possible, which is why I still frequent AW.NET after so many years. Amiga.org is too much of the wild west for me - just about anything goes, including insults and outright lynchings - , while Amigans.net has too narrow a focus for my liking, at least IMHO. AW.NET is just right, although I don't always agree with some moderator's moderating, but hey, nothing's perfect.

Unfortunately, some people, whether - white, red, blue, brown or whatever - only like to hear information and opinions that support their own and are quite intolerant of ones that differ from their own or that are in anyway critical of the vision they support. They seem oddly incapable of taking any criticism or skepticism of the vision they support (which is that of a software and/or hardware manufacturer, not their own) as anything other than a personal insult. This kind of insular behavior is not unique to the Amiga of course. Many such folks can be found lurking only in web sites that hold the same extremist or insular views as their own, usually big believers of conspiracy theories whether on the right of left hand of the spectrum. And you know what, they're more than welcome to them, but I can't understand their morbid facination in being gluttons for punishment by going to sites that they know embrace free expression of opinions that differ from their own.

Maybe it's just me, but I find this very perplexing to be honest. I have such little free time on my hands, so I try to find whatever pleasure I can whenever I can in getting the odd opportunity to read and take part in the odd stimulating and thoughtful discourse with others. For some this means wide open and free discussion about many different topics from the point of view of anything Amiga, and for others this means only topics that dicsuss topics that a more specific and supportive of their views. But there it is, such is human nature.

"Oh, I'm so confused" ~ Vinny Bobarino

Last edited by elatour on 16-Oct-2010 at 04:13 AM.
Last edited by elatour on 16-Oct-2010 at 04:12 AM.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@elatour

Now what you say might sound very sensible and probably not entirely removed from a perspective truth...

The thing is though, to be PRO Amiga is to ACCEPT what your Amiga can do... ACCEPT and Have Faith in whoever is doing something positive with potential Amiga HW and SW has got a few clues...

You DO NOT care to raise issues like missed deadlines or similair aspects because it certainly doesn't inspire or encourage ANY change of events... what is the point of you looking at me and saying see? they can't deliver this... ????? If you have no faith or lost it then perhaps you should go elsewhere for your particular type of instant satisfaction... AmigaOS is NOT mainstream... you have to have some respect for anyone who is getting things done... perhaps there is not enough info for your liking but that is YOUR thing and shouldn't be confused with what is vital and necessary...

The Pro Amiga element of the community is UTTERLY tired of people spelling out the limitations of the Amiga

Most of us have always known what our machine can and cant do we also know what every single file on the OS harddrive is there for.

AmigaOS is simply the best OS for us and we DO NOT care that something running linux or macos or windows is using a faster CPU... and we DO NOT care that microsoft meet there release date for Window 8 or whatever...

My stance is this, I support Amiga HW regardless... I now own 3 SAMs... do you think there'd be any more Amiga HW if some people like me didn't buy the HW?

The push for porting OS4.x to x86 architecture is a simple one... Piracy... I personally hope this never ever happens and that they continue to produce major custom hardware with a huge price tag to match... I'll be running AmigaOS4.x on NG HW as long as they make it and I'm quite pleased that alot of the masses won't be...

AmigaOS only needs the dedicated user and new users will come anyway... everyone else who has lost faith or just can't understand what they need to do to enjoy AmigaOS can (and I sincerely mean this) bugger off...

get into something that delivers what you need when you need it and forget about Amigas...

_________________
~Yes I am a Kiwi, No, I did not appear as an extra in 'Lord of the Rings'~
1x AmigaOne X5000 2.0GHz 2gM RadeonR9280X AOS4.x
3x AmigaOne X1000 1.8GHz 2gM RadeonHD7970 AOS4.x

@Slayer

Quote:

Now what you say might sound very sensible and probably not entirely removed from a perspective truth...

I feel a big 'BUT...' coming...

Quote:

The thing is though, to be PRO Amiga is to ACCEPT what your Amiga can do... ACCEPT and Have Faith in whoever is doing something positive with potential Amiga HW and SW has got a few clues...

Ahh...there it is...I knew it was coming!

Sorry, I don't believe in having blind faith in things and I try not to be a lemming and follow blindly in the foot steps of others, whether the mainstream crowd or a even smaller group of seemingly like-minded folks...I like to think for myself and I like to ask questions. I try to be supportive when I see something that looks promissing as I was with the AmigaOne X1000's XMOS feature. But likewise, I'm also hopeful that perhaps C=USA might actually something do something positive for the Amiga brand and eventually for the Amiga platform as a whole (including AOS4, AROS. MorphOS, UAE, etc.), which I'm sure is making you shake and convulse violently in disaproval and disgust as you read it.

Quote:

The Pro Amiga element of the community is UTTERLY tired of people spelling out the limitations of the Amiga

This is what I find quite confusing. I could be wrong, but reading between the lines, I'm detecting that by Pro-Amiga, you mean Pro-AmigaOS4 and by extension/association, pro-anything-Hyperion and Hyperion related, which I personally find to be too narrow a definition of Amiga, as you may have gathered from my previous comments in this and many other threads on this site. I'm Pro Amiga, but my Amiga includes all flavours of Amiga, classic and clones, software and hardware.

Quote:

My stance is this, I support Amiga HW regardless... I now own 3 SAMs... do you think there'd be any more Amiga HW if some people like me didn't buy the HW?

Ok, that's your right and I don't think that anyone here has said you shouldn't be entittled to it, nor should they. They only said that they personally wouldn't. So I say, live and let live. If you want people to respect your choices - but not necessarily agree with them - , then you should respect someone talking about their choices even if they should be a Commodore Amiga branded machine running AROS. Again, any of you AmigaOS4 purists out there must be foaming at the mouth at reading this by now!

As for "buggering off" - which in some circles is quite an insulting comment when you think of what buggery is - , like I said before, I think that anyone not being able to digest other people discussing things that don't meet with their own vision of what Amiga is, would likely and quite honestly be happier on a site that caters to their views, which is what Amigans.net does for AOS4 owners and supporters that do not care to hear anything remotely relating to anything not AOS4, PPC or Hyperion related. As far as I can tell, AW.NET still caters to a wider audience. Amigans.net was born out of a desire to narrow the focus on all things Hyperion, AOS4 and AmigaOne, which is just fine.

Everyone should go with what makes them happy, and live and let live...It takes energy and time to hate and/or argue with folks you don't agree with....life's too bloddy short mate!

Just remember, the answer to life, the universe and everything is 42.

Last edited by elatour on 16-Oct-2010 at 04:28 AM.
Last edited by elatour on 16-Oct-2010 at 04:11 AM.
Last edited by elatour on 16-Oct-2010 at 04:09 AM.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@elatour

>>I find it interesting that you should interpret some people's critcism of Hyperion's decisions and that of their past and current partners as slagging AOS4 users and making them look like fools. Sounds like you're taking criticism of Hyperion or some it's past and present partners, including AInc., way too personally, at least IMHO.

This is not interpretation, it's is just a clear statement of facts:
Some people here just enjoy winding OS4/AmigaPPC/ACube/Hyperion up the reasons being:

1) They just do it for fun (they have nothing better to do and have a laugh at people's expenses)

2) They do it from the height of their "knowledge", somehow they believe that it's better to do it the Apple, Windows, Linux, Aros, MOS style than the way Hyperion/ACube/A-EON do it. So from time to time they start vomiting their "thoughts" on how better would have been if Amiga had gone X86...now we have discussed this I think a couple of times before and Hyperion have stated to just forget it. I am not against AmigaOSx86, but unless Hyperion have changed their mind, it is not going to happen so just leave the OS4 people, its users, amigans.net alone.

I and many others here are fed up with people jumping in OS4 only related threads for example and starting slipping their "thought" in ("it's too expensive, it's slow, it's not x86, it's this and that).

Amigaworld is a site open to all kind of discussions and open to all the Amiga flavours which is fine by me, otherwise I would have left ages ago, but and I am going to underline this again, the fact that some of these people start gratuitously slagging off a site like amigans.net is NOT OK.

Especially when amigans/net can't defend themselves.

>>I can't ever recall people saying that AOS4 was crap or that its users were idiots.

It's not as direct but many comments imply just that.

>>I DO however recall people criticising Hyperion in the past and more recently on their stance against all things x86

It's fine. They are the owners and masters of the OS so I think they know what is better for OS4. There might be different reasons why Hyperion don't like x86 but ultimately it's down to them, for me PPC is fine, it is also more exotic. I don't have to run the latest game on OS4 for that I can use my 6-core AMD PC.

I hope that the X1000 will bring some interesting development with the XMOS chips which could make it an interesting machine to play with.


>>you still get alot of intolerance towards anything that is not AOS4 or PPC, like C=USA's recent announcements.

I suppose it's because people have had enough! They have had enough of broken promises and the aforementioned attacks on their OS/machines.

>>Also, I think that the only crticism I have ever seen against the AmigaOne X1000 is the lack of concrete information on the system and likely high cost of the product

People must understand that small companies can't just make things happen that quickly, not even big corporation do that. And regarding the cost...again they are small companies, how difficult is it to understand that niche market products cost A LOT? And this has also been said before but somehow some people prefer to ignore it.

>>I guess the reason I don't get how you would be insulted whenever someone criticises Hyperion

Just for the record, I don't jump in to defend Hyperion everytime, this time it has only started because of the amigans.net thing.

>>I wasn't insulted whenever CBM was criticised, nor did I feel stupid when people criticised the Amiga.

Neither do I. It is the CONTINUOUS, MONOTONOUS, TIRESOME comments, OVER and OVER and OVER again.

_________________
www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@kadenaa Quote:

But you still haven't explained why there is no OS4 news

Ummm, I didn't disagree with that small part of his post, so I didn't answer it. Why do you have to lump me with creationists (about the biggest insult I can think of) & label me as hilarious, unless you hoped to annoy me?

What I find more interesting is that YOU chose to ignore MY arguments, and instead focus on a non-issue. This is a really poor argument tactic, although maybe creationists would use that too....

P.S. Everyone knows that AmigaOS4 devs are busy working on X1000, Sam460, USB2, the new Shell console, Timberwolf/Firefox & probably other things. And no doubt we will find out when stuff is finished. It's not rocket science.

Last edited by ChrisH on 16-Oct-2010 at 12:53 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Slayer

Quote:

Slayer wrote: The push for porting OS4.x to x86 architecture is a simple one... Piracy...

This has been disprooven 9 years ago when Amithlon sold more copies than OS4 managed eversince. And thats dispite all the FUD, legal nonsene and limited nature of the product.

Remember, when doing SW it doesn't matter how many "steal" it, it only matter how many buy it

Quote:

I personally hope this never ever happens and that they continue to produce major custom hardware with a huge price tag to match...

So given the huge success this strategy has been in the past 9 years, your openly admitting you want OS4 to go further down the drain ?

Gee, and they are calling me an anit-OS4-troll

Last edited by Kronos on 16-Oct-2010 at 12:00 PM.

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@Kronos

Quote:

Kronos wrote: So given the huge success this strategy has been in the past 9 years, your openly admitting you want OS4 to go further down the drain ?

You got it upside down. As usual.

Custom hardware is not cheap. A New Beginning with new custom hardware and an OS
that will be tuned to that hardware is 'realistically' not going to be cheap.

It's not going down the drain. It's a starting point for moving up.

edit: content.

Last edited by Mechanic on 16-Oct-2010 at 01:28 PM.

@kadenaa

If you are attempting to say no OS4 news as in developments within the OS itself, then why should there have to be regular interjections from the developers?

In some respects, because this community is so small, it makes a change to even be ABLE to direct questions, thoughts and ideas to the actual devs and to get responses back in a public fora. You woulnd't get the same level of access to a larger corporation (Microsoft for example), and neither do they feel the need to spout out every minute about the tweaks they have made (or plan to) to their line up of Operating Systems.

Even the AROS / MorphOS devs do not get the same level of badgering and criticism levelled at them that seems to be prevalent when OS4 is concerned.

Just consider, would YOU want to participate in fora about your software, if the moment you do, a torrent of abuse is going to be hurled at you for no good reason?


@thread

If you read through Trevor's interview recently, you can see he said he missed the flame wars of the early 2000s, well some of us here naturally went through it, and to be honest it is REALLY wearing a bit thin now. It truly is about time people started to grow up and get over it. Posts designed to inflame, torment or annoy are so much more commonplace now, and it really is getting too much. I really do not think some people appreciate the amount of work staff have to do to keep this all under control without being overbearing or criticised ourselves (which also seems to be par for the course).

_________________
Test sig (new)

@ChrisH
Quote:

Ummm, I didn't disagree with that small part of his post, so I didn't answer it. Why do you have to lump me with creationists (about the biggest insult I can think of) & label me as hilarious, unless you hoped to annoy me?

Chill out bro, kadenaa wasn't comparing you to creationists. Imagine a debate where a scientist points out evidence for evolution, only to hear that it doesn't change anything. Hope you can appreciate the reference wasn't insulting now.

@Mechanic

Quote:

Mechanic wrote: @Kronos [quote] Kronos wrote: Custom hardware is not cheap. A New Beginning with new custom hardware and an OS that will be tuned to that hardware is 'realistically' not going to be cheap..

But thats not what slayer wrote .... he more or less wrote that he WANTS OS4-HW to be super-expensive. For whatever reason that might be.

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@Kronos

Quote:

Kronos wrote: [quote] mechanic wrote: Custom hardware is not cheap. A New Beginning with new custom hardware and an OS that will be tuned to that hardware is 'realistically' not going to be cheap.. Kronos wrote: But thats not what slayer wrote .... he more or less wrote that he WANTS OS4-HW to be super-expensive. For whatever reason that might be.

You're right. Sounds like a chain yank to me.

Now whose chain could he be trying to yank.

@fairlanefastback

To me the difference is if you're expressing your opinion without insulting the users or the developers of the product. I allways report any bugs or speak my mind about things but why on earth shall I insult hyperion, the users of amigaos, morphos or any os for that matter? I really don't know why anyone would do that, day after day read the topics here and at amigans.net and as soon as they get the chance begin to troll.

I really wish for the userbase to grow a whole lot to drown all these pointless discussions and comments.

Also what to do about the Friedens not being as active in these forums as they used to be? If they are they get to take so much crap that it is just a wonder that they still do what they do (thank you!) and if they don't they get crap for being silent.

Now there are no way for them to please everybody, it's impossible. What they do at amigans.net is that they removes all trolling which got nothing to do about expressing an opinion.

Example: "When will OpenGL be implemented?" ... a good valid question that won't insult anyone and if you really like to know that's all you need to ask, right?

Example: "When will OpenGLbe implemented, it has been working in every OS that I've been using for 5 years now and only for the developers of AmigaOS 4 it seems to be such an issue to implement it, what's the reason for this, are the programmers lame? Maybe they should team up with the great MorphOS developers. I will be using MorphOS just because of this and never ever return to the lame OS just because it got the name Amiga in it that some fan boy has as a religion bla bla bla bla bla"

See the difference?

@Mechanic

I don't think it's a chain-yank, I think he's being serious.

Quote:

I'll be running AmigaOS4.x on NG HW as long as they make it and I'm quite pleased that alot of the masses won't be...

He wants amiga ownership to be an exclusive club. Reminds me of Linux users who call GUIs "point and drool" and laugh at newbies who ask basic questions.