@fairlanefastback
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And how do you formulate that he is quite experienced to, putting it so nicely, be so "self -confident" (we call it rude in NY)?

Really? I can't believe there's anything somebody from NY would consider rude!

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@dirigent

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dirigent wrote: From reading these threads (I don't have the time or legal expertise any more to participate), I see that Tigger puts forth many valid points. Spectre and Cobra, for example, have good counterpoints. Others prefer to attack on a more personal level, which as a reader I do not find quite as interesting as the factual arguments.

Personal attacks are not good. However, ignoring other people's factual arguments because they don't support your position and then restating your position, constitutes a failure to engage in discussion. This is boring at best, and agravating to some people at worst.

Hans

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@Kronos

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Mmmmmmh now thats a hard one ! - outsource the grass-chewing to a goat - the goat than asks the cat to do the actual chewing, promising they will get their share of the cow-milk - cats don't chew grass for real, so it outsources to some mice promising them some cheese later on - all this doesn't work really well and the cow starts starving - to cure this the cow is moved to several different farms (all without grass offcourse since that isn't part of the cows job anymore). - the cow now sues the cat. - cat declares that it was never contracted by the cow, that it never received the grass .... well and it's all to late since it allready ate the mice 3 years ago. - later on it is dicovered that the cow was really a bull in drag. !

Kronos this is absolutely worldclass humor. It made me laugh like a maniac... For a long time I thought you were such a negative person against all thing Amiga (red camp). Its great to see you lighten up with this pearl - who knows someday we may get a nice bottle of milk!

Last edited by Hondo_DK on 12-Jul-2007 at 07:22 PM.

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@dirigent

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dirigent wrote: @fairlanefastback Quote: I was not the only one that took exception to him calling them code monkeys and not worth almost anything an hour, Note that a) this - admittedly quite blunt - statement of his about the monkeys was a report of what was said casually among pals some years ago and b) this quote illustrated his general and factually grounded point of view that the OS could have been done quicker with a more experienced team. He mentioned e.g. some technical discussions some years ago in which the Friedens changed their opinion about some important issue, does anyone know what this was about precisely? So while he sometimes puts things a little directly, there are always clear factual arguments behind them. That is a very important point. It means that you can and should attack first of all his facts if you hope to win the argument against him.

(a) Actually he did the name calling first and then was asked why he felt a need to call them names in these forums. It was then, after that fact, that he gave the story of how he and others first came, among a group of people to formulate the derogatory term for which the Friedens would be given. No one twisted some old drinking story from the get go. Instead it was given to further bolster why they should be called such and given as evidence by him that he was not the only one who felt they should be called such. As if saying "well others behave as bad as me" is some noble defense. Perhaps you should aqquaint yourself with the facts of how this occured, (remember those pesky facts) a bit before you start coming at me in defense of Tigger?

(b) So now facts are not enough meat for an arguement? Now insults are fine so long as you try to tie them to a (supposed) fact? Your usage of "quite blunt" and "a little directly" are interesting are they not? You don't think you are understating just so you don't have to backpedal at all? Tigger gets quite the special exceptions from you does he not? LOL!

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@jorkany

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jorkany wrote: @fairlanefastback Quote: And how do you formulate that he is quite experienced to, putting it so nicely, be so "self -confident" (we call it rude in NY)? Really? I can't believe there's anything somebody from NY would consider rude!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/auroramwj/756846887/

We take a licking but keep on ticking over here. But we still might consider things rude. We are quite civilized here, except when you walk on our sidewalks for some reason, then its every man, woman, and child for themselves. lol Otherwise though we are super nice. We hardly have a graffitti anymore even!

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fairlanefastback wrote: You choose to speak down to others with opposing views with absolutism and an authority that you do not hold. You also never get it that it might not come down to the letter of the law, let alone if you are really right about the letter of it. Your "confused" judge should have shown you that.

The judge was confused, a reading of his ruling shows that, hes talks about 25K while talking about documents and referencing the same that have nothing to do with that. But when it comes to the actual case, and the back and forth of lawyers, its a much less likely chance to be confused, and its a jury trial, which will favor AI over Hyperion especially since the law is in their favor already. The Jury will hear about Hyperion taking money and giving nothing, and that wont help Hyperions case at all.
-Tig

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fairlanefastback wrote: I invite you to point out the facts that were utilized by him here, directed at me for no reason: http://tinyurl.com/ytvw9k And how do you formulate that he is quite experienced to, putting it so nicely, be so "self -confident" (we call it rude in NY)?

You are the one swearing in the thread and posting about good faith effort. I just said that others of us on this thread had talked about Hyperion not providing a good faith effort with regards to the Itec contract and I was glad you were catching on. WIth that thin of skin, I'm not sure I believe you are from New York.
-Tig

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@Tigger

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But when it comes to the actual case, and the back and forth of lawyers, its a much less likely chance to be confused

Well your previous definitive statements on his behavior did not pan out. Your finally talking about chances rather than what the judge will do for sure is welcome. But let me help you there a little further if I may. You *think* this will lead to a "much less likely chance". Now given that your interpretations of the judge's actions previously were wrong we must suppose you may still be off, even if you've adjusted now for his previous "confusion" now in your calculations on how he will act going forward. But still past performance shows you were wrong about him. He may still come up with more pesky "confused" behavior in the future. Thats life. Now your last defense to this was something like "yeah but I've successfully called all the other litigations". So I'll give you a 50/50.

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its a much less likely chance to be confused, and its a jury trial, which will favor AI over Hyperion especially since the law is in their favor already.

Now here I'm going to have to lower your odds. One single entity, run by an American, doing the actual work, not getting the starting material they were promised vs. a slew of company names run by a Finn and a guy who treated a previous deposition admitted as evidence flippantly "fourteen billion" (Bill McEwen). People who aren't lawyers, who are forced into jury duty. Does $100 in the bank and more debts than that equal insolvent pretty easily to a jury? I would think so. And if the judge keeps calling the clause a "buy-in" its not likely to be good IMO for Amiga, err KMOS, err Itec. And things like the same signature three times for three companies on one piece of paper don't sit well with some folk. Have you ever served on a jury? I have. The attitudes are not pretty. Usually whats for lunch is the most important issue to most in the room. It sucks, but thats what can happen. Thats why there is a whole industry on how to pick jurors.

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pixie wrote: Good faith and an company owning Amiga don't match... after all it's one and the same company.

Its not one and the same company. Itec and AI(W) are different companies, Itec signed a deal with Hyperion, they need to carry out the contract or suffer the penalties for not doing so. Noone forced Ben to sign the contract, why do you think Hyperion should not have to carry out the contract they signed with Itec?
-Tig

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@Hondo_DK

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Kronos this is absolutely worldclass humor.

It's been worth following this thread for the cownomics. Everything is nicely explained at last.

Noel

@Tigger

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Tigger wrote: Quote: fairlanefastback wrote: I invite you to point out the facts that were utilized by him here, directed at me for no reason: http://tinyurl.com/ytvw9k And how do you formulate that he is quite experienced to, putting it so nicely, be so "self -confident" (we call it rude in NY)? You are the one swearing in the thread and posting about good faith effort. I just said that others of us on this thread had talked about Hyperion not providing a good faith effort with regards to the Itec contract and I was glad you were catching on. WIth that thin of skin, I'm not sure I believe you are from New York. -Tig

Oh picking up to bolster dirigent are we. How sweet. "The others of us". ... Yes Tigger there are those of us that know that those with opposing views are transparent to you, except to use to write @theirname in order to say the same thing over and over like a broken record. You don't have conversations. You give speechs. You are well aware that it was unlikely that I was posting those legal definitions in favor or Amiga/Itec given all my other posts. And now you are insulting the kind of resilience someone from NYC has or not? LOL!

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 12-Jul-2007 at 08:45 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 12-Jul-2007 at 08:44 PM.

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Here's how I see it.

It goes back to the original contract.
Amiga(W) didn't deliver the sources for OS3.5 and OS3.9. - BREACH.
Eyetech didn't deliver the Escenda boards - BREACH.

Hyperion should terminate the contract with Amiga Inc. (W) and Eyetech for breaches.

Contract with ITEC is automatically null and void.

Hyperion have an OS which has derived work of Amiga Inc.(W) who's trademarks possibly belong to KMOS.

Time to draft a new contract.
or
Time for the OS4 developers to start selling their work to PPC AROS users...or join the MorphOS team...atleast they get paid...

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

(a) Actually he did the name calling first and then was asked why he felt a need to call them names in these forums. It was then, after that fact, that he gave the story

I remember it differently. When he talked about OS4 taking so long and Hyperion not being the best ones to do it, he said something like "actually we called them code monkeys at some conference". Prove me wrong if you can.

Quote:

(b) So now facts are not enough meat for an arguement? Now insults are fine so long as you try to tie them to a (supposed) fact? Your usage of "quite blunt" and "a little directly" are interesting are they not? You don't think you are understating just so you don't have to backpedal at all? Tigger gets quite the special exceptions from you does he not? LOL!

Calm it down a little, will you? When I read through these posts, I don't pay much attention to "direct" or "blunt" formulations, but just get directly to the facts. Of which there have been very few in your recent posts, it was better at the beginning IIRC. I've never had much trouble finding the facts in Tigger's posts.

Last edited by dirigent on 12-Jul-2007 at 08:56 PM.

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: (a) Actually he did the name calling first and then was asked why he felt a need to call them names in these forums. It was then, after that fact, that he gave the story of how he and others first came, among a group of people to formulate the derogatory term for which the Friedens would be given. No one twisted some old drinking story from the get go. Instead it was given to further bolster why they should be called such and given as evidence by him that he was not the only one who felt they should be called such. As if saying "well others behave as bad as me" is some noble defense. Perhaps you should aqquaint yourself with the facts of how this occured, (remember those pesky facts) a bit before you start coming at me in defense of Tigger?

First of all, no I didnt. Mlheto brought up that you couldnt get code monkeys for the money that was being paid to the Friedens. I pointed out that at the Gateway 2000 show we thought of the Friedens as code monkeys. You dont understand the term, the reference or why we would think that, and apparently dont like monkeys either so you have been upset about this ever since. Every topic I post in after awhile you have to throw the monkeys into the conversation.
-Tig

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@fairlanefastback

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fairlanefastback wrote: You are well aware that it was unlikely that I was posting those legal definitions in favor or Amiga/Itec given all my other posts. And now you are insulting the kind of resilience someone from NYC has or not? LOL!

Since this topic is about the Itec-Hyperion contract (and the New York lawsuit resulting from it) and I dont think anyone has shown that Itec has not acted in good faith with regard to that contract or Hyperion itself, I either have to assume that you are posting that with regard to Itec (as I did) or that you are posting off topic about other contracts, etc. Should I have assumed you were posting off topic, and if so should I just assume that you will always be posting off topic when you post, or assume that no matter what information shows up you will believe that Hyperion is right or what? Resilient? Hmm, interesting choice of words for someone from NYC.
Are you going to go to the Itec-Hyperion trial and report back to us?
-Tig

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@Tigger

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why do you think Hyperion should not have to carry out the contract they signed with Itec?

Um, because Itec is a fake fraudulent, shell of a company, that Bill and Penti cooked up to scam poor little struggling Hyperion?

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Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @Tigger Quote: But when it comes to the actual case, and the back and forth of lawyers, its a much less likely chance to be confused Well your previous definitive statements on his behavior did not pan out. .... So I'll give you a 50/50.

You do realize we havent gone to court right, I think it funny we have first round goes to, and second goes to comments and of course we havent had the first day of the trial yet, we havent had discovery, etc, and of course this topic is about the new lawsuit and nothing has happened on it yet but Itecs filings. But I cant see how anyone can think Hyperion is going to win this case.
Quote:

Now here I'm going to have to lower your odds. One single entity, run by an American, doing the actual work, not getting the starting material they were promised vs. a slew of company names run by a Finn and a guy who treated a previous deposition admitted as evidence flippantly "fourteen billion" (Bill McEwen).

Now you are bringing McEwen into the Itec, McEwen has nothing to do with Itec. Itec bought the OS from Hyperion. They paid them money, they didnt receive anything. Thats going to be a pretty easy trial. The only defense they have is they paid too late, if thats true, they need to prove that, and send back all that money, and thats the best case for them, everything else is much worse and much more painful.
-Tig

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@dirigent

Reaction from intial usage by Tigger:

http://tinyurl.com/2jo7kz

He also felt a need to call them, in a derogatory sense, "the wonder twins" at that time. He also speaks to how he is sure that the Friedens have great disdain for our community, which he says they have shown possibly hundreds of times (on this site alone) and his displeasure at those who "lap it up" from them. He goes on to call Fleecy the "Sheeplord". Now he has a funny story about it, but still its a petty insult.

After all this we get the answer to the inquiry on why he earlier insulted the Friendens:

http://tinyurl.com/2uyb68

Yes he says he first used it at a conference. But as I said the story behind it came later, and again, like that should be an excuse. Whoop-de-do. It did not start as a twisting of an innocent drinking story as I said earlier.


Quote:

Calm it down a little, will you? When I read through these posts, I don't pay much attention to "direct" or "blunt" formulations,

Well then why are you worrying about my direct and blunt formulations? ;)

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@Tigger

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They paid them money, they didnt receive anything. Thats going to be a pretty easy trial.

Itec doesn't even exist. I doubt it ever "really" existed. There problem will be that there is no paper trail showing what ever happened to Itec.

That "shell" game that Bill said they weren't playing, yeah, it's caught up with him in a big way.

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@Tigger

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You do realize we havent gone to court right

Now when you start a post like this how do you expect to be reacted to? Or maybe you like it that way? Either way being courteous seems quite foreign to you.

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But I cant see how anyone can think Hyperion is going to win this case.

Well this is certainly bloody obvious Tigger, that you don't see how anyone can think differently than you, on a number of topics. I know you want to beat some sense into people from your perspective. But that dosen't make you right about the issues let alone your methodology to get your perspective across.

Quote:

Now you are bringing McEwen into the Itec, McEwen has nothing to do with Itec. Itec bought the OS from Hyperion.

If Itec is joined in the countersuit we'll have to wait to see what associations the jury makes. Since there will not be a bunch of clones of yourself there they may beg to differ.

Quote:

Thats going to be a pretty easy trial.

Now I will direct you back to your own comment of "You do realize we havent gone to court right, I think it funny we have first round goes to, and second goes to comments and of course we havent had the first day of the trial yet". Hell you've skipped right to the end, no rounds at all! Seems quite fitting given your latest little one-liner. ;)

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