@cgutjahr

Did it cost anyone any money? Bad faith would imply that it cost people/customers anything.

@cgutjahr

Quote:

That's hardly surprising.

Of course, I always assume good faith and you always assume bad faith...


Quote:

will be released in eight months

Initial estimate...

Quote:

we looked at it, but it didn't make sense

...proved to be overly optimistic.

@Overflow

Quote:

Did it cost anyone any money?

Exactly.

@pavlor:

Quote:

Of course, I always assume good faith

Only when it suits you. You have no problem assuming the "Amiga documents" author had evil intentions.

Quote:

Initial estimate... ...proved to be overly optimistic.

So, an initial estimate of "will be released in eight months" can be made "in good faith" without waiting for the actual hardware vendor's input?

@Overflow:

Quote:

Bad faith would imply...

No, it wouldn't.

At some point it feels like you're picking on a retarded person , which is cruel, so you withdraw from the conversation.
I needn't say more other than to question whether certain people remember this is an amiga site?
What matters here is how well our systems, and their software runs. Not how well Linux or MacOS or Windows, etc run. (almost ironic as that gap is much wider)

Im happy with my choices in that regard.
At least a 50:1 ratio for price/performance (at least in case of os4, mos isnt that extreme), and I can continue to use my favorite software, watch my favorite demos, etc better than I could on other options.

Additionally 3d gaming is leagues ahead, browsing more advanced (both the engine and versions of available tech under the hood), emulation varying degrees of better (depending on system being emulated (by the way thanks Chris, combo of RunInDosbox + dopus mag is great)).

Quite content with my amiga-oid hobby. x86 really opens a few doors to the NG hobby, and not just because raw cpu grunt is so much greater.


One last, completely off topic question though,.....
How can a persons literacy be so freaking awful? Browsers these days make it nigh on impossible without effort to be that bad at spelling, native tongue or not.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 14-Aug-2016 at 05:22 PM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 14-Aug-2016 at 05:14 PM.

@cgutjahr

Quote:

Only when it suits you. You have no problem assuming the "Amiga documents" author had evil intentions.

In this case, I assumed good faith, until proved otherwise (exactly which happened...).

Quote:

No, it wouldn't.

Yes, it would. There was no pre-pay scheme, no T-Shirt scam, simply no gain for Hyperion (far worse - net loss thanks to the futile port attempt). I wish all the bad faith ideas were done in this manner...

@pavlor

Quote:

In this case, I assumed good faith, until proved otherwise (exactly which happened...).

LOL. I'd love to see that "proof" one day (not here this thread is bad enough as it is). You didn't answer my question though:

So, an initial estimate of "will be released in eight months" can be made "in good faith" without waiting for the actual hardware vendor's input?

@Overflow

Quote:

Did it cost anyone any money?

It can damage Amiga resellers. For example if someone cancelled his SAM order to get laptop later. Or someone gets his hopes up but gets disappointed by waiting and quits.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix

Quote:

Or someone gets his hopes up but gets disappointed by waiting and quits.

thinking about it again, such people probably would simply quite earlier if they had not artificially kept their hopes up. would that make a difference? probably not that significant, they likely wouldnt buy anything in the meantime, just make some fuss on forums. do i see the pattern there? i dont know..

@cgutjahr

Quote:

I'd love to see that "proof" one day

I found this site looking for other sources for my pet-project. At first, I welcomed really rich library of links and other resources. However, digging further I clearly saw propaganda patterns in the text structure (I read and wrote too much propaganda myself to identify one...). This was red light for me, sign of something shady behind this entire site.

Quote:

So, an initial estimate of "will be released in eight months" can be made "in good faith" without waiting for the actual hardware vendor's input?

Why not? You have opportunity to build AmigaOne laptop, you expect it will be not that hard port, so you release this good news to the public. And then... you crash in the wall of reality.

A few points to clarify:

The netbook commercial evaluation was independently made by A-EON some significant time after Hyperion instructed Steven Solie to announce it in Amiwest.

A-EON established separate, independent contact with a China-based manufacturer, requested business quotations based on various volume scenarios and evaluated the commercials behind the quotations. Some preliminary email based negotiations ensued but after evaluating the financials behind it, I advised that we could not get anywhere near the original end-user retail prices quoted by Hyperion in their Amiwest announcement. As we could not match (or even come remotely close to) the "$500" end-user prices, and given the low performance of the netbook, we felt it was futile to pursue it further as we would have to retail at a much higher ticket price. Given that some time had elapsed since the Amiwest announcement, we also felt that the technology was also too slow to be desirable for the retail price.

_________________
Amiga Kit Amiga Store
Links: www.amigakit.com | New Products | A600GS

@pavlor

Quote:

I read and wrote too much propaganda myself to identify one.

no wonder, you still keep at it.. ;)

Quote:

Why not? You have opportunity to build AmigaOne laptop, you expect it will be not that hard port, so you release this good news to the public. And then... you crash in the wall of reality.

if you (or even your predecessors) are doing it repeatedly, with no shame, finaly the question arraives, if they are doing it on a purpose.

@wawa

Quote:

no wonder, you still keep at it.. ;)

I stay quite civil (and sincere) there. Best propaganda shouldn´t be obvious...

@amigakit

Quote:

The netbook commercial evaluation was independently made by A-EON some significant time after Hyperion instructed Steven Solie to announce it in Amiwest.

my impression as well. as i saw it, aeon stepped forward and evaluated the option independently, after hyperion made their proud announcements and subsequently silently resigned on the realisation of the project, is is their custom. perhaps they even begged for help themselves. then aeon considered if they can provide such behind the scenes, before the fiasko becomes evident even to the blindest supporters. the rest of your post says it all, not hard to guess, but thx for clarification and honesty, i dont see a reason to doubt it.

@pavlor

Quote:

I stay quite civil (and sincere) there. Best propaganda shouldn´t be obvious...

we have been a bit too well instructed in that. however admitting it doesnt make the problem disappear, only muds the waters, so you might think to get away with it this time. the thing is the intelligent observer remembers a smoke screen and where it was, when its about to be used again.

@wawa

Quote:

however admitting it doesnt make the problem disappear,

We all push our POV on Amiga forums, it would be hypocritical to claim otherwise. However, really profesional propaganda is rare there (at least on the level I´m used to). Lame attempts (like derailing of OS4 threads...) are too obvious to be successful in the long-term. As I see it, goal of most propaganda wannabies there is only to scare members of opposite faction. Which may be logical strategy in real world, but in the end suicidal in such small market like Amiga. The less users in general, the less potential users for your faction.

@pavlor

Quote:

really profesional propaganda is rare there

no wonder, what would a professional propagandist have to win here. i mean a professional looks for salary, am i right or am i right?

Quote:

As I see it, goal of most propaganda wannabies there is only to scare members of opposite faction.

yeah, you need to support everybody who claims to be the true "amiga", otherwise the developers may go away, the "classic" are obsolete, if you dont upgrade now itll be too late;)..

..sure..

on the other hand: continuing like that wlll lead to slow but certain decline of what remains of the platform, except the genuine option, which is what happened and what still happens now.

Quote:

Which may be logical strategy in real world, but in the end suicidal in such small market like Amiga. The less users in general, the less potential users for your faction.

i wonder, is there some master plan?

Last edited by wawa on 14-Aug-2016 at 06:36 PM.

@wawa

As Hyperion is a separate company, with their own business plans, A-EON were not privy to any prior private discussions they had with the manufacturer or to how they evaluated the end-user retail price cited in their Amiwest announcement. It is possible that they were quoted on much larger volumes than we requested- we only requested volumes based on what was feasible for A-EON to finance relative for the production run. It is also possible that the Chinese manufacturer raised the pricing when we enquired. Based on the financials we evaluated, it was not commercially viable to proceed for the reasons I explained.

_________________
Amiga Kit Amiga Store
Links: www.amigakit.com | New Products | A600GS

@wawa

Quote:

no wonder, what would a professional propagandist have to win here. i mean a professional looks for salary, am i right or am i right?

Well, I never wrote propaganda for money. Something I should start think about...

Quote:

yeah, you need to support everybody who claims to be the true "amiga", otherwise the developers may go away, the "classic" are obsolete, if you dont upgrade now itll be too late;)..

Just stay civil and don´t bark on others who don´t share your opinion. At least this is my intention on this forum.

Quote:

i wonder, is there some master plan?

Certainly NOT! To be fair, Amiga users are sometimes not much sane people. Do you believe some "True Amigans" waged edit war against me on the AmigaOne Wikipedia article, because I reverted "AmigaOne is Amiga" in the introduction? It is not that hard to find Amiga user, who thinks his way is the one and only true and others are scourge of our platform. Such people are among all factions.

@amigakit

I'm curious: what made you/them think it was possible to make a 500€ laptop in the first place? I mean, confidently enough to announce it publically?

_________________
Amiga Forum - Sweden's best Amiga Magazine

My MorphOS Blog

"Free speech includes other peoples right to offend you."